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Avery Likes and Wants Thaddeus Young

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Avery Likes and Wants Thaddeus Young 

Post#1 » by NyCeEvO » Sat Apr 2, 2011 5:44 pm

Avery Johnson loves Thaddeus Young, a free-agent-to-be

BY Stefan Bondy


The Nets will have plenty of cap space for free agency, although this year’s crop isn’t as prolific as the last and, conceivably, the next. One player who should garner their attention is Philadelphia forward Thaddeus Young, a restricted free agent after this season, who dominated the Nets on Friday by scoring 22 points on 9-of-12 from the field.

Even before Young’s standout performance in Philadelphia's 115-90 victory, coach Avery Johnson was gushing about the 22-year-old. He’s not on the level of New Jersey’s 2012 target, Dwight Howard, but he’s the type of versatile forward the Nets are missing (and thought they were getting with Travis Outlaw).

“If (Young) didn’t have the type of year he’s had, I don’t think the (76ers) would be a playoff team,” Johnson said. “He’s kind of the MVP of the team.”

The 76ers will likely extend an offer sheet to Young and try to match whatever else surfaces, but are in a tough spot because he plays behind Elton Brand and Andre Iguodala and their big contracts. Both Brand and Iguodala are signed through the 2012-13 season. Young was the subject of trade rumors before the February deadline seems intrigued by free agency.

“In order to find out what I’m worth, it’s a must,” he said. “You have to find a team in order to get paid being a restricted free agent.”

Ironically, Young’s current GM – Rod Thorn – is responsible for negotiating a good portion of the contracts on the Nets’ roster. Thorn brought in Outlaw, Anthony Morrow, Jordan Farmar and Johan Petro over the summer.

“Some have played better than others,” Thorn said. “A couple of them have played well, a couple of them have played as well but overall I think they have a much better bench than we had last year. They have much better players than we had. So they’re on the right road.”

“You have to look at what’s available,” he added. “We made a big push for Boozer. We didn’t get him. We made out push at Tyrus Thomas. We didn’t end up getting him. So it’s who’s available. We had a lot of spots to fill so we ended up signing the guys that we signed.”

Avery must've saw the same things that I saw. About a week ago, I made a post in the Rebuildation thread asking about Thaddeus Young. He's exactly what we wanted Outlaw to be and he's only 22. I like the kid and started looking him up before he thrashed us last night. He's skilled and actually knows how to dribble a basketball. And he's been getting better every single year. I can definitely see him blossoming into a very good SF (not star level, but very solid). What do you guys think?

However, if Avery likes this kid that much and we give him a near Outlaw like contract, Outlaw must go and most likely in some complicated multi-team deal. The only place where he even remotely might be wanted is back in Portland since he did ok for them.

Btw, I think the last paragraph of the article was Avery talking, not Thorn because it doesn't make sense why the Sixers would go after Boozer and Tyrus when they already have forwards with large contracts.
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Re: Avery Likes and Wants Thaddeus Young 

Post#2 » by 8 Mile Ilic » Sat Apr 2, 2011 6:08 pm

YES.

PLEASE SIGN "THADDEUS YOUNG TRAVIS OUTLAW".

:-?

Of the three major tweener SF-PF's the Nets will likely go after this season Young is the one I'd want them to pursue the least. Go figure. FML.
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Re: Avery Likes and Wants Thaddeus Young 

Post#3 » by NyCeEvO » Sat Apr 2, 2011 6:13 pm

What are the other tweeners you want them to sign?
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Re: Avery Likes and Wants Thaddeus Young 

Post#4 » by 8 Mile Ilic » Sat Apr 2, 2011 6:22 pm

NyCeEvO wrote:What are the other tweeners you want them to sign?


I'd rather the Nets not sign any of the Big 3 Tweeners this year but in order from which signing I'd hate the least to which signing I'd hate the most:

1. Jeff Green
2. Wilson Chandler
3. Thaddeus Young
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Re: Avery Likes and Wants Thaddeus Young 

Post#5 » by tk76 » Sat Apr 2, 2011 6:29 pm

You don't have to worry, because the Sixers will re-sign Thaddeus. As a Sixer fan I just hope they don't have to over-pay.

Thad is coach Collins' favorite player, so they will match whatever is offered. And BTW, Thad failed several years in a row to play SF, so now plays exclusively as an undersized PF.

As for the other tweeners on the market, Young may be limited to being a bench player because of his lack of size at PF- but he's the only one who is an impact player when he's on the floor. Get the right match-up and he flat out abuses people. He's a high volume scorer who shoots 54% from the field and scores on isolations. But its always hard to figure the right price for a guy who you can't get on the floor more than 30 minutes a night because he is too undersized to start. Sort of like the PF version of Jason Terry.

8 Mile Ilic wrote:
NyCeEvO wrote:What are the other tweeners you want them to sign?


I'd rather the Nets not sign any of the Big 3 Tweeners this year but in order from which signing I'd hate the least to which signing I'd hate the most:

1. Jeff Green
2. Wilson Chandler
3. Thaddeus Young


Look at their player comparisons. Young is the more productive player by a wide margin:

http://bkref.com/tiny/Ympl5

Young by far has the best FG%, TS%, eFG%, PER, WS, WS/48. Treb%, stl%, Ortg, Drtg, and per min pts and reb. The raw numbers are only close becasue the other two play 10 min more a game. I'm guessing you are higher on Green and Chandler because you have seen them play a bunch more- while the Sixers are rarely on TV.
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Re: Avery Likes and Wants Thaddeus Young 

Post#6 » by NyCeEvO » Sat Apr 2, 2011 6:44 pm

tk76 wrote:You don't have to worry, because the Sixers will re-sign Thaddeus. As a Sixer fan I just hope they don't have to over-pay.

Thad is coach Collins' favorite player, so they will match whatever is offered. And BTW, Thad failed several years in a row to play SF, so now plays exclusively as an undersized PF.

As for the other tweeners on the market, Young may be limited to being a bench player because of his lack of size at PF- but he's the only one who is an impact player when he's on the floor. Get the right match-up and he flat out abuses people. He's a high volume scorer who shoots 54% from the field and scores on isolations. But its always hard to figure the right price for a guy who you can't get on the floor more than 30 minutes a night because he is too undersized to start. Sort of like the PF version of Jason Terry.


Thanks for the info. It will be interesting to see what offer sheet he gets from other teams and see if the Sixers are willing to match other teams. I agree with your assessment of Young too. He's pretty talented.

8 mile, why do you like Jeff Green more than Thaddeus Young? Even on a team full of forwards, Thaddeus Young's PER is 18.66 while Jeff Green has a PER of 13.01. Green has always played more minutes than Young (which is why there is small differential in points) and yet I don't see the same versatility that Young has.

Also, Wilson Chandler is not a tweener SF/PF. You can make an argument for him being a tweener SG/SF but he's definitely not an SF/PF. I don't see why he's on this list other than the fact that he's 6'8" on paper.
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Re: Avery Likes and Wants Thaddeus Young 

Post#7 » by tk76 » Sat Apr 2, 2011 6:48 pm

And to be honest, the Nets should focus their resources on landing another true star to pair with D-Will. Its a mistake to overpay good players- cause then you are stuck not being able to add great ones. Its a lesson that the Sixers (Iguodala and Brand making 30M) have learned all too well.
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Re: Avery Likes and Wants Thaddeus Young 

Post#8 » by 8 Mile Ilic » Sat Apr 2, 2011 6:57 pm

Chandler is a sub-par ballhandler and up until this year he was always a suspect perimeter shooter.

The reason his scoring is "up" this year is because he STRICTLY played power forward for the Knicks and was able to take bigger slower players off the dribble. Against players his size, that is to say other wing players, Chandler has proven time and time again that he CAN NOT consistently get to the cup.

That's a fatal flaw to have on a team that seems pretty committed to another wing player (Anthony Morrow) who is terrible at creating his own shot. Deron can make any wing player respectable but for what he's going to command Wilson Chandler won't be worth it.
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Re: Avery Likes and Wants Thaddeus Young 

Post#9 » by NyCeEvO » Sat Apr 2, 2011 7:16 pm

tk76 wrote:And to be honest, the Nets should focus their resources on landing another true star to pair with D-Will. Its a mistake to overpay good players- cause then you are stuck not being able to add great ones. Its a lesson that the Sixers (Iguodala and Brand making 30M) have learned all too well.

I agree man. Not to slight you guys or anything, but I've always said that I didn't want to what the Sixers did because not it seems that you'll probably a lower seeded playoff team for 2 more seasons unless you guys trade one of those contracts for someone better. And I'm sure you know too, that it's really hard to trade for another great player. The best players with cap friendly contracts are Granger and Monta Ellis. I'd obviously prefer Granger but unless the Pacers are that high on Paul George, I doubt they'll trade him.

8 Mile, you shouldn't gain any wisdom from what the Knicks do. The way they play basketball is completely different from everyone else. When Chandler was there, D'Antoni still had his 7 second rule in place(look to shoot the ball before 7 seconds passes on the shot clock) and therefore their offense was run-and-gun all day. Most teams, including us, don't play that way, and in that type of system, you don't need big players because you just want athletic guys that can run. Just look at the rosters for Phoenix when D'Antoni was there and the Knicks rosters since. He never wanted Eddy Curry's size because he was just too big for them. Chandler could play PF in that system because they always ran and having true PFs and Cs aren't needed. In a more traditional system, Chandler suffers because he doesn't really have the moves to get by his man (as you said). Therefore, he definitely can't play SG. But in a halfcourt set, he can't be used at PF cuz he's not big enough nor can he execute any post moves. The only position left got him is SF on a traditional team.
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Re: Avery Likes and Wants Thaddeus Young 

Post#10 » by tk76 » Sat Apr 2, 2011 10:12 pm

You guys should ID the type of player that will be dramatically better hen they play next to D-Will. That way you get a bargain, because market value on a "normal" team would not yield the same results next to D-Will, so you end up with a bargain.

Figure D-Will will dominate the ball and run best off of the P&R. So you don't want a swing who is known mostly for dribble drive and ball dominant offense (Ellis) or a wing who is not a pure shooter. But most important is to decide if Lopez is the proper fit as his main P&R partner- and if not to find that player.

Or maybe most important is to gauge whether Howard will want to force his way to Brooklyn- which at this point does not seem likely.
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Re: Avery Likes and Wants Thaddeus Young 

Post#11 » by Jersey Generals » Sat Apr 2, 2011 11:52 pm

^Regardless of which player the Nets go after this summer, they're going to be a fit next to Dwight and D-Will because at this point the team is all in on the Howard/Williams dream, whether that idea is right or wrong.
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Re: Avery Likes and Wants Thaddeus Young 

Post#12 » by Jersey Generals » Sat Apr 2, 2011 11:54 pm

I worded that incorrectly on second reading. What I mean is that the player the Nets go after, they're going to particularly target a player that fits next to both D-Will and D12 because of the team's "dream" of uniting the two stars.
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Re: Avery Likes and Wants Thaddeus Young 

Post#13 » by NyCeEvO » Sun Apr 3, 2011 12:15 am

tk76 wrote:You guys should ID the type of player that will be dramatically better hen they play next to D-Will. That way you get a bargain, because market value on a "normal" team would not yield the same results next to D-Will, so you end up with a bargain.

Figure D-Will will dominate the ball and run best off of the P&R. So you don't want a swing who is known mostly for dribble drive and ball dominant offense (Ellis) or a wing who is not a pure shooter. But most important is to decide if Lopez is the proper fit as his main P&R partner- and if not to find that player.

Or maybe most important is to gauge whether Howard will want to force his way to Brooklyn- which at this point does not seem likely.

Yeah, that's what we have been trying to do on the forum. The tough part is creating a package that another team would want and finding a team that wants to trade that their talented player because in the same way that we're looking for a player that would play much better next to Deron, I'm sure that team is looking for a Deron-like player to make their player better. Contract wise the best person to trade would be Outlaw but he's so horrifically bad that know one would want him in a straight deal. The only team that I could even conceive of being willing to take him would be Portland because he filled his role in well there. It's tough to see that.

Also, I can pretty much guarantee that D12 won't force his way to Brooklyn even if he really wanted to play here. He's the first superstar that comes to mind when I think of a star player that cares the most about fans and kids and stuff. Like I don't think he has it in him to flat out say where he wants to go like Melo. IMO the only way to really get him is during this or the next offseason. I wish we had enough pieces to get Granger but I think we'll have to wait until the draft to see if BK can pull of a trade to give us another trading piece to get him or another player like him who's contract is pretty good.
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Re: Avery Likes and Wants Thaddeus Young 

Post#14 » by JoseRizal » Sun Apr 3, 2011 1:32 am

STFU Avery! Clean up your mess in Outlaw first before being warranted a say in FA's again...
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Re: Avery Likes and Wants Thaddeus Young 

Post#15 » by ChampionRed » Mon Apr 4, 2011 5:43 pm

I really don't think any team out there is going to take Outlaw back in a deal. The Nets would really have to sweeten the pot. Is On a separate note, is Josh Smith available? I heard he may be available this summer. And even though the Sixers are doing well this season, is Iggy a moveable piece for them? (Maybe Sixers fans can comment on that situation over.)
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Re: Avery Likes and Wants Thaddeus Young 

Post#16 » by Rockice_8 » Mon Apr 4, 2011 7:04 pm

8 Mile Ilic wrote:Chandler is a sub-par ballhandler and up until this year he was always a suspect perimeter shooter.

The reason his scoring is "up" this year is because he STRICTLY played power forward for the Knicks and was able to take bigger slower players off the dribble. Against players his size, that is to say other wing players, Chandler has proven time and time again that he CAN NOT consistently get to the cup.

That's a fatal flaw to have on a team that seems pretty committed to another wing player (Anthony Morrow) who is terrible at creating his own shot. Deron can make any wing player respectable but for what he's going to command Wilson Chandler won't be worth it.



I think you are completely off on your assessment of Chandler he is a prototypical SF. He is only like 23 and has rapidly improved is almost every area of his game since coming into the league. He plays both ends of the floor and can shoot with consistency. He runs the floor well and would easily be our best wing by far.

Jeff Green would be the worst of the 3 mentioned, he is completely overrated. The only reason Thad shoots a high % is because he doesn't shoot 3's and plays mostly PF. I'd still take him but I don't think he is a full time SF like Chandler. If we can get Chandler for a reasonable price like 7-8 per I think he would work well with D-Will.

Chandler needs to be the top priority.
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Re: Avery Likes and Wants Thaddeus Young 

Post#17 » by 8 Mile Ilic » Mon Apr 4, 2011 7:17 pm

You don't have to like Jeff Green but Chandler can't take anyone off the dribble, create (good) shots for himself, or get to the line... While his defense would be a welcome addition to the team he's just not a good fit offensively.
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Re: Avery Likes and Wants Thaddeus Young 

Post#18 » by NyCeEvO » Mon Apr 4, 2011 8:38 pm

Netsultimatefan63 wrote:I really don't think any team out there is going to take Outlaw back in a deal. The Nets would really have to sweeten the pot.

Yeah, Outlaw is easily the worst 'talent per $' deal in the NBA. He makes $7 million dollars and his PER is 8.7. The league average is 15.0!!! That is ridiculous!
Is On a separate note, is Josh Smith available? I heard he may be available this summer.

You should check the threads about David West as well as the Rebuildation thread. We talked at length about Josh Smith.
And even though the Sixers are doing well this season, is Iggy a moveable piece for them? (Maybe Sixers fans can comment on that situation over.)

We don't know how willing the Sixers are to going well over the cap for their team. Resigning Thaddeus Young could be tough for them considering the new CBA. Also, I don't know if we'd really want to trade with Rod. I'd really doubt that he'd do us any favors so any trade with Philly is probably not a good idea.
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Re: Avery Likes and Wants Thaddeus Young 

Post#19 » by Rockice_8 » Mon Apr 4, 2011 9:23 pm

8 Mile Ilic wrote:You don't have to like Jeff Green but Chandler can't take anyone off the dribble, create (good) shots for himself, or get to the line... While his defense would be a welcome addition to the team he's just not a good fit offensively.



Sure I would love to plug in Granger or Iggy there instead but realistically they might not be obtainable. Chandler is a realistic option and a good one at that. I would not mind one bit if he was are starting SF next season.
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Re: Avery Likes and Wants Thaddeus Young 

Post#20 » by NyCeEvO » Mon Apr 4, 2011 9:32 pm

8 Mile Ilic wrote:You don't have to like Jeff Green but Chandler can't take anyone off the dribble, create (good) shots for himself, or get to the line... While his defense would be a welcome addition to the team he's just not a good fit offensively.

And Jeff Green can do all of that stuff?

I've been watching some film of Wilson Chandler and I have to rescind my comment about him not being able to beat people off the dribble. Here's a video from 2 years ago (before Chandler's breakout season this year). This year he's added shooting to his game. While he's no superstar SF, I think he can definitely bring it.

Here's a video from 2 years ago (before he took his game to new heights):
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWIAAPMj9xc[/youtube]

Here are highlights from his last game as a Knick, which also the last time he was actually a featured player in an offense:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TY6z8V9v8eg[/youtube]

I think we're forgetting something when we analyze Chandler. The average career of NBA player is about 2 seasons. A high percentage of players either suck from the start or they don't improve at all. Chandler has been improving each and every year unlike most NBA players. He went from being only a dunker, to a slasher, to someone who can sometimes get around people, and then he worked on his shooting game this season. He's improved each year. Who says that he can't work on shooting and dribbling this offseason and improve even more? The dude is only 23 and would be cheaper than most other talented SFs. He's disproved everyone who says that he can't do things. He's also a good defender. And even though he might not be that fiery, I'm sure that working with D-Will would bring the fire out of him.

Chandler was a big part of the Knicks surge earlier in the season. If he didn't improve from last year, I doubt the Knicks would've really been able to compete like they did earlier in the season when they actually had an entire team.

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