Game Thread: WAS @ POR - Tue 3/22/11

[jimij]

Even doing the same things over and over I just post the stats and ask how is it that he's top-10 in all those categories? Yep, box scores alone IS what I'm going by.

Given how pathetic this team has been this year I don't think leading them in anything means a whole heck of a lot especially when there aren't many options for leading them in some of those big man dominated categories. Guys can stand out statistically on bad teams but that doesn't make them good players it just means that they have dreck around them and get some minutes.

I agree that being on a different team and system could be wonderful for McGee.

At this point all I'm looking for when I watch them play is to see consistent effort and improvement from the beginning to the end of the season. Unfortunately with McGee, I've seen neither of those things.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

jimij, this team is young.

Wall is more responsible for a lot of losses and McGee less responsible. Wall's athleticism gives him good assist stats and good points, but he's not ready at 20. My big gripe about this board is Wall is the guy who loses games right now. I just pointed out that Andre Miller, Elton Brand, and Lamar Odom were on a similar team at similar stages of their careers. All those guys are very good players. They were physcally talented then. However, relative to better and more experienced pros they got their butts handed to them just like Wall, McGee, Young, etc are getting theirs now.

The phenomenon of all faults pointing to McGee and the criticism I take for pointing out the facts about McGee are just something to debate about. I won't convince anybody with a zillion stats from 82games, basketball-reference, historical perspective, or the fact that I know what I'm talking about.

McGee is really good but the one awe shucks cancels out the ten attaboys. He makes extremely stupid plays at times--and that from what I saw when I was watching the games closely.

REGARDLESS, I have seen this guy do so many little things right and get absolutely no love from Sanders and no respect from the fans. It is only fitting that he didn't win the dunk contest. He's that kind of guy who busts his tail with effort, has all the creativity in the world, yet is loathed and despised from folks who like performers who stay in between the margins.

I like McGee.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I think the point is most expect Seraphin and Crawford to be raw, and rightfully so because they're rookies getting their feet wet. Mcgee on the other hand has had his time to grow and shouldn't be playing like a deer in headlights anymore. And at this point in this hellacious season patience isn't something the board as a whole is high on. He's become the whipping boy rightfully so or not. There's been a lot to hate about this year, and his failed attempts at highlight reel plays and showboating when he rarely pulls them off pulls the spotlight and all that negative attention toward him.

You've expressed your apathy toward this season CCJ, and I feel the same way about McGee at this point.
We can't trade him right now, and he's not holding back the progress of any promising big man behind him. So let him play, keep reminding him his role on the team when he goes bonkers and you want to punch him in his face... or realistically the upper chest, and keep your fingers crossed....

I feel the same way about Flip. Play the young dudes and tank away. I'm not mad at Flip.

If the Wizards want to keep him next season, go right ahead. They're still young and in theory he's not making any players worse. I'm apathetic about the whole team now.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/WAS/2011.html

Javale McGee is first on the Wizards in DRtg, WS, DWS, DReb%, TReb%, Blk%,
Javale McGee is second on the Wizards in ORtg, OWS, eFG%, TS%,

In TEN STATISTICAL CATEGORIES, includng the ones that correlate to wins, Javale is first or second.

In 1503 minutes with McGee the Wizards are +6.5 compared to the 1405 minutes (most with Blatche at C).

http://www.82games.com/1011/10WAS20.HTM

given what you have stated, perhaps you could offer an explanation
as to why we have the 3rd/4th worst record in the league and might
possibly not even win 20 games with this paragon of statistical
wonderfulness having been a constant throughout much of the season.

One reason is Flip plays Blatche at C instead of sticking with McGee at least 35 minutes. Another reason is that Booker's minutes at PF have been a lot more effective than Blatche's, but he's seen few minutes there until recently. Flip didn't play the paragon enough and he played my pariah of choice too much.

The team is without Young now; but with Nick, Wall, Booker, McGee, and either a healthy Lewis/Howard/Martin as the five on the court this team was significantly better. A major reason the team is so bad is that during the competitive phase of the season, Flip Saunders made a point of featuring his least efficient player (in terms of ORtg, eFG%, TS%) as his go to big man. Flip/Andray was bad, dobrojim.

The simple answer is the Lord giveth, the Lord taketh away.
All the physical talent in the world and (almost) none of the knowledge of
how to consistently use it to bolster a winning effort.

True. That's why I posted above about the Clippers with Brand, Odom, Andre Miller, Quentin Richardson, and Parks. That was talent without knowledge of how to win due to youth and inexperience on display. Same with the Wizards. It's not just McGee who's clueless.

Those stats would suggest that if we could only play JM 40 min
a game, all would be well. I think the vast majority of us who have
watched this trainwreck night in and night out would have a different
take on it. He has the potential to be an unbelievable player
but for whatever reason, cannot play that well from moment to moment.
I would not be surprised if Seraphin beat him out for the starters job
next year. Maybe that would wake up JM to the fact of what he needs
to do.

All wouldn't be well but it'd be a darn sight better than what Flip coached it to earlier, when things mattered.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Yeah, give-up on McGee, other coaches appreciate McGee.... on-balance.

“Unbelievable. I mean, he defends the basket,” Portland Coach Nate McMillan said about McGee. “He is a high-wire act. McGee is a beast in the paint. He blocks some shots. He can intimidate. We got him in foul trouble early and he had to go to the bench. I thought that allowed us to really get to the basket.”

If Ernie were to put the word-out that McGee was available, his phone would be ringing off the hook.

I kind of hope McGee is traded.

It's really draining for me to like the Wizards 40 years and they suck. It's draining for me to see a player I didn't like at first, who I've really come to appreciate now be pretty much vilified. Each and every mistake this guy makes it's like "well he's been in the league three years!!!!" from several posters. "He's never gonna get it!". Forget Odom's first four of five years. Forget Frye's first five years. Forget Rasheed throwing towels in Portland in about his fifth year. Forget Pau Gasol being a very soft big man his first 6 or 7 years in the league. Forget the Wizards giving up Ben Wallace when he was older than McGee is now. Forget Javale being statistically on the same progession as Chandler and Camby. Forget that Booker's older than McGee and so is Hamady ...

Forget Nate McMillan's comments. Or those made by Barkley, Dwight Howard, Chris Paul, Coach K and Team USA, who cares ...

Just trade McGee.

closg00, we would be better off rooting for him as a member of another team. (Which would be a winning team, too, most likely)

[Rafael122]

Team should sell high. Ernie should have the video department do some sort of highlight reel thing for McGee, showcasing his skills, blocking shots, rebounding, saluting. All that stuff, and just send it to the rest of the teams in the league.

[fishercob]

Yeah, give-up on McGee, other coaches appreciate McGee.... on-balance.

“Unbelievable. I mean, he defends the basket,” Portland Coach Nate McMillan said about McGee. “He is a high-wire act. McGee is a beast in the paint. He blocks some shots. He can intimidate. We got him in foul trouble early and he had to go to the bench. I thought that allowed us to really get to the basket.”

If Ernie were to put the word-out that McGee was available, his phone would be ringing off the hook.

I kind of hope McGee is traded.

It's really draining for me to like the Wizards 40 years and they suck. It's draining for me to see a player I didn't like at first, who I've really come to appreciate now be pretty much vilified. Each and every mistake this guy makes it's like "well he's been in the league three years!!!!" from several posters. "He's never gonna get it!". Forget Odom's first four of five years. Forget Frye's first five years. Forget Rasheed throwing towels in Portland in about his fifth year. Forget Pau Gasol being a very soft big man his first 6 or 7 years in the league. Forget the Wizards giving up Ben Wallace when he was older than McGee is now. Forget that Booker's older than McGee and so is Hamady ...

Forget Nate McMillan's comments. Or those made by Barkley, Dwight Howard, Chris Paul, Coach K ...

Just trade McGee. closg00, we would be better off rooting for him as a member of another team. (Which would be a winning team, too, most likely)

CCJ, you need a hug. Remember, that just as you use these parts as an outlet and admittedly direct a lot of anger at Flip -- whether completely fair or not -- a lot of people are venting their frustrations with McGee.

Here's why you needn't worry. Ted's in charge, and he's patient. McGee is going to get every opportunity here to become a winning player of substance in this league. A lot of McGee's -- and the WIzards whole team's -- play is ugly on a day to day basis. But that's what rebuilding looks like. It's not just a happy linear progression where everyone gets a little better every day. Guys struggle, the team is bad, etc.

Javale's not going anywhere, nor should he anytime soon.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

fisher, first of all, Aloha my friend. You are a class act.

In all the back and forth, I've learned where I was unfairly biased against Flip:

--YOU pointed out the improvements of Young and McGee under Saunders and very correctly pointed out I can't have it both ways. I can't hate on Flip for "ruining" or "underplaying guys to their detriment" when in fact they've improved. So, thanks to you I point out that Saunders isn't making the guys worse.

--Another poster I truly respect, Nivek, pointed out in his blog that Saunders plays McGee more when McGee plays well and he plays McGee less when McGee plays poorly. That one blew me away. I thought Flip HATED McGee. Guess not. Wrong as heck there. Yes, I've vented unfairly at times on Flip.

--Further, young teams lose games and players make bad plays. That's not the coach's fault.

I have very strong opinions. However, if I'm wrong I'm wrong. Happens. I point out my faults and will even apologize for not getting it sooner. I did get the message about those things pertaining to Saunders, and move on with another point of view. That's all I can do is learn from mistakes and grow from there with a more enlightened viewpoint.

For folks who vent on McGee. I feel you. We all need to vent. I just put out what I think contradicts what they're saying.

It's cool if there's no common ground.

[dobrojim]

snip
McGee COULD BE good but the TEN awe shucks cancel out the ONE attaboys. He makes extremely stupid plays at times--and that from what I saw when I was watching the games closely.

[snip]
I like McGee.

fixed


I like McGee too and have never called for him to be traded

just increasingly frustrated by his lack of progress and making
the same mistakes repeatedly.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

You've never been in a classroom with special needs kids, jim. Have you?

[Illuminaire]

Implying that Javale is a special needs kid does not really do much service to your position about his current worth as a basketball player.

[jimij]

CCJ - I guess my biggest problem with Javale is that he's the type of guy I would never want to play "with" on my team. He doesn't pass, the minute he gets the ball he's going to the basket with no thought to how he might get there, he ignores his own man on D and just watches the ball so he can go after blocks and he continues to goaltend at an alarming rate without a care in the world of whether or not it helps the team.

I think for me the straw that broke the camels back was that I was sitting (for once) close to the court at the T-Wolves game a couple of weeks ago and not five minutes into the first quarter, Javale gets the ball on the wing and is double teamed and passed it out to Mo Evans b/c he'd given up his dribble. He then went to the post but by that time Evans had swung the ball. Javale proceeded to loudly cuss him out for not passing him the rock. To think that he's got a sense of entitlement that he HAS to get the ball when he goes to the post and can cuss out a vet who's new to the team just didn't sit right for me.

What it comes down to is, I'd rather play and root for a guy who I can respect and I've lost my respect for McGee. He probably will turn into an above average player at some point, I just don't want to wait for the light bulb to come on because I plain out just don't like the guy.