Draft Thread Continued. 2011 part two...

[tontoz]

More and more I am starting to lean towards Kanter. This is based more on what I've seen from other potential prospects, rather than additional info I have gathered on Kanter. Barnes may end up being a guy like Deng who is a very solid player, but not a huge difference maker by any means. Cannot create off the dribble, will end up being a jump shooter primarily, and be a solid defender. Irving doesn't fit into our plans, Sullinger looks like he may be staying in school, Jones seems like a drifter, Williams may be good offensively but may be overmatched on defense.

Kanter seems like the only guy who has a defined position, with the skills and size needed for that position, and fills a need that we have.

I would probably take Kanter 1st also. It is easy to picture him playing next to McGee, Seraphin or Booker.

[NbdyBeatsTheWiz]

I love the idea of drafting Kanter. I just can't wrap my head around it fully until I see more of him, because right now he stuff more of legend than concrete analysis. Can't wait until we get to see him working out pre-draft! Hopefully he wont be dribbling around folding chairs a.l.a. our boy Yi....

But Williams and Kanter sit atop my ideal picks for us. They are far from the Lebrons, Howards, or even Walls of the world, but they still may be the cream of this draft (including Irving of course)

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Barnes just seems like a high volume jump shooter. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't see the ball-handling, first step explosiveness or finishing ability. He's struggles to excel at these traits on the college level so it's hard to imagine that those traits will improve once he faces pro competition.

P. Jones has a much better physical profile than Barnes. Jones IMO is a better off the bounce, is more explosive and is much better finisher. Not to mention he's got better size.

I don't hate Barnes, just not in love with him. I think he's an okay pick late in the lottery but I wouldn't dare take him in the top 5. And Nate33 mentioned Barnes having the "right instincts to be a winning basketball player". Lets all remember how Barnes played earlier this season when Larry Drew III was his PG instead of Kendall Marshall. He was a bigger disappointment than PJ III and there were questions regarding his heart and competitive fire. It goes to show you how PG play on the college level can impact the level of play of their teammates. UNC was dead in the water before the switch was made. Unfortunately for Perry Jones & Baylor, they didn't have a Kendall Marshall to go off the bench.

Yesterday I was down on Barnes a lot. I forget, he's 18 (Perry Jones is 19 BTW, and has had teammate problems). I remember being indifferent about 18-yr old Kobe. Who in the world thought he'd blow up like that? I remember him missing shots and playing like Barnes did yesterday--up and down.

If the Wizards pick after 6 or so, and he's their pick, so be it. I'll wait and see and hope for the best. His shot doesn't look true enough to me, but the size and athleticism, and the willingness to step up are there.

[nate33]

The thing that I like about Barnes is that he has good basketball instincts. Yes, he was passive early in the season, but at least he played D, moved the ball on offense, and fought for loose balls and rebounds. He does all of the instinctive things that are difficult to learn. Basically, the combination of his instincts, his size/athleticism for his position, and his shooting ability pretty much guarantees that he'll be a starting-caliber player in this league. There is no downside. He will not be a bust.

It may well be true that his ceiling is limited because he doesn't show a knack for getting to the free throw line or creating his own shot, but it's not a sure thing that he WON'T develop those qualities either. By all accounts, he's a smart guy, a hard worker, and he loves to play basketball. 18-year olds with that kind of mindset combined with his physical tools tend to get better over time.

I agree that it would be disappointing to draft Barnes with a top 3 pick because his game doesn't scream "superstar". But I'd have no problems picking him up at #4 or lower in this weak draft. At least I'd know that I was getting a sure-fire starter with the potential of being an all-star caliber starter (though presumably not a franchise player).

[dobrojim]

worse things could happen to us than ending up with Barnes for
all the reasons you mention

Williams has clearly moved to the top of my list.

Kanter, as you and others have mentioned before, is unknown
but an intriguing possibility. Refresh my memory, the reason
he isn't playing this year was because...

[nate33]

He played a bit in the Euroleagues and was disqualified from NCAA competition because he had allegedly already gone "pro".

[Rafael122]

I don't get the argument that if we pick Barnes at #3 it's bad, but if we pick him at #6, it's good. What's the difference? Besides money? If you're picking him in the top 10 does it really matter where? Chances are he's going to be a 16-17 ppg player. I think that's pretty solid for a top 10 pick, not hall of fame numbers, but good nonetheless.

[nate33]

I don't get the argument that if we pick Barnes at # it's bad, but if we pick him at #6, it's good. What's the difference? Besides money? If you're picking him in the top 10 does it really matter where? Chances are he's going to be a 16-17 ppg player. I think that's pretty solid for a top 10 pick, not hall of fame numbers, but good nonetheless.

You craftily inserted "top 10" into your argument. Nobody would complain about drafting Barnes at 8,9 or 10. Most wouldn't complain about drafting him 4, 5, 6 or 7. But if you draft him 2nd or 3rd, it probably means that you will be disappointed. That doesn't necessarily mean it's not the right choice, he might well be the 2nd or 3rd best player in this draft. What it means is that most drafts have better talent at the 2 or 3 slot.

At any rate, I don't see how we'd draft Barnes in the top 3 so it's a moot point. It looks like Williams and Irving will go ahead of Barnes. If we're picking 3rd, Kanter will be on the board. If we're picking 4th or lower, Barnes might be the best choice and I wouldn't mind taking him.

My biggest fear is that we fall to 5th and Williams, Irving, Kanter and Barnes have all been taken. That leaves us with Perry Jones or a PG (Walker or Knight); and none of them are good fits for us. In that scenario, I'd definitely try and trade down. Maybe we could end up with with Vesely or Henson while picking up some additional incentive.

[Dat2U]

The higher he's picked the more disappointed your going to be. I think it does matter where you pick in the 10 top. A #3 pick historically has a much higher value than a #8 pick.

He's got the requisite athleticism for a SF but wouldn't call him a great athlete either nor do I think its automatic that he's going to be an efficient 3rd option scorer on a contender. I think he "might be okay" as a pro but I'm not seeing any all-star games in the kid's future. I think he's somewhere in between Sean Elliot (solid pro but not quite an all-star) and Marvin Williams (huge disappointment, fringe starter).

[nate33]

Does anybody think it's odd that Draft Express has Valanciunus ranked so much higher than the other draft sites? Sometimes I wonder about the impartiality of these draft sites. It wouldn't take much under the table money to convince them to place a prospect higher than they deserve. I guess it all depends on how much agents think the public drafts sites influence the actual draft.

[Rafael122]

Does anybody think it's odd that Draft Express has Valanciunus ranked so much higher than the other draft sites? Sometimes I wonder about the impartiality of these draft sites. It wouldn't take much under the table money to convince them to place a prospect higher than they deserve. I guess it all depends on how much agents think the public drafts sites influence the actual draft.

Euros will be rated higher. That's just how it is. Every year teams are trying to find the next Dirk out of there.

But going back to that Barnes thing Nate and Dat (and anyone else) what's disappointing? Kwame Brown, to me, was a disappointment. Eddy Curry was a disappointment, Michael Olowkandi was a disappointment considering where he was picked. I mean Barnes would have to be a huge bust for him to be considered a disappointment. I don't see disappointment with this kid, 18 years with old with room to grow, high basketball IQ, and humble, judging from his post game interviews during the tournament. And it's not like we're asking him to the be the focal point of the team, we have Wall for that.

[Dat2U]

Does anybody think it's odd that Draft Express has Valanciunus ranked so much higher than the other draft sites? Sometimes I wonder about the impartiality of these draft sites. It wouldn't take much under the table money to convince them to place a prospect higher than they deserve. I guess it all depends on how much agents think the public drafts sites influence the actual draft.

Yep, I've wondered at times how much influence agents have with some of these websites. I've even wondered aloud on this board about how impartial draftexpress really is. Sometimes they seem incredibly heavy handed in their reviews of some players and incredibly optimistic in others. That's why I've learned to not totally base my opinion of a player based on a website's review of them. I think nbadraft.net is the same way. That's why I either gotta see the guy play on TV, read various scouting reports from different sources and/or watch as much youtube footage as I can before forming an opinion.

[Dat2U]

Does anybody think it's odd that Draft Express has Valanciunus ranked so much higher than the other draft sites? Sometimes I wonder about the impartiality of these draft sites. It wouldn't take much under the table money to convince them to place a prospect higher than they deserve. I guess it all depends on how much agents think the public drafts sites influence the actual draft.

Euros will be rated higher. That's just how it is. Every year teams are trying to find the next Dirk out of there.

But going back to that Barnes thing Nate and Dat (and anyone else) what's disappointing? Kwame Brown, to me, was a disappointment. Eddy Curry was a disappointment, Michael Olowkandi was a disappointment considering where he was picked. I mean Barnes would have to be a huge bust for him to be considered a disappointment. I don't see disappointment with this kid, 18 years with old with room to grow, high basketball IQ, and humble, judging from his post game interviews during the tournament. And it's not like we're asking him to the be the focal point of the team, we have Wall for that.

What does post game interviews have to do with anything? Ugh, I couldn't care less about how a person interviews with the media. A good interview isn't going to help you score or play better defense (cough, Jamison, cough). I'm glad the kid is smart and humble but so was Jarvis Hayes.

[nate33]

Yikes, I hadn't considered the Jarvis Hayes comparison. Barnes' game does resemble Hayes' a bit.

That said, Barnes is taller (and therefore not a tweener who is undersized at the SF position) and younger. He also has a better handle than Hayes (who literally looked like he was afraid to ever dribble) and plays better defense. He also has the ability to create a bit of space to get his jumper off with his legit step-back move. Hayes was worthless in anything other than a catch-and-shoot scenario.

I think Calbert Cheaney might be a better comparison if we're talking about a worst-case scenario. Barnes could be Calbert Cheaney with an extra inch in height and an extra couple of inches in wingspan. Those extra inches make a difference because Cheaney was too small to be a full time SF and he couldn't handle well enough to be a SG. As a pure SF, Barnes shouldn't have those problems.

[BruceO]

lol he does remind me of jarvis too lol. i think if i watch him more i'll change mind though. whatever happened to jarvis? haven't heard that name mentioned in a while!

[BruceO]

was going to say this to all those who love kyrie and mentioning him top three. which teams do you think will draft him? i feel the teams that may look at him are utah and cleveland. everyone else seems kinda set. maybe minneapolis as well. teams with multiple picks may pass on kyrie pick someone else then pick brandon knight. noone really is considering knights impact on kyrie's stock. draft order will be very crucial

[nate33]

was going to say this to all those who love kyrie and mentioning him top three. which teams do you think will draft him? i feel the teams that may look at him are utah and cleveland. everyone else seems kinda set. maybe minneapolis as well. teams with multiple picks may pass on kyrie pick someone else then pick brandon knight. noone really is considering knights impact on kyrie's stock. draft order will be very crucial

Cleveland, Sacramento, Detroit and Toronto would draft him, or rather, they wouldn't let their current PG situation sway them from drafting him. (They might consider Williams to be the better overall prospect, however.)

The only team that would avoid drafting Irving simply because of his position is Washington, and perhaps Minnesota (depending on the Rubio situation).

[MF23]

Harrison Barnes can actually shoot and provides some substance on the court unlike Jarvis Hayes.

[Jazzfan12]

Does anybody think it's odd that Draft Express has Valanciunus ranked so much higher than the other draft sites? Sometimes I wonder about the impartiality of these draft sites. It wouldn't take much under the table money to convince them to place a prospect higher than they deserve. I guess it all depends on how much agents think the public drafts sites influence the actual draft.

Ford rates Valanciunas lower because Valanciunas has a major contract issue that will keep him in Europe until the start of the 2012-2013 season which DX doesn't take into much consideration. NBADraft.net has him lower because they have zero European scouts and because they're terrible and rated Hassan Whiteside as top 5 all year long. The people around the Cavs said they rated Valanciunas as a top 4 prospect and other teams have as well. Some say he won't declare though.

[doclinkin]

Does anybody think it's odd that Draft Express has Valanciunus ranked so much higher than the other draft sites? Sometimes I wonder about the impartiality of these draft sites. It wouldn't take much under the table money to convince them to place a prospect higher than they deserve. I guess it all depends on how much agents think the public drafts sites influence the actual draft.

Jon G has always loved (overrated?) the Euros, even before his site collected much attention, even back in the DraftCity.com days. I think it's mostly self-justification to fly overseas to scout, except that quality Euros have been making a positive difference over here.