Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 4

wanker · Post #1401 » by **wanker** » Fri Mar 25, 2011 1:30 pm

Unless it is accompanied by green font, can people please stop mentioning Fredette as a possibility with our pick. If you honestly think he deserves to be considered in the 5-8 range then I really don't even know what to say (without recourse to words such as "f******" and "moron"). While Walker is not nearly as laughable as Fredette, reaching for Walker in the top 5-6 should also be considered a joke.

gerrit4 · Post #1402 » by **gerrit4** » Fri Mar 25, 2011 1:31 pm

It will be interesting to see what the consensus is on Sullinger at the draft. I think he'll be a good pro, but is obviously a bad fit on the current raps team. I'd be thrilled with Irving, Barnes or Williams. I'm intrigued by Kanter, Jones, Knight and Walker. Could be a good(ish) draft for us after all.

CunningLinguist · Post #1403 » by **CunningLinguist** » Fri Mar 25, 2011 1:32 pm

fredericklove wrote:
dagger wrote:
Well, if we got #1, it would be really challenging. Do we go for Irving, or if Barnes has a big windup, why not him. I've suggested the 2012 draft has more point guard depth anyway and a small forward with good shooting range would be more impactful. Heck, if Williams or Sullinger go all the way with the same kind of games, we could end up with the second or third pick and still face a PG/SF dilemma with Irving/Barnes.

Rationally raptors need a better point guard who can create who can score who can be active defensively. I like barnes, but we need someone who can control the game, have the ball in his hand the whole game. But judging from BC's perspective, he doesn't want to end his love affair with Jose so I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't take irving as number one pick.

He almost traded Jose once, what makes you think he wouldn't do it again?

Kevin Willis · Post #1404 » by **Kevin Willis** » Fri Mar 25, 2011 1:38 pm

Leonard will be a better player than Kemba.

CunningLinguist · Post #1405 » by **CunningLinguist** » Fri Mar 25, 2011 1:39 pm

Harry Palmer wrote:
fredericklove wrote:
Harry Palmer wrote:
To me it breaks down both ways. What we absolutely need more than anything is star talent. IMO there's just not much of that in this draft, with P. Jones probably having the most but having one of the lesser odds of maxing out.

So then you drop down a peg and ask: if none of these guys are real difference makers, who fits our needs most in the next tier?

In which case I think you can make an argument either way. I just hope we suck again/more next year and some actual star talent comes our way.

In that case, i hope we get irving as a sure fire positional need for the raptors because there are more options on SF in next year's draft. I know they haven't played a single game in college yet but I want Michael Gilchrist badddd in next yr's draft. He's my favorite player out of the draft, his versatility and defense are what intriguing me the most

Here's another consideration: IF BC is actually committed to rebuilding long-term and IF the top end talent all maxes out around the same, this might actually be a good year to look at a project.

Less chance he helps us so much as a rookie that it takes us out of star talent range in the next draft AND potentially has a higher chance to be a star or almost star longer term.

IOW, this would imo be a horrible year to play it safe in the draft and prioritize 'pro-ready'.

I think the idea that a star player will improve the team too much in the 1st year is a bit overdone. Just look at Wall and Griffin. They aren't leading their teams to much better records in their 1st year. Rose took a while to have an impact too.

CunningLinguist · Post #1406 » by **CunningLinguist** » Fri Mar 25, 2011 1:46 pm

raptorsnation_5 wrote:
fredericklove wrote:
Harry Palmer wrote:
To me it breaks down both ways. What we absolutely need more than anything is star talent. IMO there's just not much of that in this draft, with P. Jones probably having the most but having one of the lesser odds of maxing out.

So then you drop down a peg and ask: if none of these guys are real difference makers, who fits our needs most in the next tier?

In which case I think you can make an argument either way. I just hope we suck again/more next year and some actual star talent comes our way.

In that case, i hope we get irving as a sure fire positional need for the raptors because there are more options on SF in next year's draft. I know they haven't played a single game in college yet but I want Michael Gilchrist badddd in next yr's draft. He's my favorite player out of the draft, his versatility and defense are what intriguing me the most

Next years draft as a whole should be better. Gilcrist, Drummond, Rivers, Kybongo just to name a few

Future drafts tend to look better because you don't have the opportunity to subject the players to scrutiny. Even the most unattractive girl can be appealing if she's far enough across the room that you can't get a good look at her.

CunningLinguist · Post #1407 » by **CunningLinguist** » Fri Mar 25, 2011 1:49 pm

dagger wrote:
Youngblood wrote:Let's look at it like this; TAKE THE BEST NBA PLAYER AVAILABLE! It sounds cliche but let's go back to 2006 as an example. Would you have taken Paul Millsap in the first round? Probably not. However, look at it now and he could go top-5 which would've been a HUGE reach according to the "experts" at that time but you would say it was a great pick now. Just take the best NBA prospect available. In other words, don't go with the Adam Morrison's of the world, go with the Derrick Williams', Kyrie Irving's, Kemba Walker's etc and live with a solid pick at worst.

I'm with Harry for once. I'm not into solid. I'm into upside in this draft.

But the problem is, he's saying there's nobody that wows him, so what upside are we talking about?

CunningLinguist · Post #1408 » by **CunningLinguist** » Fri Mar 25, 2011 1:52 pm

In that case, i hope we get irving as a sure fire positional need for the raptors because there are more options on SF in next year's draft. I know they haven't played a single game in college yet but I want Michael Gilchrist badddd in next yr's draft. He's my favorite player out of the draft, his versatility and defense are what intriguing me the most[/quote]

Here's another consideration: IF BC is actually committed to rebuilding long-term and IF the top end talent all maxes out around the same, this might actually be a good year to look at a project.

Less chance he helps us so much as a rookie that it takes us out of star talent range in the next draft AND potentially has a higher chance to be a star or almost star longer term.

IOW, this would imo be a horrible year to play it safe in the draft and prioritize 'pro-ready'.[/quote]

+ 1

This is a year you draft on potential. No two ways about it.[/quote]

I think you do that when you draft early in any draft

sunny · Post #1409 » by **sunny** » Fri Mar 25, 2011 2:24 pm

Very proud of my Arizona Wildcats. That was an absolutely beautiful game and it couldn't have come against a better opponent.

I hope you guys enjoyed that as much as I did!

GO CATS!

NH · Post #1410 » by NH » Fri Mar 25, 2011 2:30 pm

NBADraft.net hit it right in their comparison for D-Williams: Michael Beasley; a 3/4 player. Bu D-Williams is essentially a sane Beasley. I will take that any day. Derozan and D Will will make a good 2-3 combo for the Raps. Irving failed to impress me; still don't see how he is a great player.. for me its more hype. not a bad PG by any means but I am not that excited.

Kevin Willis · Post #1411 » by **Kevin Willis** » Fri Mar 25, 2011 2:37 pm

I think ppl are forgetting how dominant Beasley was in college. D-Williams may be a poor man's Beasley but Beasley was playing with the competition every game. Williams had games where he disappeared. He has one good game. Arizona had an amazing victory but his body of work this year doesn't project him to be in the same category.

I would still draft him though because there's not that much else.

Post #1412 » by **Alfred** » Fri Mar 25, 2011 2:39 pm

I don't really understand how you can say that Williams has had one good game, when he's been a top 5 rated prospect for a good portion of the second half of the season. He's had a lot of big games.

bboyskinnylegs · Post #1413 » by **bboyskinnylegs** » Fri Mar 25, 2011 2:44 pm

you can't average 19.5ppg/8.3rpg with a 70% TS% with 'one good game'

bboyskinnylegs · Post #1414 » by **bboyskinnylegs** » Fri Mar 25, 2011 2:48 pm

The way Irving plays reminds me a lot more of Stephen Curry (with better D) than Chris Paul.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Kevin Willis · Post #1415 » by **Kevin Willis** » Fri Mar 25, 2011 2:52 pm

Let me put it to you this way. D-Will had a string of 4 games where he didn't play as well. USC to Oregon. Then his stock dropped. He had a game in the spotlight and his stock rose like crazy. Like the Barnes 40 pt game. He's worthy of a top 5 pick in this draft. I'm not debating that. He's having a great year. Not debating that. But he's not Beasley who was just dominant. I just want to apply perspective, that's all.

I feel the same way about Kemba. He's a great guard with a phenomanal game but AI comparisons are a little too much.

God Squad · Post #1416 » by **God Squad** » Fri Mar 25, 2011 2:58 pm

bboyskinnylegs wrote:you can't average 19.5ppg/8.3rpg with a 70% TS% with 'one good game'

lol +1 He's had many good games. I only watched the first half of the game. But Williams started off on fire. Kyrie started off well too. My question is for those who watched the whole game. How did Kyrie look in the second half? How was he at running pg. Also is Dwill able to play the 3? When I saw he was going a lot of the 4 work. With the exception of being able to stretch the D with his 3pt shot. He's definitely a 3 \ 4.

Draft Board.

PG - Kyrie/Knight

SF - Barnes/Dwill

C - Kanter

I will i'm gonna keep my selection as is till lottery. DX has Dwill falling to 5. While Barnes moves up to 4. Also they have BKnight being picked 8th and Kanter being picked 9th. Sigggh. Looking good for the cavs.

sunny · Post #1417 » by **sunny** » Fri Mar 25, 2011 2:59 pm

Kevin Willis wrote:Let me put it to you this way. D-Will had a string of 4 games where he didn't play as well. USC to Oregon. Then his stock dropped. He had a game in the spotlight and his stock rose like crazy. Like the Barnes 40 pt game. He's worthy of a top 5 pick in this draft. I'm not debating that. He's having a great year. Not debating that. But he's not Beasley who was just dominant. I just want to apply perspective, that's all.

I feel the same way about Kemba. He's a great guard with a phenomanal game but AI comparisons are a little too much.

I'm sorry, but you are just wrong.
Derrick had a bad game against USC. Not only was it only one bad game, but here are some things to consider:
HE HAD A BROKEN FINGER
he played one of the best defensive teams in the country
he was double teamed by two guys who are 6'10
his point guards played absolutely terrible and couldnt get him the ball.

His other "worst" game of the season probably came against Texas and we all saw how that went.

God Squad · Post #1418 » by **God Squad** » Fri Mar 25, 2011 3:00 pm

Kevin Willis wrote:Let me put it to you this way. D-Will had a string of 4 games where he didn't play as well. USC to Oregon. Then his stock dropped. He had a game in the spotlight and his stock rose like crazy. Like the Barnes 40 pt game. He's worthy of a top 5 pick in this draft. I'm not debating that. He's having a great year. Not debating that. But he's not Beasley who was just dominant. I just want to apply perspective, that's all.

I feel the same way about Kemba. He's a great guard with a phenomanal game but AI comparisons are a little too much.

I've yet to see Dwill play an NBA game. But i'm sure I'll take him 3-5 times before I take Beasley.

dagger · Post #1419 » by **dagger** » Fri Mar 25, 2011 3:02 pm

Kevin Willis wrote:I think ppl are forgetting how dominant Beasley was in college. D-Williams may be a poor man's Beasley but Beasley was playing with the competition every game. Williams had games where he disappeared. He has one good game. Arizona had an amazing victory but his body of work this year doesn't project him to be in the same category.

I would still draft him though because there's not that much else.

Beasley also didn't get his team very far, whereas Williams basically lifted Arizona into Final Four contention by having one of the better tournament games you'll ever see. First he kept his team in the game almost singlehandedly, and when Duke adjusted to him, it left his teammates with a lot of room to impose their will on the Blue Devils.

I understand what you're saying, but players who rise to the occasion have a certain gravitas, and this team certainly needs a Big Shot Bob, even if he's not the superstar we crave.

Kevin Willis · Post #1420 » by **Kevin Willis** » Fri Mar 25, 2011 3:03 pm

sunny wrote:
Kevin Willis wrote:Let me put it to you this way. D-Will had a string of 4 games where he didn't play as well. USC to Oregon. Then his stock dropped. He had a game in the spotlight and his stock rose like crazy. Like the Barnes 40 pt game. He's worthy of a top 5 pick in this draft. I'm not debating that. He's having a great year. Not debating that. But he's not Beasley who was just dominant. I just want to apply perspective, that's all.

I feel the same way about Kemba. He's a great guard with a phenomanal game but AI comparisons are a little too much.

I'm sorry, but you are just wrong.
Derrick had a bad game against USC. Not only was it only one bad game, but here are some things to consider:
HE HAD A BROKEN FINGER
he played one of the best defensive teams in the country
he was double teamed by two guys who are 6'10
his point guards played absolutely terrible and couldnt get him the ball.

His other "worst" game of the season probably came against Texas and we all saw how that went.

Sunny, collegiately he's not in the class of Beasley. You know that. I'm just tempering over-hype. He's a damn good player but not that good.