Discussing Other Teams' Moves

Post #121 » by **Rafael122** » Sat Mar 26, 2011 10:55 pm

Knicks are struggling, 5 game losing streak. Donnie Walsh is probably sitting somewhere saying "I told you so." The only person who really needed to make this move was Anthony because of CBA reasons, but his selfishness and greed has arguably made the Knicks worse off. They have no big man, and they have no depth.

closg00 · Post #122 » by **closg00** » Sun Mar 27, 2011 12:44 am

Rafael122 wrote:Knicks are struggling, 5 game losing streak. Donnie Walsh is probably sitting somewhere saying "I told you so." The only person who really needed to make this move was Anthony because of CBA reasons, but his selfishness and greed has arguably made the Knicks worse off. They have no big man, and they have no depth.

...and no cap, one of few times in NBA history where the team trading-away a superstar, got better value in return....perhaps the best trade ever in that regard.

Halcyon · Post #123 » by **Halcyon** » Sun Mar 27, 2011 5:36 pm

Rafael122 wrote:Knicks are struggling, 5 game losing streak. Donnie Walsh is probably sitting somewhere saying "I told you so." The only person who really needed to make this move was Anthony because of CBA reasons, but his selfishness and greed has arguably made the Knicks worse off. They have no big man, and they have no depth.

Blame Isiah for orchestrating this nonsense again, which I think is the funniest part of all this.

Illuminaire · Post #124 » by **Illuminaire** » Sun Mar 27, 2011 9:18 pm

It's a bit too early to judge the Melo trade. I think a lot depends on whether they can swing Paul or Deron Williams at a discount. The new CBA will pretty much make or break their team, but if they DO get another true star they will have the talent to make serious noise until Amare's knees implode.

Halcyon · Post #125 » by **Halcyon** » Sun Mar 27, 2011 9:43 pm

I personally think it would be a mistake to take up the rest of their cap room with another "superstar" player. They need a few more holes to fill in due to the fact that Amare and Melo are poor defensive players, and are pretty one dimensional. It's not quite like Miami, where Wade and Lebron are both pretty versatile. I don't think Paul/Deron at a near max contract would be a good decision.

Illuminaire · Post #126 » by **Illuminaire** » Sun Mar 27, 2011 9:53 pm

On one level I agree with you, Halycon. I don't think that adding Paul/Deron makes them championship favorites. On the other hand, I think that it is the *only* course left to them that has any significant chance of success.

Between Melo and Amare they have already eaten too much of their cap. With those two, they are also too good to have more than a blind man's chance of acquiring more difference makers in the draft (whenever they actually have first round picks). They already went all-in, they can't afford to fold now.

I also think the Melo trade was a poor one, but not because acquiring Melo was a bad idea - they should just have told him that if he really wanted to win, he needed to come as a free agent over the summer. Now they have to restock their roleplayers before they have a complete team again, AND they have less assets to move for any "final pieces" they need down the road.

On the other hand, though, the team they started the season with wasn't going to win a championship either. It too lacked defense (though not as badly) and Raymond Felton was not the answer at PG. If NY gets a third star, they at least have an outside shot at winning something over the next few years. It's not a great shot, but it would be a better one than just sitting on what they had.

Sorry for the long post. Feeling ramblicious today, hah.

FAH1223 · Post #127 » by **FAH1223** » Sun Mar 27, 2011 11:36 pm

i really like Denver's team, they're so deep... perhaps too deep but with six free agents this summer we'll see how things shape out there

i wouldn't be surprised if they made it to the WCF

Post #128 » by **montestewart** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 12:14 am

^
Denver had a very good but seemingly fatally flawed team, and they got a serious face lift on the fast track. New York seems not to have improved through the trade. Do they ever have a real plan up there? Maybe they do and that Dan Snyder-like guy just keeps interrupting it with his need to do something big right away. Isn't that how they ended up with a Starbury-Franchise backcourt? If they strike out with Paul/Williams, I expect to see Ellis at PG soon enough.

Post #129 » by **nate33** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 12:21 am

The Knicks really blew it by going after Melo instead of waiting a year for C.Paul or D.Williams. They should have stood pat, then signed Wilson Chandler to a Nick Collison type deal, and conserve cap space for 2012.

FAH1223 · Post #130 » by **FAH1223** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 12:26 am

montestewart wrote:^
Denver had a very good but seemingly fatally flawed team, and they got a serious face lift on the fast track. New York seems not to have improved through the trade. Do they ever have a real plan up there? Maybe they do and that Dan Snyder-like guy just keeps interrupting it with his need to do something big right away. Isn't that how they ended up with a Starbury-Franchise backcourt? If they strike out with Paul/Williams, I expect to see Ellis at PG soon enough.

Donnie Walsh pretty much is now telling everyone "i told you so" :lol:

Illuminaire · Post #131 » by **Illuminaire** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 12:36 am

nate33 wrote:The Knicks really blew it by going after Melo instead of waiting a year for C.Paul or D.Williams. They should have stood pat, then signed Wilson Chandler to a Nick Collison type deal, and conserve cap space for 2012.

I want to agree completely. I just can't shake the Wedding Toast not being more than a joke.

Dat2U · Post #132 » by **Dat2U** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 8:48 am

Meh, the Knicks trade for Melo was never about this year. They were a .500 team that played over their heads and were backsliding downhill before the Melo deal. Breaking up a .500 team isn't "blowing it". It's what Ernie should have done years ago with the Wizards instead of waiting until it was way too late.

The Knicks are in transition. They need to figure out there identity. And they need size. Billups is probably a bad fit for D'Antoni's run and gun system and I'm not sure D'Antoni is the right coach for them going forward. Actually, I know he isn't.

Post #133 » by **Rafael122** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 12:40 pm

Dat2U wrote:Meh, the Knicks trade for Melo was never about this year. They were a .500 team that played over their heads and were backsliding downhill before the Melo deal. Breaking up a .500 team isn't "blowing it". It's what Ernie should have done years ago with the Wizards instead of waiting until it was way too late.

The Knicks are in transition. They need to figure out there identity. And they need size. Billups is probably a bad fit for D'Antoni's run and gun system and I'm not sure D'Antoni is the right coach for them going forward. Actually, I know he isn't.

They've got 2 guys and everyone else. They don't play defense, they don't have a center, and they don't have depth. The only 3 guys who will probably be there in 3 years are Fields, Stat and Anthony. Luckily, the Knicks have a 1st round pick this year so that may help a little, but they're capped out for the moment.

NY didn't have to make this trade during the season, everyone knew Melo wanted to go to New York, so why not wait it out? If it wasn't about this year, why make the trade?

Post #134 » by **Ruzious** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 1:04 pm

Rafael122 wrote:
Dat2U wrote:Meh, the Knicks trade for Melo was never about this year. They were a .500 team that played over their heads and were backsliding downhill before the Melo deal. Breaking up a .500 team isn't "blowing it". It's what Ernie should have done years ago with the Wizards instead of waiting until it was way too late.

The Knicks are in transition. They need to figure out there identity. And they need size. Billups is probably a bad fit for D'Antoni's run and gun system and I'm not sure D'Antoni is the right coach for them going forward. Actually, I know he isn't.

They've got 2 guys and everyone else. They don't play defense, they don't have a center, and they don't have depth. The only 3 guys who will probably be there in 3 years are Fields, Stat and Anthony. Luckily, the Knicks have a 1st round pick this year so that may help a little, but they're capped out for the moment.

NY didn't have to make this trade during the season, everyone knew Melo wanted to go to New York, so why not wait it out? If it wasn't about this year, why make the trade?

They must have figured that NJ was a possible destination - or even LAL with a possible Bynum trade - though I don't think that would have made much sense.

closg00 · Post #135 » by **closg00** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 1:19 pm

Bottom-line, Melo isn't worth it, Denver is playing better ball and they are much deeper now. Thanks New York.

Post #136 » by **LyricalRico** » Mon Mar 28, 2011 3:07 pm

Rafael122 wrote:
Dat2U wrote:Meh, the Knicks trade for Melo was never about this year. They were a .500 team that played over their heads and were backsliding downhill before the Melo deal. Breaking up a .500 team isn't "blowing it". It's what Ernie should have done years ago with the Wizards instead of waiting until it was way too late.

The Knicks are in transition. They need to figure out there identity. And they need size. Billups is probably a bad fit for D'Antoni's run and gun system and I'm not sure D'Antoni is the right coach for them going forward. Actually, I know he isn't.

They've got 2 guys and everyone else. They don't play defense, they don't have a center, and they don't have depth. The only 3 guys who will probably be there in 3 years are Fields, Stat and Anthony. Luckily, the Knicks have a 1st round pick this year so that may help a little, but they're capped out for the moment.

NY didn't have to make this trade during the season, everyone knew Melo wanted to go to New York, so why not wait it out? If it wasn't about this year, why make the trade?

I agree with Dat. NY wasn't a contender pre-Melo, so their current struggles aren't as big of a deal as folks are making it out to be IMO. All of the things that are wrong with them can be fixed in one offseason:

- sign a couple bigs
- draft a young point guard
- hire a different coach

Assuming the MLE/LLE still exists, they can do all of that this coming summer. And Chauncey would then become more valuable to them since they'd be running a different system. Bring all of that together for a full training camp and you'll see a much better team IMO.

Will they be better than a "best case scenario" in which they got Williams or Paul and were able to retain their other guys? Who knows. It may not even have worked out they way folks think it could have. They had an opportunity in front of them and they took it. You can only critcize them so much for that.

Post #137 » by **LyricalRico** » Tue Mar 29, 2011 6:19 pm

First Milsap is having to fight for minutes and now this:

Al Jefferson sat noticeably on the end of Utah’s bench in the fourth quarter and overtime of a 100-95 loss to the lowly Washington Wizards on Monday night at EnergySolutions Arena.

When he stood during timeouts, he did so far from the team huddle, with his hands on his hips. When the buzzer sounded, he was the first off the bench and into the locker room. And when approached by the media following the defeat, he refused to comment, forcefully waving reporters off with his left hand.

Yes, it’s rather obvious that Jefferson isn’t a happy camper these days.

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/jazz/51519 ... .html.csp#

Add in Okur's injuries plus Kirilenko's expiring deal and their frontcourt could look totally different next season. I still wouldn't mind adding Jefferson. He's not the ideal center, but I think he's an upgrade over what we have. Or we could move him to PF if we end up keeping McGee.

FAH1223 · Post #138 » by **FAH1223** » Tue Mar 29, 2011 7:57 pm

he doesn't want to play the 4...

I'd like to get Millsap

Hoopalotta · Post #139 » by **Hoopalotta** » Sat Apr 2, 2011 11:58 pm

This wiretap piece amuses me:

Avery Johnson Impressed With Thaddeus Young

The Sixers' Thaddeus Young will become a free agent this summer, and the Nets' head coach Avery Johnson thinks that should get a lot of attention.

“If (Young) didn’t have the type of year he’s had, I don’t think the (76ers) would be a playoff team,” Johnson said. “He’s kind of the MVP of the team.”

The Sixers are likely to extend an offer sheet to Young and try to match whatever any other team offers him, but are in a tough spot because he plays behind Elton Brand and Andre Iguodala and their big contracts. Both Brand and Iguodala are under contract through the 2012-13 season.

Young’s not on the level of New Jersey’s 2012 target, Dwight Howard, but he’s the type of versatile forward the Nets are missing, and thought they were getting with Travis Outlaw.

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/21 ... deus_Young

Then consider that it was Avery Johnson who pushed for the Travis Outlaw signing and that the Sixers'll be hard pressed to match on Young if they plan to go into 2012 with a center on the roster.

:nonono:

It's well and nice that they got Deron and I'd say they have a fair shot at the playoffs next year, but that 2010 offseason was just unspeakably horrible outside of Morrow and the draft.

closg00 · Post #140 » by **closg00** » Mon Apr 4, 2011 3:37 pm

Who get's your vote for COY? In the FoxSports poll the choices are:

Doug Collins - Sixers

George Karl - Nuggets

Gregg Popovitch - Spurs

Tom Thibodeau - Bulls

The author gives the nod to Thibs, but I think you have to give it to Collins hands-down. The Bulls have Rose.
http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/chic ... ach-033011