Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 4

[Reignman]

Last time I was three to four months ago I said Kemba Walker is best fit and best player after Kyrie Irving and maybe Sullinger. For the Raps though he should be top 2 since we already have too many young power forwards and getting Sullinger wouldn't make any sense.


1) Kyrie Irving .... Can score, be play maker at the same time ... Chris Paul type of point guard

2) Kemba walker .... he just player ... A.I with some point guard skills, but not the scorer A.I ...the toughs and self confidense is the same as A.I ... My favorite player in the draft

3) Sullinger .... double double guy ... Boozer, Milsap , Elton Brand, Kevin Love type of power forward

4) Barnes Harrison .... risky player ...he could either end up being Battier with offensive game which equals to franchise player, All star, all defensive team, All NBA team, MVPS or he could end as role player like Deng/ Battier/ old grant hill... Either Way if Kyrie and Kemba are off the board he would be best player for the Raps

We wouldn't take Kemba #2, way too high. I love his skills but the thing that worries me is A) his size B) his PG skills C) he's a junior.

Now his PG skills aren't that worrying because in his 1st two years he has shown to have decent court vision; however, you need size at the PG spot now and Kemba is barely 6'.

And with respect to him being a junior, imagine if guys like Irving and Knight honed their craft for 3 years in the same system, they'd look out-of-this-world.

Kemba, like many before him, will probably look a lot superior in college than he will in the NBA. Just my opinion.

[Saciid11]

we should have a voting poll in this thread enlisting whom we will want to pick at 5th pick

Kemba Walker .... Kyrie Irving will be gone by the third pick,

[Dr Positivity]

I just think we have to go for a guy with perenniel all-star upside if he's on the board and to me that's clearly not Barnes, it's Irving, Williams, Sullinger, and Jones III (though understandably BC's not going after him). If we fall to #5 or #6 that's when I start looking at Barnes and Knight as guys that aren't going to be more than 18/6 and 17/6/4 guys respectively but could be very good Lu Deng/Jrue Holliday level starters on our team. And I suppose I could buy the doubt on Sullinger though I'm a huge fan. Williams isn't a guy you pass on though for Barnes or Knight. 22 and 9 PF and rounding up all-star teams like Bosh is easily in play for D Will. In fact it's looking to me like he has the conch for #1 pick right now over Irving.

[fredericklove]

we should have a voting poll in this thread enlisting whom we will want to pick at 5th pick

Kemba Walker .... Kyrie Irving will be gone by the third pick,

if I was the owner and u were the GM, i'll fire u right after u select kemba at 5th pick

[5DOM]

You just described a classic tweener. And Barnes' help D is just as good as his man D, that's one area where Barnes is quite polished.

D will's help D looks good because he cheats off the slower big guys he's guarding. That doesn't make him a good defender, he just knows he's quick enough to cheat. If he tries that ish against NBA SFs he's going to open up lay up lines to the rim.

I have seen nothing in D Will's college game to suggest he can guard SFs and that's the sign of a tweener. Buyer beware, if he can't guard 3's he's an undersized 4 and NBA 4s are monsters.

I'd be extremely concerned with this pick.

How can you say he's a tweener when he's shown that he can play the PF position both offensively and defensively? He's a good post player at both ends, can shoot long range shots and has good quickness, strength, skills and intelligence for NBA 4's. To me tweener is someone who doesn't fit into any position. Derrick Williams fits very nicely at the 4 and the only question for us is whether he can play the SF (just because our need is greater there). Also, you say that him being undersized is going to matter a lot, but guys like Kevin Love, David West, Millsap and Blair are just as short if not shorter. Height is not a huge issue.

[fredericklove]

Interested to see Brandon Knight tonight.

Interested to see all 3 prospects tonight! I see Ohio come in with a blowout win

[Reignman]

You just described a classic tweener. And Barnes' help D is just as good as his man D, that's one area where Barnes is quite polished.

D will's help D looks good because he cheats off the slower big guys he's guarding. That doesn't make him a good defender, he just knows he's quick enough to cheat. If he tries that ish against NBA SFs he's going to open up lay up lines to the rim.

I have seen nothing in D Will's college game to suggest he can guard SFs and that's the sign of a tweener. Buyer beware, if he can't guard 3's he's an undersized 4 and NBA 4s are monsters.

I'd be extremely concerned with this pick.

How can you say he's a tweener when he's shown that he can play the PF position both offensively and defensively? He's a good post player at both ends, can shoot long range shots and has good quickness, strength, skills and intelligence for NBA 4's. To me tweener is someone who doesn't fit into any position. Derrick Williams fits very nicely at the 4 and the only question is whether he can play the SF (just because our need is greater there). You say that him being undersized is going to matter a lot, but guys like Kevin Love, David West, Millsap and Blair are just as short if not shorter. Height is not a huge issue.

He's not a good defender at the college level so I'm not sure how he'd be a good defender at the 4 at the NBA level.

And I'm not judging purely by height, I'm actually judging by his play. I think he'd get raped by NBA PFs and SFs.

I'll give you this though, I think he'd be a better defender at the 4 than the 3 but that's not really saying much.

[toka]

we should have a voting poll in this thread enlisting whom we will want to pick at 5th pick

Kemba Walker .... Kyrie Irving will be gone by the third pick,

if I was the owner and u were the GM, i'll fire u right after u select kemba at 5th pick

Good thing you're not the Raptor's owner then.

[5DOM]

He's not a good defender at the college level so I'm not sure how he'd be a good defender at the 4 at the NBA level.

And I'm not judging purely by height, I'm actually judging by his play. I think he'd get raped by NBA PFs and SFs.

I'll give you this though, I think he'd be a better defender at the 4 than the 3 but that's not really saying much.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on whether he's a good defender at college level or not, but I think you can agree that he's certainly not a bad one. And I have to ask you how many big men were actually considered good at D before entering the draft. I honestly can't see his defense being worse than Bosh's, Amare's, Love's, Jefferson's etc. He has the athleticism, fundamentals and IQ to do well. At worst, this guy's going to be a solid PF with bad-to-average defense IMO. And of course guys improve. If you think Williams can't be a good defender in the NBA because he isn't one in college, what makes you think Harrison Barnes will be an all star level player? He sure isn't a great player at college level right now.

[crosswalkryan]

Derrick Williams is a clear PF to me. Strength matters more than being an inch or two short and he has that.

Its not an inch or two, more like 4. He's 6'7 at most and NBA PF's are considered undersized at 6'9.
Plus he can defend the 3, has the quickness for that. He might post up but that doesn't make him a PF. He will be a 3 in the NBA spotting minutes at the 4 when teams go small. And I think he will be good at that.

[TheRealDeal]

With the 5th pick Raptors select Kemba Walker from University of UCONN

you know that the U in UConn stands for, don't you?

[Reignman]

He's not a good defender at the college level so I'm not sure how he'd be a good defender at the 4 at the NBA level.

And I'm not judging purely by height, I'm actually judging by his play. I think he'd get raped by NBA PFs and SFs.

I'll give you this though, I think he'd be a better defender at the 4 than the 3 but that's not really saying much.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on whether he's a good defender at college level or not, but I think you can agree that he's certainly not a bad one. And I have to ask you how many big men were actually considered good at D before entering the draft. I honestly can't see his defense being worse than Bosh's, Amare's, Love's, Jefferson's etc. He has the athleticism, fundamentals and IQ to do well. At worst, this guy's going to be a solid PF with bad-to-average defense IMO. And of course guys improve. If you think Williams can't be a good defender in the NBA because he isn't one in college, what makes you think Harrison Barnes will be an all star level player? He sure isn't a great player at college level right now.

I hear what you're saying and really, none of us really know what will happen because every prospect is unique in his own right. And with Barnes, I'll be honest, I don't know if he'll ever be anything more than a glue guy. I guess I view Barnes as a safer pick than the others because I see his defense, rebounding and long ball all translating to some extent. How good of an offensive player he'll be is almost as much as an unknown as D Will's defense.

After Irving I just don't see too many well-rounded players and I guess that's where pro scouting comes into play.

D Will - What's his position?
Barnes - Average athleticism and middling offensive game in college
Sullinger - undersized big man muscling guys in college and not the greatest defender
Kemba walker - Undersized, junior and point guard skills
P Jones - Tweener and a ton of questions about almost every aspect of his game
Val - Euro import

It's funny that there might really be no consensus in the top 5-8 players in this draft. Irving going #1 is most likely but after that you could practically make a few different lists so please don't think I'm talking in any kind of absolutes.

I could be wrong just as much as I could be right.

Except Jimmer, I don't think he should be a top 10 pick period and someone will regret it if they draft him that high. That I'm fairly confident in saying.

[Reignman]

Derrick Williams is a clear PF to me. Strength matters more than being an inch or two short and he has that.

Its not an inch or two, more like 4. He's 6'7 at most and NBA PF's are considered undersized at 6'9.
Plus he can defend the 3, has the quickness for that. He might post up but that doesn't make him a PF. He will be a 3 in the NBA spotting minutes at the 4 when teams go small. And I think he will be good at that.

what evidence is there that he can defend the 3?

Even Sunny, who is probably his biggest follower on this board can't say one way or another. He defends slower bigs in college so it skews the way his defense looks.

[OAKLEY_2]

If the draft were held tomorrow I would not be surprised if Cleveland takes Sullinger number 1.

1. Cleveland: Sullinger 1. Cleveland: Irving 1. Cleveland: Derrick Williams
2. Sac: Irving 2. Sac: Barnes 2. Sac: Irving
3. Wolves: Barnes 3. Wolves: Valancuinas 3. Wolves: Barnes
4. Wiz: Derrick Williams 4. Wiz: Derrick Williams 4. Wiz: Jones III

available Jones III/Sullinger/Valancuinas/Kantner/Kemba

So there may be some serious rising and falling of stock but it all could look like:

Jones III, Sullinger, Kanter, Valancuinas, Kemba, TJones

[fredericklove]

Kemba Walker .... Kyrie Irving will be gone by the third pick,

if I was the owner and u were the GM, i'll fire u right after u select kemba at 5th pick

Good thing you're not the Raptor's owner then.

How is it a bad thing if I was the owner... I could fire both BC and Jay to make u fans happy, still a bad thing?

[fredericklove]

With the 5th pick Raptors select Kemba Walker from University of UCONN

you know that the U in UConn stands for, don't you?

LOL at University of UCONN

[crosswalkryan]

Derrick Williams is a clear PF to me. Strength matters more than being an inch or two short and he has that.

Its not an inch or two, more like 4. He's 6'7 at most and NBA PF's are considered undersized at 6'9.
Plus he can defend the 3, has the quickness for that. He might post up but that doesn't make him a PF. He will be a 3 in the NBA spotting minutes at the 4 when teams go small. And I think he will be good at that.

what evidence is there that he can defend the 3?

Even Sunny, who is probably his biggest follower on this board can't say one way or another. He defends slower bigs in college so it skews the way his defense looks.

Well, he has the length and quickness to defend the 3. He also has a decent BBIQ. Will come down to how well he is coached in the NBA. I don't see it as a problem, its not like we are debating if Kemba Walker can defend the SG position in the NBA or if Jimmer Fredette can defend a slow moving penguin

[CunningLinguist]

Derrick Williams is a clear PF to me. Strength matters more than being an inch or two short and he has that.

Its not an inch or two, more like 4. He's 6'7 at most and NBA PF's are considered undersized at 6'9.
Plus he can defend the 3, has the quickness for that. He might post up but that doesn't make him a PF. He will be a 3 in the NBA spotting minutes at the 4 when teams go small. And I think he will be good at that.

what evidence is there that he can defend the 3?

Even Sunny, who is probably his biggest follower on this board can't say one way or another. He defends slower bigs in college so it skews the way his defense looks.

This is exactly it. Just becaue he's explosive vertically doesn't mean he has the lateral quicks to defend the SF position.

[gerrit4]

This is exactly it. Just becaue he's explosive vertically doesn't mean he has the lateral quicks to defend the SF position.

It's a valid point. I'm one of the fastest runners in my pickup game (in terms of running down the open court) but I'll be damned if I can keep up with half the guys in terms of guarding them laterally.

That being said, he appears to be the closest thing to a sure thing in this draft outside of Irving. If we did draft him, we could bring him off the bench in a 3/4 role (similar to Kleiza) and then deal with trading one of our bigs later on. If we got a playmaking pg (like Andre Miller), we could have a nice running lineup of something like Miller, Barbosa, Derozan, Williams, Davis.

[Sanctuary123]

I really like Kemba Walker. He'd be a good fit. Some guys can just ball and he' s one of them. We really have nobody right now that can break down defenses and it would make a huge difference for everybody but especially guys like Ed Davis and Amir.