Political Roundtable/Black hole of doom Part Deux

[Zonkerbl]

Gloom, despair, and agony on me
Deep, dark depression, excessive misery
If it weren't for bad luck, I'd have no luck at all
Gloom, despair, and agony on me

Abandon Hope, All Ye Who Enter!

Palin sucks!

[pineappleheadindc]

Uh.

As reference, here is the previous politics thread.

[dobrojim]

Sev will like this (probably Nate too)

So Pinochet ended up facing justice for what he did in Chile.
Shouldn't Friedman (if not deceased) have been a co-conspirator
as well?

How do the neo-lib economists keep getting away with using
crisis, perceived or real, sometimes ones of their own making,
to undemocratically enact policies that had NOTHING to do
with the actual causes of the crisis? It's happened over and
over and the results have been ugly to criminal.


If we want to talk about a flat tax, why not a flat tax on wealth
rather than income?

[Spence]

So dark here... So cold.

[dobrojim]

since we all know red -state cons hate big govt and spending, I wonder
if they would support a law that places a limit on fed spending in every
state roughly proportional to the amount of fed revenue collected in that state.

I think not.

[nate33]

since we all know red -state cons hate big govt and spending, I wonder
if they would support a law that places a limit on fed spending in every
state roughly proportional to the amount of fed revenue collected in that state.

I think not.

I bet they would if the feds would also turn over all the "federal parks" back to the states and allow them to exploit the natural resources therein.

[dobrojim]

Why should the feds give Natl Parks away when in many/most cases
they had to pay for them to acquire? They weren't free.

even at that, I doubt they'd come out ahead without making
the parks themselves much more expensive than they are now.

The states with large attractive natl parks already get a
windfall from the tourism generated and all the jobs
associated with that.

[Severn Hoos]

Sev will like this (probably Nate too)

So Pinochet ended up facing justice for what he did in Chile.
Shouldn't Friedman (if not deceased) have been a co-conspirator
as well?

Depends - can we indict all the moronic college dopes who wear Che T-shirts too?

[dobrojim]

Sev will like this (probably Nate too)

So Pinochet ended up facing justice for what he did in Chile.
Shouldn't Friedman (if not deceased) have been a co-conspirator
as well?

Depends - can we indict all the moronic college dopes who wear Che T-shirts too?

indict them for.....being morons? trying to be cool to pick up chicks?
Not sure what the charge would be.

What the Chi Boyz did hurt millions of people.

[Severn Hoos]

Well, it's a throwaway line - hence the green font.

How about this: Any issue with Jimmy Carter's love-ins with the Castro boys? Durante & the USSR? Joe Kennedy and the Third Reich? To paraphrase the great Bobby D (no, the other one): "Oh, the line forms on the left, babe..."

[Spence]

Behold what Obama Socialism hath wrought: The Dow just posted its best quarter in 12 years.

How will capitalism survive this assault upon the markets?

[nate33]

Behold what Obama Socialism hath wrought: The Dow just posted its best quarter in 12 years.

How will capitalism survive this assault upon the markets?

More like, "behold what Ben Bernanke's printing press hath wrought".

You want to know what else has had a very good run recently?

OIL:


SUGAR:


COPPER:


SILVER:


GOLD:

[dobrojim]

where else besides the market are people going to invest,
those who have any money to invest anyway?

Money market funds are paying nothing.
Bonds are risky given that interest rates are expected
to rise (only direction they can go). So the money has
no where else to go but into equities.

That said there are plenty of folks who believe
that another crash is anywhere from possible to
probable to inevitable given the crooks that still
are in charge and the fecklessness of the pol class
to reign them in. Something to worry about.

But in response to Spence, of course the market's
doing well, a Dem is in the White House. That's
not unusual. The right goes crazy with charges of impending
doom and socialism while businesses makes record profits.

[Spence]

But in response to Spence, of course the market's
doing well, a Dem is in the White House. That's
not unusual. The right goes crazy with charges of impending
doom and socialism while businesses makes record profits.

Yup, that was pretty much my point. I'm not sure why Obama has to destroy capitalism, though. If I recall correctly [and I do], Clinton already destroyed capitalism in the 1990s. Ah, that was a terrible decade for American business, the 1990s. The GOP predicted the economy would go into Depression when the Clinton tax rates took effect and, alas, they were right. Nobody made any money after that.

[Spence]

More evidence that President Obama has turned America into a bleak, socialist dystopia:

The heads of the nation’s top companies got the biggest raises in recent memory last year after taking a hiatus during the recession.

At a time most employees can barely remember their last substantial raise, median CEO pay jumped 27% in 2010 as the executives’ compensation started working its way back to prerecession levels, a USA TODAY analysis of data from GovernanceMetrics International found. Workers in private industry, meanwhile, saw their compensation grow just 2.1% in the 12 months ended December 2010, says the Bureau of Labor Statistics.

Oh, well. I'm sure this is because workers are just lazy bastards while all those poor, hard-working CEOs have been delivering gonzo corporate profits.

The sizable pay hikes came even though the economy’s recovery remains frail, unemployment is high and corporate profits last year were roughly flat, up 1.5%, from where they were in 2007 when the stock market peaked.

Hmmm. Oh, well. The important thing to remember is that this isn't yet another case of self-dealing by corrupt CEOs and corporate BoGs because that never happens and never will. This is just the free market at work. When workers demand a share of the profits, that's union thuggery. When corporate officers give themselves a raise, that's the Invisible Hand. So shut up and eat your cake.

[Cramer]

Kind of random but seems like the right thread. Falls into the "dinner with a guy that's not the drunk you grew up with and might be in way over my head" catagory.

Had dinner last night with the wife at Morton's for her birthday with her friend and her husband. "Her husband" being John Brennan...Deputy National Security Advisor for Homeland Security and Counterterrorism, and Assistant to the President. A really cool guy and a very nice dinner companion.

My favorite part was:
Me: So if you call Obama right now he'll answer?"
JB: Oh yea, absolutely (with a look that says stupid question)."
Me: "You know you could give me a story right now that I could milk for the rest of my life."
JB: "Not happening..."
Me: I'll pick up the whole.........."
JB: "Not happening"
Me: Alright, so who killed Kennedy?"
JB: <blank look>
Me: "Got it.............damn shame about VCU, eh?"

[hands11]

Cant wait till we get past this next election where the GOP will not only lose the race but they will likely lose the house and a ton of governorships. Then we can get back to work fixing this mess they created.

Its not like fixing it is all that complicated.

Just reverse the Bush tax cuts for the top 1%
Close the corporate loop holes like Reagan did before.
Get the estate taxes back to Clinton levels
Get out of Iraq and Afghanistan.
Fund and enforce Wall Street
Change the oil speculation margin requirements
Cut defense spending

Basically do most the things Clinton did to fix this last time.

That will take care of at least 70-80% of what needs done.

[Spence]

Kind of random but seems like the right thread. Falls into the "dinner with a guy that's not the drunk you grew up with and might be in way over my head" catagory.

Had dinner last night with the wife at Morton's for her birthday with her friend and her husband. "Her husband" being John Brennan...Deputy National Security Advisor for Homeland Security and Counterterrorism, and Assistant to the President. A really cool guy and a very nice dinner companion.

My favorite part was:
Me: So if you call Obama right now he'll answer?"
JB: Oh yea, absolutely (with a look that says stupid question)."
Me: "You know you could give me a story right now that I could milk for the rest of my life."
JB: "Not happening..."
Me: I'll pick up the whole.........."
JB: "Not happening"
Me: Alright, so who killed Kennedy?"
JB: <blank look>
Me: "Got it.............damn shame about VCU, eh?"

Great story!

[nate33]

Cant wait till we get past this next election where the GOP will not only lose the race but they will likely lose the house and a ton of governorships. Then we can get back to work fixing this mess they created.

Its not like fixing it is all that complicated.

Just reverse the Bush tax cuts for the top 1%
Close the corporate loop holes like Reagan did before.
Get the estate taxes back to Clinton levels
Get out of Iraq and Afghanistan.
Fund and enforce Wall Street
Change the oil speculation margin requirements
Cut defense spending

Basically do most the things Clinton did to fix this last time.

That will take care of at least 70-80% of what needs done.

Why didn't Obama get any of this done when he had total control of the Presidency, House and Senate? You can argue that the Republicans would have filibustered the tax cuts, but Obama should have been able to implement most of the other stuff.

[hands11]

Cant wait till we get past this next election where the GOP will not only lose the race but they will likely lose the house and a ton of governorships. Then we can get back to work fixing this mess they created.

Its not like fixing it is all that complicated.

Just reverse the Bush tax cuts for the top 1%
Close the corporate loop holes like Reagan did before.
Get the estate taxes back to Clinton levels
Get out of Iraq and Afghanistan.
Fund and enforce Wall Street
Change the oil speculation margin requirements
Cut defense spending

Basically do most the things Clinton did to fix this last time.

That will take care of at least 70-80% of what needs done.

Why didn't Obama get any of this done when he had total control of the Presidency, House and Senate? You can argue that the Republicans would have filibustered the tax cuts, but Obama should have been able to implement most of the other stuff.

Really. He implemented plenty of stuff that I'm glad he did and he got little support from the Republicans in doing it. Actually they are still fighting him. For the good of the country? NO. Only so they can try to win political leverage and do more of what this house and the new governor are doing. I have news for you. They are going to fail and get crushed this next election. Best thing they have done for this country is show their true colors and awake the masses.

Obama and the Dems got a ton done that averted the next great depression. Saved the auto industry and millions of jobs. Passed health care reform. The stimulus package. At least as much of it as he could. It should have been bigger. Consumer protection reform. Funded wall street enforcement that the Republicans are now trying to defund. The freakn Banks were failing. At least Bush did something to help that after he allowed it to happen by regulating things so it would happen to begin with. Do you remember that? Did end the War in Iraq on schedule but we still have some people there.

The Senate is a mess and you know it. He got a ton done but just because they have majorities in the two branches doesn't mean you can do everything because of the Senate rules. He tried to reverse the Bush tax cuts but couldn't get it through the Senate because of the Republicans so he compromised and got what he could. Couldn't get out of Afghanistan yet. That place isn't ready for us to leave.

So we just have to wait till we get past this election, then they can get back to work doing the rest. Sorry. The Republican party is a total joke and is the main reason we are in the mess we are in. The propaganda party. The party of spin. This budget isn't going to get fixed cutting Pell Grants and food stamps. It is going to get fixed by getting corporations and mega rich people to pay their share of taxes and by cutting defense spending. You are not going to honestly say that is the Dems stopping that from happening. Clinton cut the military and the Republicans used that to fool the stupid American people who don't know any better that he made them unsafe. WE CAN NOT AFFORD THIS MILITARY AT THIS LEVEL AND WE CANT AFFORD CORPORATIONS AND RICH ASS PEOPLE NOT PAYING MORE TAXES LIKE THEY USED TO. ITS NOT THE WORKERS AND POOR MAKING THE BUDGET UNBALANCED.

The propaganda. We don't have a tax problem. We are collecting enough. We have a spending problem. Wrong. Well kind of. We have a tax problem by not collecting enough from the right people and we have a spending problem by spending on the wrong stuff. We have already had a transfer of wealth. It was up to the richest people.

I can't even hide my disdain for the Republican party anymore. They are destroying this country and selling it to the rich and multinational corporation. Bush was an epic fail and totally messed up a great situation handed to him from Clinton.

But I'm really not that worried. The Dems are going to crush this election cycle and the demographic being what they are, the Republican party will struggle to survive. The Dems are going to control government for a generation after this election. Between Clinton bailing things out last time and Obama doing it this time, all that will be left is the crappy Bush years in between those two success stories. It will take a generation to forget those facts.