Prospect Watch Thread

[Krapinsky]

If only Darko as a player had Howo's ego as an evaluator. T-Wolves would be going places!!

[horaceworthy]

If only Darko as a player had Howo's ego as an evaluator. T-Wolves would be going places!!

I never cease to get a kick out of you, although I'm a little disappointed that we reached the point in the conversation where you run out of things to say so quickly. I actually did enjoy this jibe, got me to chuckle. I also enjoy that the premise of the discussion started with the premise that one only had Irving at #1 with a clear separation if they were a DX fanboy, and then quickly moved to someone has to have an ego big enough to save Darko's career if they actually have their own opinion.

I guess I've got a healthy enough ego for some schlub who watches too much college hoops, not enough to save Darko from himself, but it'd be nice if it was.

[AQuintus]

I also enjoy that the premise of the discussion started with the premise that one only had Irving at #1 with a clear separation if they were a DX fanboy,

I find this especially funny since last week he was hyping up Kemba Walker based largely on the fact that DX likes him.

[Krapinsky]

I also enjoy that the premise of the discussion started with the premise that one only had Irving at #1 with a clear separation if they were a DX fanboy,

I find this especially funny since last week he was hyping up Kemba Walker based largely on the fact that DX likes him.

You're not following, but I appreciate that you are so willing to take sides so quickly. First of all, I was using DX tweets to hype him to engage discussion. I believe I stated "allow me to play devil's advocate". Second, I wasn't calling anyone a fanboy. My point was what I think is obvious and that is the majority of draft opinions found on realgm are formed (or at least heavily influenced from DX). I wasn't targeting HoWo at all. I am also heavily influenced by what DX thinks, yes.

Second, I merely attempted to point out that other guys that talk to scouts disagreed with DX. Then HoWo sort waived that off by basically saying his opinion was greater than Fords, draft.net's, and sometimes even DX. So I made a snarki response.

[Krapinsky]

If only Darko as a player had Howo's ego as an evaluator. T-Wolves would be going places!!

I never cease to get a kick out of you, although I'm a little disappointed that we reached the point in the conversation where you run out of things to say so quickly. I actually did enjoy this jibe, got me to chuckle. I also enjoy that the premise of the discussion started with the premise that one only had Irving at #1 with a clear separation if they were a DX fanboy, and then quickly moved to someone has to have an ego big enough to save Darko's career if they actually have their own opinion.

I guess I've got a healthy enough ego for some schlub who watches too much college hoops, not enough to save Darko from himself, but it'd be nice if it was.

Not much I can offer to rebut "meh" those opinions don't mean much to me. Though, I didn't realize you wanted to further engage on Irving as a prospect. My original point was solely that I don't think Irving has distinguished himself like players of yesteryears. He seems solid all around, but not amazing at anything, so I guess I sort of agree with Ford's point of view on him more than DX's. My main criticism on him is that there aren't very many elite point guards at his size anymore in the NBA. The one's that are his size, or smaller, like Paul and Nash, seem to be much better facilitators. The one's that are more pure scorer's like Rose and Westbrook, are quicker, bigger, and more athletic. To me he just lacks a differentiating quality that most NBA elite point guards have.

[LordBaldric]

JIMMER!

[horaceworthy]

Second, I merely attempted to point out that other guys that talk to scouts disagreed with DX. Then HoWo sort waived that off by basically saying his opinion was greater than Fords, draft.net's, and sometimes even DX. So I made a snarki response.

All I said was that I trust what I see Irving do more than I trust what I read on the internet. I'm somewhat flabbergasted that this was the conclusion you jumped to.

[Krapinsky]

Second, I merely attempted to point out that other guys that talk to scouts disagreed with DX. Then HoWo sort waived that off by basically saying his opinion was greater than Fords, draft.net's, and sometimes even DX. So I made a snarki response.

All I said was that I trust what I see Irving do more than I trust what I read on the internet. I'm somewhat flabbergasted that this was the conclusion you jumped to.

I'm flabbergasted how you thought that was a flabbergasting conclusion to jump to. Perhaps there's some confusion here. Maybe we seem to be talking about two differnt things -- or just different ways of gauging what the consensus is on where a player's draft stock is? You seem to be inputting your personal opinion on Irving's player evaluation in rebuttal of what I think his actual draft stock is (which to me is his value. see above why CLE would not trade 3+8 for him). To reiterate, I wasn't originally talking about what I thought of Irving as a player, but what his draft stock is.

[horaceworthy]

'm flabbergasted how you thought that was a flabbergasting conclusion to jump to. Perhaps there's some confusion here. Maybe we seem to be talking about two differnt things -- or just different ways of gauging what the consensus is on where a player's draft stock is? You seem to be inputting your personal opinion on Irving's player evaluation in rebuttal of what I think his actual draft stock is (which to me is his value. see above why CLE would not trade 3+8 for him). To reiterate, I wasn't originally talking about what I thought of Irving as a player, but what his draft stock is.

I already agreed Cleveland wouldn't trade 3 and 8 for him.

]I agree that Cleveland likely wouldn't make a 3 and 8 deal for him, [b]but his presence atop the draft board isn't a DX creation.

I wasn't disagreeing with the notion that there's debate out there (there should be, front offices wouldn't be doing their jobs if there wasn't), just with a small portion of the post

Here are the statements I took issue with, because it's entirely possible to come away with the impression that Irving has the inside track on the #1 spot due to how he's played rather than what's been written about him.

DX loves Irving and that's where the he's the absolute clear cut #1 thing is coming from.

[=quote="Krapinsky"]TO reiterate, the only people I've read that had him separated as the "clear cut #1" are DX and their loyal readers.[/quote]

Hopefully that clears up the confusion.

[Krapinsky]

Yes that helps, thank you.

On the issue you took offense to. That's fine if you have seen him play a lot and agree with DX. The thing is, and what I think my point was, is the majority of people on realgm have not seen Irving play as much as you or DX. A lot of people, like myself at times, tend to simply use DX's opinions as gospel when they haven't seen a player. But, like you said...DX is not infallible.

What confuses me though is how you take opposite sides of the same point. I believe you said CLE wouldn't make that deal, but then you go on to agree with DX that he's the clear cut #1. Well, IMO, if he has distinguished himself in that way, then yes, CLE might/probably would do a #8 + #3 trade for him.

Also, I'd be interested if you had a rebuttal to my last comments about Irving, since we went there too.

[Yes We Kahn]

Uh oh. Lute just compared Williams to Iguodala... but a better shooter. That'll should get some fans excited.

[Klomp]

Uh oh. Lute just compared Williams to Iguodala... but a better shooter. That'll should get some fans excited.

Heard that too....but he was talkin athletic ability I think

[Yes We Kahn]

Uh oh. Lute just compared Williams to Iguodala... but a better shooter. That'll should get some fans excited.

Heard that too....but he was talkin athletic ability I think

Ahh maybe. Wasn't listening that closely. Thought he just asked him what player that he coached Williams reminds him most of with Lute saying that Williams is one of a kind, but most like Iguodala except a better shooting. Maybe he said athletically most like Iguodala.

[Krapinsky]

I think a few teams that had Irving atop their draft board might have Williams there after tonight.

[horaceworthy]

What confuses me though is how you take opposite sides of the same point. I believe you said CLE wouldn't make that deal, but then you go on to agree with DX that he's the clear cut #1. Well, IMO, if he has distinguished himself in that way, then yes, CLE might/probably would do a #8 + #3 trade for him.

There's a difference between being a clear cut #1 and being worth more than #3 and #8. I'd like Irving more than Barnes, Williams or Knight, but I'd like Knight along with Barnes or Williams more than Irving. The #3 and #8 is a good package.

Also, I'd be interested if you had a rebuttal to my last comments about Irving, since we went there too.

I think Irving is a good facilitator. If most of what you've seen is since he came backI can see how you'd think otherwise, since he looked a little out of sorts when it came to his timing and accuracy in that area when he came back. I chalk that up to rust, but it's not the end of the world if he isn't quite in the Nash/CP3 realm.

I think that like Nash and CP3, Irving will be able to get wherever he wants on the floor, he's also got a similar money jumper, ability to create space, and shotmaking in the lane. Even if he's not Nash/CP3, he could be a more solidly built Curry (another similarly sized guy), although Irving looks to be a more natural distributor than him. If it turns out that Irving ends up in the Nash/Paul realm as a distributor than that's a franchise changing PG. If not, he should still be a high level shot creator and maker in the Curry mold, which is still a good thing.

[cpfsf]

Krapinsky, your way behind schedule. Make the Wolves consensus mock draft thread already.

[horaceworthy]

I think a few teams that had Irving atop their draft board might have Williams there after tonight.

I'm with you. It felt odd being so effusive about Irving in my last post and not mentioning Williams when his team got smoked and Williams looked like a longer, more athletic, more skilled Grandmama. I've been wondering how possible it might be for him to transition to SF, and he showed some very promising flashes in that regard tonight. It's weird because they're both such ridiculously good shotmakers. Irving has youth and being a PG on his side, but Williams has size and the fact that he's still playing on his.

[Krapinsky]

I think he would have a much easier time becoming a SF on a different team than this one as its currently set up. it would be sort of ironic though if in three years we replaced a Smith-Love-Jefferson logjam with Williams-Love-Randolph.

[Krapinsky]

Krapinsky, your way behind schedule. Make the Wolves consensus mock draft thread already.

Already???

[Esohny]

Krapinsky, your way behind schedule. Make the Wolves consensus mock draft thread already.

Already???

I agree. Far too early. Gotta wait until after the national championship at an absolute minimum, and that's still pushing it.