Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 5

[Comeatme_Bro]

Top 5 remains:

Irving
Barnes
P Jones
Knight
Val

All of these guys have two way potential and all have decent ceilings with Knight, Val and PJ having the highest ceilings of the group.

The real risky pick here is PJ but you can't overlook the length/athleticism/skill. High bust potential but he has to be in the top 5, kid is the best player in this draft if he reaches his full potential.

I love how you say we need two way players yet list P. Jones. The guy plays defense like Bargnani.

i'm definitely not going to argue with you there but just like Bargnani he's a SF that's been asked to play the 4/5 in college. Whether he can really man the 3 spot in the NBA is a HUGE question mark.

There's a reason I always add a caveat when I put PJ in my top 5, like I said, he has the highest bust potential out of the top prospects but you can't overlook the size to skill ratio (did I just say that?)

that last part sounds like someone on our team.

[Reignman]

I hope tonight's game against GS is a sharp reminder that we need as much two-way potential as we can get so I'd like to leave the tweeners and undersized guys off the list.

No D Will's, no Sullinger's, and no Walker's for me.

Two way potential, that has to be high on the list for whoever we draft.

I shot up 25 pounds and 2inches when I hit 21. I'd take D Will easily

It's not his measurments I'm worried about, it's his skillset. He looks quick on D because he's guarding the other teams 4/5 who are naturally slower. You put him against NBA SFs and it's likely that he gets burned like no tomorrow.

He hasn't shown anything to suggest he's not a classic tweener on defense.

[MEDIC]

Top 5 remains:

Irving
Barnes
P Jones
Knight
Val

Wow, other than Irving & Barnes, we're far off (Val intrigues me, but I really know nothing about the guy & the history of skinny, raw European Centers in the league is not a good one).

What is it about Knight that you like so much in terms of PG skills? Any player comparisons in terms of ceiling?

I've only watched him a couple of times, but he screams Jru Holiday to me (very good defensively, but doesn't have great PG skills). We need a much better PG than that.

No thanks to Perry Jones. The mental aspect of the game is such a big one for me & he seems talented physically, but weak mentally. Type of guy that has large bust potential. Of course, sometimes it's a youth thing. Could lack confidence.

[Mr.Raptorsingh]

The thing about Knight is his potential, and the fact that he has size to be a factor on the defensive end as well. Completely understand where Reignman, and others are coming from.

I wouldn't discount Kemba though.

[andreavagnani]

Knight reminds me so much of Bayless in college. He's a combo guard, athletic, and can score but makes way too many bonehead mistakes that lead to turnovers so you question weather or not he can become a PG. There is no way he will go in the top 5 so Raptors fans don't hold your breath.

Knight is nothing like Bayless nor is he a combo guard.

I don't know where some people get their opinions from.

I wasn't referring to there play being similar, and he is a combo guard... shows just how much you know

[Reignman]

Top 5 remains:

Irving
Barnes
P Jones
Knight
Val

Wow, other than Irving & Barnes, we're far off (Val intrigues me, but I really know nothing about the guy & the history of skinny, raw European Centers in the league is not a good one).

What is it about Knight that you like so much in terms of PG skills? Any player comparisons in terms of ceiling?

I've only watched him a couple of times, but he screams Jru Holiday to me (very good defensively, but doesn't have great PG skills). We need a much better PG than that.

No thanks to Perry Jones. The mental aspect of the game is such a big one for me & he seems talented physically, but weak mentally. Type of guy that has large bust potential. Of course, sometimes it's a youth thing. Could lack confidence.

Most of my picks are home-run type picks so if things look a little off that's probably why. Knight, Val and PJ are on there stricly because they have the highest ceilings out of all the top prospects. Irving/Barnes are there because they have the most well rounded skills coupled with the requisite size/skill/athleticism. Call them safe upside picks if you will.

Now about Knight, you nailed it, I kind of look at him like Holiday. Difference is, I'm extremely high on Holiday's potential while you don't seem to be. Just like Knight, Holiday was the youngest prospect in his class, remember, Holiday is only only 19yrs old as an NBA soph. Both have great size and have potential on both sides of the ball. Knight can become a beast if he's put in the right situation. I'd easily take him over Kemba if it came down to the two of them.


BTW, this doesn't mean I'd overlook guys like Sullinger, D Will and Walker, it just means if they were BPA I'd probably pick them and trade down.

[Steely Reserve]

Knight reminds me so much of Bayless in college. He's a combo guard, athletic, and can score but makes way too many bonehead mistakes that lead to turnovers so you question weather or not he can become a PG. There is no way he will go in the top 5 so Raptors fans don't hold your breath.

Knight is nothing like Bayless nor is he a combo guard.

I don't know where some people get their opinions from.

I wasn't referring to there play being similar, and he is a combo guard... shows just how much you know

I perfectly understood what you said, and you're still wrong. He is not a combo guard.

But keep saying if you want. Do you...

[Doctorb23]

Hmmm. Harrelson's a senior. wonder if he'll work out for teams or if he could be brought in for summer league or a free agent contract. ESPN lists him as 6 10, 275 looked fairly skilled offensively for a big dude. I was impressed.

[TheDunc]

David lighty would look good in a raptors uniform.

[andreavagnani]

I perfectly understood what you said, and you're still wrong. He is not a combo guard.

But keep saying if you want. Do you...

LOL yes he is.

"do you" phag

[Steely Reserve]

Top 5 remains:

Irving
Barnes
P Jones
Knight
Val

Wow, other than Irving & Barnes, we're far off (Val intrigues me, but I really know nothing about the guy & the history of skinny, raw European Centers in the league is not a good one).

What is it about Knight that you like so much in terms of PG skills? Any player comparisons in terms of ceiling?

I've only watched him a couple of times, but he screams Jru Holiday to me (very good defensively, but doesn't have great PG skills). We need a much better PG than that.

No thanks to Perry Jones. The mental aspect of the game is such a big one for me & he seems talented physically, but weak mentally. Type of guy that has large bust potential. Of course, sometimes it's a youth thing. Could lack confidence.

Most of my picks are home-run type picks so if things look a little off that's probably why. Knight, Val and PJ are on there stricly because they have the highest ceilings out of all the top prospects. Irving/Barnes are there because they have the most well rounded skills coupled with the requisite size/skill/athleticism. Call them safe upside picks if you will.

Now about Knight, you nailed it, I kind of look at him like Holiday. Difference is, I'm extremely high on Holiday's potential while you don't seem to be. Just like Knight, Holiday was the youngest prospect in his class, remember, Holiday is only only 19yrs old as an NBA soph. Both have great size and have potential on both sides of the ball. Knight can become a beast if he's put in the right situation. I'd easily take him over Kemba if it came down to the two of them.


BTW, this doesn't mean I'd overlook guys like Sullinger, D Will and Walker, it just means if they were BPA I'd probably pick them and trade down.

Knight projects being a better pro than Holiday. Knight has range from 15-23 feet out. He's just a better shooter and scorer than Holiday.

Regardless, I appreciate you laying a case out for Perry Jones amid all the unfair criticsm he gets but I think you're doing it too passively. Perry should be the #1 pick... period. If you replace T. Jones with P. Jones on this Kentucky team, they'd be a #1 seed and favorites to win it all.

People undervaluing college bigs playing on poor teams happens all the time. Even still Perry put up 14/7 on 55%. How that screams high bust factor, I don't know. The guy is skilled perimeter player that warrants double team attention on the block.

That alone should get a player drafted top 2.

[MEDIC]

The thing about Knight is his potential, and the fact that he has size to be a factor on the defensive end as well. Completely understand where Reignman, and others are coming from.

I wouldn't discount Kemba though.

The thing about PG's though is that you either have it or you don't (generally speaking). Nash & Rondo are two of the few PG's in the league that got significantly better after a several years in the league.

Jason Kidd, Chris Paul, Deron Williams, John Stockton all had excellent court vision naturally. They had elite PG skills when they were in highschool, college & the NBA.

Then there's the guys like Rondo, D Rose & Westbrook that all get by on their elite athleticism, but Knight isn't near these guys in terms of athleticism.

[ballislife]

I'm sold on Knight. I think he could be a pretty good player in the NBA because of the shift in PGs that we've seen. He's a big PG and he's intelligent (they were talking about him having a 4.0 gpa) with an excellent work ethic. His play making abilities have improved a lot over the season... what I like best is that he's a willing learner and he's stated that it's important as a PG to be an extension of the coach... we need that kind of leadership from our young guys.

His game isn't on full display in Calipari's system because he's mainly running around screens - not really driving to the basket too much... he would be great in an up-tempo system like ours with the ball in his hands a lot more. But in all, he's very young, very talented, smart, and a hard worker... that's just a recipe for success - he definitely needs to be highly considered with the 5th pick, there's not much to dislike about this guy.

[CunningLinguist]

USC's Nikola Vucevic has officially entered his name in the NBA Draft and has already signed with an agent.

He impressed me the couple times I saw him.

[TiKusDom]

Knight is a very special PG. He knows how to win and has been doing it since high school. He has dominated at every level hes played and this tournament is no different. His combination of youth, size, athleticism , basketball IQ, work ethic and character make him an excellent young prospect. To me he is the clear second best PG prospect to select if Irving is off the board.

[Reignman]

What's funny is that this draft is mostly about potential. To try and prove someone right or wrong is an effort in futility because the fact is that nobody knows.

I know I like to trumpet my opinion but that doesn't mean I'm 100% sure about any of these guys. For all I know D Will is the next Barkley, Kemba is the next A.I. and Sullinger is the next whoever.

Trying to project in this particular draft is very difficult but I'm going with the home run guys because we desperately need it. Irving/Barnes are my only safe picks because they seem to have a high floor.

[5DOM]

I hope tonight's game against GS is a sharp reminder that we need as much two-way potential as we can get so I'd like to leave the tweeners and undersized guys off the list.

No D Will's, no Sullinger's, and no Walker's for me.

Two way potential, that has to be high on the list for whoever we draft.

Derrick Williams has just as much chance of being a two way player as Harrison Barnes. I'd say his defense is better than Barnes' offense,

You would've been better off saying D Will has more offensive potential than Barnes. TBH, on the defensive end there is no comparison, it's not even close.

No, I stand by what I said. Williams' defense is better than Barnes' offense. Just like there's nothing special about Williams' defense, there's nothing special about Barne's O. I think people put too much into Barnes' HS hype and that 40 point game. He's still a very limited offensive player who's inconsistent, gets a lot of easy opportunities by playing in a stacked team, and is very much replaceable in college. You say that Williams will get burned by NBA SF's, but now how do you think Barnes will do against NBA defenders who are much taller and athletic than anyone Barnes' faced this season. I think it's also important to note that good defense in college just like good offense doesn't always translate well into NBA. Look at guys like Danny Green and Kyle Weaver. They were supposed to be very good defenders even at the pro level, but that's not the case.

And I just want to say this again

I can't help but think that if Barnes played for a different team his stock would be much lower. He doesn't have to carry his team like most other top 10 prospects and can focus on what he does best: take jumpers, defend. There really is no need for him to create and he gets easy open chances from his teammates. It also helps that his team gets the media attention and can usually win with him being the 4th best player on the court. Zeller, Henson and Marshall are more important than him imo

Or if he was playing like this without the high school hype. Agreed he might be more of a Jordan Hamilton level prospect. The difference between those two prospects specifically reminds me a bit of Flynn getting projected top 7 and Lawson non lotto which in retrospect is bizarre

Hamilton might be underrated though. SFs who are athletic enough to defend while being sharpshooter 3pt guys are much harder to get than it seems.

[baulderdash77]

Regardless, I appreciate you laying a case out for Perry Jones amid all the unfair criticsm he gets but I think you're doing it too passively. Perry should be the #1 pick... period. If you replace T. Jones with P. Jones on this Kentucky team, they'd be a #1 seed and favorites to win it all.

People undervaluing college bigs playing on poor teams happens all the time. Even still Perry put up 14/7 on 55%. How that screams high bust factor, I don't know. The guy is skilled perimeter player that warrants double team attention on the block.

That alone should get a player drafted top 2.

Now you're getting out of control. Perry Jones is a skilled perimeter player?

He can't hit a jump shot. He's had a 33% shooting percentage on anything that wasn't a dunk, layup or tip-in. He shot 20% from the college 3. You mentioned earlier that his team had such a poor assist rate. Maybe it was because PJ bricked his attempts.

PJ is a great athlete but he doesn't know how to use it. I wasn't kidding when I said I wouldn't take him unless it was with a late lotto pick. It's because he's more likely to bust than to hit.

[Ackshun]

not sure how this draft is considered weak.

there are tons of players in the top 45 that intrigue me

[5DOM]

@JerodNBC4
Jerod Smalley
Sullinger will return next year. Just told us in lockerroom

I think there's a chance that Sullinger, Irving, Williams and Barnes all stay in school

btw let me ask you guys this because I haven't seen much of Burks

Other than being a year younger what make Harrison Barnes a better prospect than Alec Burks?
From what I've read, Burks seems to have great potential himself (with great athleticism and skill set) while having produced much more. Obviously not for us because he's a 2, but i am just curious