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Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 4

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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 4 

Post#981 » by Consequence » Thu Mar 24, 2011 3:51 pm

spade57 wrote:
Consequence wrote:Cleveland is at a different rebuilding stage, though. Yes, our team stinks, but we have more young pieces playing key roles than they do, since we sucked enough the last couple of years to have lottery picks already added. Gilbert took those contracts on to accelerate their rebuild by getting more young players in the system, which is great, but with out situation, it wasn't as much of a no-brainer to take on big, useless money like Cleveland did. Will the 9th pick in this draft be worth the tradeoff of having to pay Baron for the rest of his contract and having to give him significant minutes if you want him to be tradeable again? I think yes, but there is a tradeoff there that can be dependent on an individual team's situation. I would have liked to have seen something like that trade done for us as well, but I also understand why BC felt that the benefit of having a clearer salary cap picture was worth it.


Yeah I understand. But like you said, it would of really helped us out if B.C was able to get a deal like that done. Hell I'd even take on Rip for their pick.

Not disagreeing either, but if we took on Rip, we'd have less minutes for DeMar, Sonny, JJ, etc to develop with. If we were going to just sit Rip, we'd have a malcontent on our hands with no value to try to trade again, so we'd be eating the whole contract. And if we had played him, who knows, he may have made us better and messed with our own pick. As someone else said a few posts ago, it may have been better to just suck again next year without having that contract on the books.
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 4 

Post#982 » by TheRealDeal » Thu Mar 24, 2011 4:06 pm

raptorsnation_5 wrote:
spade57 wrote:
SDM wrote:
That's what happens when you have a private owner. When they're struggling, they'll still spend money, knowing that cap space can be turned into a player and a pick easily. Think Mark Cuban would let us treadmill for a decade?


haha :lol: your right. But yeah. A new owener /majority owner is needed asap

I read on Toronto Star I think, some local Toronto Man wants to own the majority MLSE as a community. We all buy 1% of the shares for $1000. He says some team in the NHL does it and hes trying to get MLSE's approval. I dont know how likely it is but I would definitely be a part of this if it happened.


it's annoying that people continue to derail this thread but this idea reminded me of the current Superbowl champs.

The Packers are the only non-profit, community-owned franchise in American professional sports major leagues. Typically, a team is owned by one person, partnership, or corporate entity, i.e., a "team owner." The lack of a dominant owner has been stated as one of the reasons the Green Bay Packers have never been moved from the city of Green Bay, a city of only 102,313 people as of the 2000 census.

By comparison, the typical NFL city has a population in the millions or higher hundred-thousands. The Packers, however, have long had a large following throughout Wisconsin and parts of the Midwest


although...

Green Bay is the only team with this form of ownership structure in the NFL; such ownership is in direct violation of current league rules, which stipulate a limit of 32 owners of one team and one of those owners having a minimum 30% stake. However, the Packers corporation was grandfathered when the NFL's current ownership policy was established in the 1980s, and are thus exempt. The Packers are also the only American major-league sports franchise to release its financial balance sheet every year.
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 4 

Post#983 » by God Squad » Thu Mar 24, 2011 4:07 pm

Consequence wrote:
spade57 wrote:
Consequence wrote:Cleveland is at a different rebuilding stage, though. Yes, our team stinks, but we have more young pieces playing key roles than they do, since we sucked enough the last couple of years to have lottery picks already added. Gilbert took those contracts on to accelerate their rebuild by getting more young players in the system, which is great, but with out situation, it wasn't as much of a no-brainer to take on big, useless money like Cleveland did. Will the 9th pick in this draft be worth the tradeoff of having to pay Baron for the rest of his contract and having to give him significant minutes if you want him to be tradeable again? I think yes, but there is a tradeoff there that can be dependent on an individual team's situation. I would have liked to have seen something like that trade done for us as well, but I also understand why BC felt that the benefit of having a clearer salary cap picture was worth it.


Yeah I understand. But like you said, it would of really helped us out if B.C was able to get a deal like that done. Hell I'd even take on Rip for their pick.

Not disagreeing either, but if we took on Rip, we'd have less minutes for DeMar, Sonny, JJ, etc to develop with. If we were going to just sit Rip, we'd have a malcontent on our hands with no value to try to trade again, so we'd be eating the whole contract. And if we had played him, who knows, he may have made us better and messed with our own pick. As someone else said a few posts ago, it may have been better to just suck again next year without having that contract on the books.


Your right about minutes. But I think Sonny is gonna walk anyways, So I'd still consider doing it. Plus I think RIP is still better than Sonny although Rips clearly lost a step.

But yea that makes sense.
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 4 

Post#984 » by God Squad » Thu Mar 24, 2011 4:10 pm

Hmm not a bad idea. I'm just not sure about having so many voices. And I would need to see who's going to be the majority owner because wouldn't they be calling the shots? Anyways I still think i'm leaning towards a private owner. I've seen to many success from other teams.
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 4 

Post#985 » by gerrit4 » Thu Mar 24, 2011 4:12 pm

I've always been a big fan of drafting 2 lotto players at once (if we could get another) and letting them grow together like Roy/Aldridge, Green/Durant etc. Something like Irving/Williams or Irving/Barnes would be pretty great for us.

On another note, I'm still intrigued by Kanter. Have we ever had a big man with solid low post footwork? That seems to be a solid skill that translates into the pros.
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 4 

Post#986 » by Reignman » Thu Mar 24, 2011 4:14 pm

New top 5:

Irving
Barnes
Jones
Knight
Val

Undecided:
Kanter


Would trade if they were consensus BPA at our spot:
Sullinger
D Will
Walker



Basically, I'm going with high ceiling guys with good size that have potential on both sides of the ball. I've eliminated all tweeners and undersized guys with P Jones being the exception because of his ELITE length and athleticism.

I think this might be pretty close to my final picks. Hopefully the draft workouts and combines shed a bit more light on Kanter's upside, Val's skill set in the NBA, Knight's PG skills and whether P Jones has a defensive position in the L.

I'm not too concerned with Irving / Barnes.
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 4 

Post#987 » by TheRealDeal » Thu Mar 24, 2011 4:24 pm

gerrit4 wrote:I've always been a big fan of drafting 2 lotto players at once (if we could get another) and letting them grow together like Roy/Aldridge, Green/Durant etc. Something like Irving/Williams or Irving/Barnes would be pretty great for us.

On another note, I'm still intrigued by Kanter. Have we ever had a big man with solid low post footwork? That seems to be a solid skill that translates into the pros.


I'm intrigued by Kanter as well. He's not my ideal pick but I could hear BC spinning his selection perfectly.

"Kanter is a true center who can bang inside, rebound and block shots. He holds the record for most points scored in a Hoops Summit game, and his style of play will complement Bargnani's very well."

There are plenty of examples where Colangelo bought low for unproven talent. If we end up in the 5-6 range and Enes drops then we'd have to be interested. I wouldn't be very happy if we picked him top 3 though.
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 4 

Post#988 » by 5DOM » Thu Mar 24, 2011 4:27 pm

I would be happy if we drafted Barnes with the #5 pick, but what makes Barnes a high ceiling player? He's very much a (freshman year) Luol Deng like player from what I've seen

They have/had similar playing styles, skill sets both offensively and defensively, bodies, athleticism, work ethic and basketball IQ with Deng being the better player. Mind you Deng was at the same age as Barnes when he played for Duke.

I think Barnes is more of a safe pick than a high ceiling pick because a lot of things he's already good at can translate well to the NBA but things he's not good at are harder/impossible to develop (like the first step). If you meant higher ceiling compared to other players in the draft, I'd agree with you though. I honestly don't see many high ceiling picks this year except Perry Jones and perhaps Brandon Knight
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 4 

Post#989 » by mirrornick » Thu Mar 24, 2011 4:28 pm

At what time is the Duke vs Arizona game tonight?
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 4 

Post#990 » by 5DOM » Thu Mar 24, 2011 4:28 pm

mirrornick wrote:At what time is the Duke vs Arizona game tonight?


9:45 on CBS

really excited
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 4 

Post#991 » by bboyskinnylegs » Thu Mar 24, 2011 4:33 pm

Yeah I really like the idea of picking up another top 10 pick. We get another shot at Kyrie like Cleveland/Utah, and there's some good players we can add to our team. If we could land two of Barnes/P.Jones/Kanter/Valanciunas, I think we'd be looking great moving forward. Even if we get one of those 4 along with a Sullinger/Knight/Walker/Williams/T.Jones/Fredette, I think that would be pretty solid.

We dont have a lot of options to get ourselves another top 10 pick though. Trading Bargs for bad contracts + a pick could get it done.
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 4 

Post#992 » by Reignman » Thu Mar 24, 2011 4:34 pm

5DOM wrote:I would be happy if we drafted Barnes with the #5 pick, but what makes Barnes a high ceiling player? He's very much a (freshman year) Luol Deng like player from what I've seen

They have/had similar playing styles, skill sets both offensively and defensively, bodies, athleticism, work ethic and basketball IQ with Deng being the better player. Mind you Deng was at the same age as Barnes when he played for Duke.

I think Barnes is more of a safe pick than a high ceiling pick because a lot of things he's already good at can translate well to the NBA but things he's not good at are harder/impossible to develop (like the first step)


I think Barnes' game is going to greatly benefit from having more space in the NBA. He's more of a footwork guy longterm than an explosive off-the-dribble player. I think he needs to tighten up his handle a bit and he needs to do a better job of drawing contact, both of which shouldn't be an issue with his work ethic.

And considering his defensive game and rebounding are already pretty good, I think he's a high-ceiling player when comparing to other players in this draft class.

Really, there's only a couple of unlimited ceiling guys in this draft - PJones, Val and Knight. I don't see many guys beyond those 3 that really have a potentially ridiculous ceiling.
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 4 

Post#993 » by Comeatme_Bro » Thu Mar 24, 2011 4:38 pm

Reignman wrote:
5DOM wrote:I would be happy if we drafted Barnes with the #5 pick, but what makes Barnes a high ceiling player? He's very much a (freshman year) Luol Deng like player from what I've seen

They have/had similar playing styles, skill sets both offensively and defensively, bodies, athleticism, work ethic and basketball IQ with Deng being the better player. Mind you Deng was at the same age as Barnes when he played for Duke.

I think Barnes is more of a safe pick than a high ceiling pick because a lot of things he's already good at can translate well to the NBA but things he's not good at are harder/impossible to develop (like the first step)


I think Barnes' game is going to greatly benefit from having more space in the NBA. He's more of a footwork guy longterm than an explosive off-the-dribble player. I think he needs to tighten up his handle a bit and he needs to do a better job of drawing contact, both of which shouldn't be an issue with his work ethic.

And considering his defensive game and rebounding are already pretty good, I think he's a high-ceiling player when comparing to other players in this draft class.

Really, there's only a couple of unlimited ceiling guys in this draft - PJones, Val and Knight. I don't see many guys beyond those 3 that really have a potentially ridiculous ceiling.


No way Knight has a higher ceiling than Irving.
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 4 

Post#994 » by dagger » Thu Mar 24, 2011 4:41 pm

Comeatme_Bro wrote:
Reignman wrote:
5DOM wrote:I would be happy if we drafted Barnes with the #5 pick, but what makes Barnes a high ceiling player? He's very much a (freshman year) Luol Deng like player from what I've seen

They have/had similar playing styles, skill sets both offensively and defensively, bodies, athleticism, work ethic and basketball IQ with Deng being the better player. Mind you Deng was at the same age as Barnes when he played for Duke.

I think Barnes is more of a safe pick than a high ceiling pick because a lot of things he's already good at can translate well to the NBA but things he's not good at are harder/impossible to develop (like the first step)


I think Barnes' game is going to greatly benefit from having more space in the NBA. He's more of a footwork guy longterm than an explosive off-the-dribble player. I think he needs to tighten up his handle a bit and he needs to do a better job of drawing contact, both of which shouldn't be an issue with his work ethic.

And considering his defensive game and rebounding are already pretty good, I think he's a high-ceiling player when comparing to other players in this draft class.

Really, there's only a couple of unlimited ceiling guys in this draft - PJones, Val and Knight. I don't see many guys beyond those 3 that really have a potentially ridiculous ceiling.


No way Knight has a higher ceiling than Irving.

Actually, he might. Irving does a lot of things well, but nothing really great. He's a cerebral type, kind of a plus version of Jose. That's not bad, really, but Knight has the athleticism to be even better - or be a Bledsoe clone, which is less good.
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 4 

Post#995 » by 5DOM » Thu Mar 24, 2011 4:44 pm

While I wouldn't draft Knight over Irving, I do think Knight has more room to grow simply because of his athleticism and body
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 4 

Post#996 » by Reignman » Thu Mar 24, 2011 4:46 pm

Comeatme_Bro wrote:
Reignman wrote:
5DOM wrote:I would be happy if we drafted Barnes with the #5 pick, but what makes Barnes a high ceiling player? He's very much a (freshman year) Luol Deng like player from what I've seen

They have/had similar playing styles, skill sets both offensively and defensively, bodies, athleticism, work ethic and basketball IQ with Deng being the better player. Mind you Deng was at the same age as Barnes when he played for Duke.

I think Barnes is more of a safe pick than a high ceiling pick because a lot of things he's already good at can translate well to the NBA but things he's not good at are harder/impossible to develop (like the first step)


I think Barnes' game is going to greatly benefit from having more space in the NBA. He's more of a footwork guy longterm than an explosive off-the-dribble player. I think he needs to tighten up his handle a bit and he needs to do a better job of drawing contact, both of which shouldn't be an issue with his work ethic.

And considering his defensive game and rebounding are already pretty good, I think he's a high-ceiling player when comparing to other players in this draft class.

Really, there's only a couple of unlimited ceiling guys in this draft - PJones, Val and Knight. I don't see many guys beyond those 3 that really have a potentially ridiculous ceiling.


No way Knight has a higher ceiling than Irving.


Don't get me wrong, Kyrie Irving is the prize of this draft; however, if we're talking about unlimited ceilings then the criteria changes quite a bit.

Put it this way, if looked at all the top 10 prospects and assumed that they would hit their ceiling then you have to look at guys like Knight, PJ and Val because they all have the size/length/athleticism to be monsters. The others don't really have that.

Now I'm not saying these guys will reach their full potential, just that they have really high ceilings.
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 4 

Post#997 » by God Squad » Thu Mar 24, 2011 4:49 pm

bboyskinnylegs wrote:Yeah I really like the idea of picking up another top 10 pick. We get another shot at Kyrie like Cleveland/Utah, and there's some good players we can add to our team. If we could land two of Barnes/P.Jones/Kanter/Valanciunas, I think we'd be looking great moving forward. Even if we get one of those 4 along with a Sullinger/Knight/Walker/Williams/T.Jones/Fredette, I think that would be pretty solid.

We dont have a lot of options to get ourselves another top 10 pick though. Trading Bargs for bad contracts + a pick could get it done.


I'd do it..Depending on the return.
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 4 

Post#998 » by SDM » Thu Mar 24, 2011 4:50 pm

I like Derrick Williams a lot. A LOT.
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 4 

Post#999 » by Reignman » Thu Mar 24, 2011 4:54 pm

SDM wrote:I like Derrick Williams a lot. A LOT.


He scares me a lot. A LOT. Seems like a classic tweener. Defensively he doesn't really have a position in the NBA and I've learnt that if you don't have a defensive position you'll never reach great heights.

Think Beasley or Bargnani, guys that have some amazing offensive skills but because of their defense (or lack there of) they'll never truly become high impact players.

You need to have a clear cut defensive position and D-Will is the guy in the top 10 that's further than anyone else from having a defensive position.

P Jones and T Jones also fall into that category.
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 4 

Post#1000 » by Qdogg17 » Thu Mar 24, 2011 4:55 pm

IMO, the Raps are in a very good position:

High draft pick
A lot of capspace(24 mil according to hoopshype)
young players with potential

If they draft the best available PG (Irving, Knight, Walker) they should be set.

They can overpay for a center and SF (DeAndre Jordan, Wilson Chandler)

Bring back some vets for depth and leadership on the cheap (Reggie Evans or Joey Dorsey, Anthony Parker or Mo Pete)

Roster:

C- Jordan/Davis/Alabi
PF- Bargnani/A.Johnson/Evans
SF- Chandler/J.Johnson/Kleiza
SG- Derozan/Barbosa/Parker
PG- Irving/Bayless/Calderon

When Kleiza comes back, they can look to move Calderon with J.Johnson and/or a future pick.

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