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Draft Thread Continued. 2011 part two...

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Re: Draft Thread Continued. 2011 part two... 

Post#321 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Mon Apr 4, 2011 5:24 am

Dark Faze wrote:
Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:I actually had the thought today, hands. People forget the price of obtaining Howard could be like New York paid to get Amare, only worse in that McGee and other bigs with promise will be giving along with picks and salary.

Might be better to surround McGee with a bunch of skill and talent and to go get guys like Glen Davis, Leon Powe, Varejao, etc. to bother Howard. A better player to pursue might be Lamar Odom, once OKC knocks the Lakers off the top of the heap. He might have 3-5 more good years. He's not Dwight Howard, but if you add a superstar to the Wizards in this draft the next step is to get good veterans that win games, but do so economically.

Odom would be a guy to pursue. Dwight's going to cost the moon and the stars.

Horford would be a guy to target after next season, because you just KNOW the Hawks are caving.


No offense but you kind of sound like JaVale has already arrived or something. There's a 50% chance that we even extend him in a couple of years right now. Don't let the last 10 or so games of the season fool you, until the kid shows maximum effort for an entire season (and even next year is potentially fools gold given its a contract year) then talking about keeping him over a guy like Dwight is nuts.

Its impossible to tell what it would cost to get Dwight. I'm pretty sure the new CBA is going to allow for more flexibility as it concerns trades, so a salary match within 80% or whatever value it is isn't going to be necessary.

All of that is meaningless though if we don't surge though. If we don't win at least 30+ games next year then Dwight won't even consider this squad.

It would be hard for me to choose between Kanter and Perry Jones if we end up dropping badly in the draft. I'm not high on Kanter at all. I have more confidence in Zeller or Harrellson at this point for the simple fact that they played a season and we actually saw them playing. I'd hate to take a shot at a guy who even as a ceiling is not projected to be that dominant of a big man, let alone a guy who hasn't played for a year, isn't from the U.S and has had rumors about health issues.

I would rather just take a shot at Perry and call it a day on that one--even though Perry has a 60% chance to bust.

I've said before that if we don't get Derrick Williams then I'd go so far as to consider trading up to get him. I'm not saying I'd give up a ton, but if we can give up our ATL pick and 1st rounder to do it then I wouldn't be mad...we have a ton of depth on this team already and the potential for a Faried or Honeycutt isn't worth missing on a guy like Williams to me.


No offense was taken, Dark Faze. I know what McGee did in preseason last year, compared to what Francisco Oberto did. His performance of late has IMO NOTHING to do with effort and everything to do with opportunity. With Blatche and Young out, Lewis injured, and a scoring guard who also can pass giving him the ball, McGee did what he's been doing all along. His eFG% has been 55% all along. So, he's finally slowing down on post moves and not responding to shot fakes? Okay, he's learning but that's got nothing to do with sudden effort. McGee has been giving good effort all along.

Howard would only consider this squad IMO if the Wizards make the playoffs next season and some how advance a round. They have a young, dynamic squad. Presumably, Lewis will come off the bench next season. Wall is going to be a different player IMO. Crawford is a stud. McGee is a stud. Blatche if he is part of the team will play like he's playing now.

That young nucleus with whoever the Wizards add in the draft and free agency--and quite possibly at head coach are what could attract Dwight. NOT LIKELY at all, but it is possible.

Dark Faze, I agree 100% on trading up for Williams if necessary to get him.
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Re: Draft Thread Continued. 2011 part two... 

Post#322 » by theboomking » Mon Apr 4, 2011 5:58 am

What do you guys see as the ceiling, most likely production, and floor of DWilliams?
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Re: Draft Thread Continued. 2011 part two... 

Post#323 » by doclinkin » Mon Apr 4, 2011 6:50 am

Ed Wood wrote:Well at a certain point you have to assume the last few blue chips standing will hang around because it's hard to love college enough to pass up a surefire top five pick when you're probably more of a top ten kinda guy in less interesting times.

That or if everybody continues to get out of the pool you might start to wonder if minders are spreading the word that things are going to get ugly come the end of the season. On the flip side anything that increases the chances of the team drafting Valanciunas and allowing me to enjoy people coming out of the woodwork to post their angst at having drafted a guy draft.net compares to Primoz Brezic is not entirely without merit.

And Doc did you seriously just pull a "kiss the rings" on Chris Paul?


Did I? Shxt, hmmn, yes I did. I'm not even 100% sure what I'm saying with this, or how it relates to Kemba in any positive light (much less John Wall) or has anything to do with Kyrie Irving, but I get tired of Chris Paul as the metric for world's greatest point guard, when in fact you don't see all NBA champions succeeding with a ball dominant 'pure' point guard, doling out assists to everyone like the ladle guy at the soup kitchen, funnelling the entire team attack through that dishy ballhandler.

Ok Rajon Rondo, yes, I suppose, which is a hopeful comparison for our boy John Wall since both are long rangy PGs with sometimey outside shots. RaRo is the player whose game I'd love to see Johnny Balls emulate: in perimeter defense, precocious rebounding, decision-making, half-court attack, etc. He ain't there yet, but could be closer if he had three veteran allstars to dump off to, and reliable interior defenders behind him.

In general though it seems like the NBA champs don't really need that 10 ast/game player, and teams that land a dominant PG tend to rise to swift mediocrity, pretty good not great. So far we're lucky enough not to have that problem... And in truth if we can similarly follow Rondo's path to success (stockpile high draft picks and developing talent/upside guys next to him, then swap them all for instant legitimacy and Finals contention) well then, I'm sure we'd all take it. But until then I'm saying if we add tough-minded clutch individuals who have shown an aptitude to improve and a good attitude and a track record of winning ball when the stakes are highest, well then, I'm thinking that's a better route to a good team foundation than simply adding the creme de la phenom du jour.

Or more succinctly
1. Kyrie Irving is good. Talented. Also has a good all-court sense, can score at will. He'll be good. May improve a bad team right out of the lotto.

2. Kemba Walker will have to be a role playing PG at the next level, back-up guy for a few years before starting, but he makes few mistakes and has shown an ability to workshop on the fly. Seems like he may land on a team of lesser suck, thus may have time to do the work he needs. I like his chances to play deep into the post season in his career.

3. John Wall not equals Rajon, but if you squint, things get blurry.

4. Chris Paul, big whoop.
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Re: Draft Thread Continued. 2011 part two... 

Post#324 » by thinker07 » Mon Apr 4, 2011 12:52 pm

With all the tanking talk - don't forget that last year the Wiz finished in the 4/5 slot and got the top pick. Philly finished in the 6/7 spot and got the second pick. The Nets had the worst record and picked 3rd. Minnesota had the 2nd worst record and picked 4th; Sacramento had the 3rd worst record and picked 5th. In the lotto it's better to be lucky than bad.
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Re: Draft Thread Continued. 2011 part two... 

Post#325 » by Dark Faze » Mon Apr 4, 2011 12:55 pm

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:No offense was taken, Dark Faze. I know what McGee did in preseason last year, compared to what Francisco Oberto did. His performance of late has IMO NOTHING to do with effort and everything to do with opportunity. With Blatche and Young out, Lewis injured, and a scoring guard who also can pass giving him the ball, McGee did what he's been doing all along. His eFG% has been 55% all along. So, he's finally slowing down on post moves and not responding to shot fakes? Okay, he's learning but that's got nothing to do with sudden effort. McGee has been giving good effort all along.

Howard would only consider this squad IMO if the Wizards make the playoffs next season and some how advance a round. They have a young, dynamic squad. Presumably, Lewis will come off the bench next season. Wall is going to be a different player IMO. Crawford is a stud. McGee is a stud. Blatche if he is part of the team will play like he's playing now.

That young nucleus with whoever the Wizards add in the draft and free agency--and quite possibly at head coach are what could attract Dwight. NOT LIKELY at all, but it is possible.

Dark Faze, I agree 100% on trading up for Williams if necessary to get him.


I agree with most of your post, the only thing I will say about the bolded is that the hustle has always been there, but the problem is has that effort been there in the off-season? Who has he worked with to improve his offensive skill set? Has he watched film? We have a front court that's 6'10/6'11 and 7 foot starting and neither average 10rpg. You see a guy coming off of multiple knee surgeries in Andrew Bynum, with less athleticism, surrounded by two boarding freaks in Gasol, Odom, and Bryant, and he's averaging more rpg than Javale in less minutes.
I enjoy JaVale. I want to extend him if the price is right, but he's got to show me that he can be a starter on a championship club next year.

theboomking wrote:What do you guys see as the ceiling, most likely production, and floor of DWilliams?


Too many variables with the guy to tell. A guy like him really needs to be on the right team. Wizards sans Blatche would be a perfect match--it'd open him up to more touches and he'd get easy buckets with Wall at point.

He is simply an extremely efficient player. His efficiency and ability to get to the line at the college level hasn't been matched by any player that I've looked at statistically. Will he play PF or SF? I suspect he'll try both for our club.

As much as people hate on Beasley (someone that people are so scared D. Williams could become) --he shot 47% at 14 ppg in only 25 minutes per his rookie year. The following year was so much about Wade bailing that I don't know if the coaching staff ever gave him a real shot and his confidence died (of course a lot of that was also due to his low IQ and off the court disasters). Now in a new situation he's rolling with 18 and 5 on 45% shooting in only 32 minutes.

Differences between Beasley and Williams- Ridiculous IQ difference, ridiculous maturity difference, Williams is a more well rounded offensive player thats willing to bang inside and board.

So 18 and 5 is Williams' floor imo, at least by his third year.

His ceiling? I really have no idea. We have a 7 footer named Javale here who hopefully starts grabbing more boards, we have a kid named Wall who is going to probably average close to 5 next season, it's just hard to say. I'd be disappointed if Williams wasn't averaging 22 ppg by his third year though.
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Re: Draft Thread Continued. 2011 part two... 

Post#326 » by Rafael122 » Mon Apr 4, 2011 2:00 pm

David West type, maybe with a weaker inside game. Kinda like a more efficient Michael Beasley/David West hybrid.
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Re: Draft Thread Continued. 2011 part two... 

Post#327 » by Wizardspride » Mon Apr 4, 2011 2:47 pm

Dark Faze wrote: h

I agree with most of your post, the only thing I will say about the bolded is that the hustle has always been there, but the problem is has that effort been there in the off-season? Who has he worked with to improve his offensive skill set? Has he watched film?

From everything I've read/heard, McGee works extremely hard on his game during the offseason.

Thats never been an issue.

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Re: Draft Thread Continued. 2011 part two... 

Post#328 » by Dark Faze » Mon Apr 4, 2011 2:53 pm

So whats the problem with his development then? Is it all blatche? All coaching? All IQ?

Because a guy with his physical abilities paired with the work ethic thats being described to me should not result in a 10 and 8 season in his 3rd year given the fact that there have been zero chains whatsoever in a season for the wizards thats been all about player growth.
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Re: Draft Thread Continued. 2011 part two... 

Post#329 » by Rafael122 » Mon Apr 4, 2011 3:33 pm

Dark Faze wrote:So whats the problem with his development then? Is it all blatche? All coaching? All IQ?

Because a guy with his physical abilities paired with the work ethic thats being described to me should not result in a 10 and 8 season in his 3rd year given the fact that there have been zero chains whatsoever in a season for the wizards thats been all about player growth.


I think a lot of it as to do with basketball IQ. I'm not calling him an idiot by any means, but he needs to improve his bball IQ. I mean, it can't get worse so.
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Re: Draft Thread Continued. 2011 part two... 

Post#330 » by pcbothwel » Mon Apr 4, 2011 6:22 pm

ugghh, Barnes goes back. If we get stuck with T. Jones, Alec Burks, Morris, etc., all the while putting up with this disgrace of a season I am gonna be pissed.

It will be a real test to EG and how well he can scout Valanciunas, Vesely, Perry Jones, and Montejunas.
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Re: Draft Thread Continued. 2011 part two... 

Post#331 » by daSwami » Mon Apr 4, 2011 6:25 pm

I liken D. Williams to James Worthy insofar as they are similar in size/skill-set. I think Worthy's true bball skills have been somewhat marginalized in the shadow of Magic and Kareem. The guy could do it all - low post moves, face up and shoot, and finish on the break.
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Re: Draft Thread Continued. 2011 part two... 

Post#332 » by BruceO » Mon Apr 4, 2011 6:28 pm

btw i think i like the 2012 small forwards compared to this draft. i have a feeling after this draft we end up bottoms next year and start winning after that. so roughly a year and a few months from now tanking process will be complete with wall, 2011 blue chip, 2012 blue chip, craw, nick, javale, blatche. rashard will be gone huge expiry to sign new players. plus booker, seraphin, 19 pick and two second rounders
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Re: Draft Thread Continued. 2011 part two... 

Post#333 » by DaRealHibachi » Mon Apr 4, 2011 9:33 pm

Rafael122 wrote:
Dark Faze wrote:So whats the problem with his development then? Is it all blatche? All coaching? All IQ?

Because a guy with his physical abilities paired with the work ethic thats being described to me should not result in a 10 and 8 season in his 3rd year given the fact that there have been zero chains whatsoever in a season for the wizards thats been all about player growth.


I think a lot of it as to do with basketball IQ. I'm not calling him an idiot by any means, but he needs to improve his bball IQ. I mean, it can't get worse so.


It may be what both of you guys say, I think it's the fact that we as a team don't force enough misses... The more misses we force, the more rebounds we get to secure...

But whatever it is, I do agree with the fact that McGee needs to hit the boards more; having a big RB% on a bad rebounding team isn't really saying anything...
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Re: Draft Thread Continued. 2011 part two... 

Post#334 » by Dark Faze » Mon Apr 4, 2011 11:53 pm

I'm hearing a rumor that Kanter is turning down the hoops summit this year...ya know, the same one he basically carved his name from last year?

If he's not going to showcase his talents again after a year of performing then he can fall right off my draftboard (and hopefully the Wiz front office as well). Seriously.

With Kanter off my board and Sully and Barnes not coming back...just...what the heck do we do? I've been driving the trade up for Williams train if it comes to that (Still am), but the other options like really bad if thats not possible...

Its looking more and more likely that we'll have to depend on the FO to make a quality decision rather than having the obvious one fall into their laps ala Wall, which scares me a bit. I'm thinking a trade is going to happen for a team thats hungry for a Brandon Knight or Kemba Walker, but I just don't know if there are any young assets from other teams that I'm that interested in. Our pick for Monroe? Cousins? Unlikely...
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Re: Draft Thread Continued. 2011 part two... 

Post#335 » by TGW » Tue Apr 5, 2011 12:07 am

daSwami wrote:I liken D. Williams to James Worthy insofar as they are similar in size/skill-set. I think Worthy's true bball skills have been somewhat marginalized in the shadow of Magic and Kareem. The guy could do it all - low post moves, face up and shoot, and finish on the break.


Wow...I didn't think about that one, but that's a great comparison. I was thinking Jamison with more ball skills but JW is a very valid comparison to Williams.
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Re: Draft Thread Continued. 2011 part two... 

Post#336 » by SUPERBALLMAN » Tue Apr 5, 2011 12:11 am

TGW wrote:
daSwami wrote:I liken D. Williams to James Worthy insofar as they are similar in size/skill-set. I think Worthy's true bball skills have been somewhat marginalized in the shadow of Magic and Kareem. The guy could do it all - low post moves, face up and shoot, and finish on the break.


Wow...I didn't think about that one, but that's a great comparison. I was thinking Jamison with more ball skills but JW is a very valid comparison to Williams.



Yeah I agree. It's hard to think of a player with the explosion inside with the outside shooting. I've been thinking something like a Jamison/Butler hybrid. But Worthy is a worthy comparison indeed.
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Re: Draft Thread Continued. 2011 part two... 

Post#337 » by Dat2U » Tue Apr 5, 2011 12:29 am

I wasn't in love with either Barnes or Sullinger but if they're not in this draft, yikes! Both were worthy of a top 10 pick and I know many thought of them as a top 5 pick. I don't even think I have a coherent top 5 at this point.

Kanter is like the mystery meat served in the school cafeteria. No one really knows for certain what he brings to the table. Honestly I'd be scared to death of getting the next Skita or Darko b/c I know so little about him. When you add in the fact that doc (who's opinion I trust mightily in terms of the draft) worries about his hands and how he bobbles passes, that's like the biggest red flag you could give me when it comes to analyzing a big man prospect. Especially after the Kwame years.

Valanciunas seems like a long term project that probably needs another year or two overseas. And I don't see great upside there either. I just wouldn't feel comfortable drafting him unless its around 10 or later.

I'm starting to ask myself can Kyrie Irving, Kemba Walker & Brandon Knight play alongside John Wall? Because honestly these 3 are now in the top 5 of my draft board. And I don't know who else to consider with our pick outside of Derrick Williams and Perry Jones.
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Re: Draft Thread Continued. 2011 part two... 

Post#338 » by Jay81 » Tue Apr 5, 2011 12:44 am

the players that are staying in college are idiots becasuse if they come out next year in a stronger draft class, they might get picked lower than they would of this year and thus less money.

Basically, unless we have the #1 or #2 pick, this draft is a complete disaster. Maybe we can trade the pick for like a Josh Smith or Horford or someone since atlanta is going to get blown up
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Re: Draft Thread Continued. 2011 part two... 

Post#339 » by Ruzious » Tue Apr 5, 2011 12:51 am

No disrespect to Doc about Kanter, but I disagree with him about Kanter's hands. I have no idea what size his hands are, but every report on him and every youtube video that I've seen shows soft hands and good instincts to the ball. Granted they're almost all highlights, but I'd be willing to bet this guy becomes a 20/10 guy early in his NBA career. Some players, you don't have to see a lot of to realize they've got "it". He (unlike Jonas) is one of those players. He's not a super athlete, but he moves very fluidly (much moreso than Jonas) and has a natural feel for the game. And he's a freaking moose. If you're old enough to remember Jeff Ruland, he's an almost exact duplicate - hopefully not down to the knees - since that's what did Ruland in. Will he give up points? Probably so, but that remains to be seen and his defensive rebounding and physicality should make up for it.
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Re: Draft Thread Continued. 2011 part two... 

Post#340 » by SUPERBALLMAN » Tue Apr 5, 2011 12:51 am

Yeah Dat2U, Barnes was basically my consolation pick if we miss out on Williams. Now it's Williams or bust!

Kanter, and both PJones & TJones are possibilities if we miss out.
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