Arenas Traded for Rashard Lewis

[TheBabyMaker]

Because he no longer has his explosion or lift, Arenas sucked in DC this year. He is continuing to suck in Orlando this year. The difference is that one team is junk and the other a contender, so he put up bigger stats on the junk team.

At least hes out there playing, even if he is sucking. Wheres' Rashard??? Arenas 9-14 (6-11 threes) tonight. Not bad for the sucky player.

[Dat2U]

Because he no longer has his explosion or lift, Arenas sucked in DC this year. He is continuing to suck in Orlando this year. The difference is that one team is junk and the other a contender, so he put up bigger stats on the junk team.

Arenas' role in Orlando is totally different from his role in DC. He struggled in DC too but was much better than he is now. And frankly, he was still one of the team's best players until he got dealt.

He went from being the man, to being pigeonholed into a role playing setup man off the bench. He's not Chris Duhon. Asking him to be Chris Duhon is just plain stupid. If they wanted Chris Duhon they should have never dealt for Gil b/c frankly Chris Duhon can do a better job at being himself than Gilbert Arenas can. I think if they ever let Gil be Gil, his numbers will spike upwards IMO. Gil is a lead guard. A starting lead guard. Not some backup. Not some version of the microwave and certainly not an improved version of Chris Duhon.

The only legitimate reason Wizards fans can give for the trade working out in our favor is that Rashard Lewis is not Gilbert Arenas. Wizards fans or the local media no longer have anyone they can kvetch or insessantly bitch over.

Oh, hello there Mr. Baltche

I don't think the locker room cared one bit if Gil stayed or got dealt. I don't think there was some magical cloud lifted off the locker room once Gil's spirit left the building. We sucked when he was here and we suck just as bad with him gone (It would be hillarious to go back and re-read some of the threads from earlier in the year proclaiming how much better we were without Gil).

The fact is we traded Gilbert Arenas for a guy who started breaking down weeks after he got here. It's funny, Gil was such an injury risk but he's the one that's barely missed any games while Lewis' season has long since been over.

Right now, as bad as Gil has played, his trade value is no worse than Lewis' because at least Gilbert is in his uniform for every game. We got $20 million dollars of dead weight on the bench that is planning on taking injections in his knee in the hopes he can bypass surgery and rehab in the offseason. Wow, that's really inspires optimism that all will be well come next training camp.

At best this trade has been a wash. At least Wizards fans & media can now focus there energies on more important matters nowadays, such as the suck-a-tude of Andray Baltche. Once we get him off the roster, just watch the championship trophies start rolling in.

[Zonkerbl]

I bet those grapes were sour anyway...

[Ruzious]

This thread and the medical staff thread - top 10 choices for worst threads in Internet history.

[NbdyBeatsTheWiz]

Because he no longer has his explosion or lift, Arenas sucked in DC this year. He is continuing to suck in Orlando this year. The difference is that one team is junk and the other a contender, so he put up bigger stats on the junk team.

At least hes out there playing, even if he is sucking. Wheres' Rashard??? Arenas 9-14 (6-11 threes) tonight. Not bad for the sucky player.

I thought part of the point is that we can ask "Where's Rashard???" a couple years from now when he's elsewhere, while Arenas will still be playing out the end of his monstrouscontract for whatever team has still has him.

And seeing as Crawford has been playing about as effectively or moreso than 2011's Gil, I won't be sweating it in the meantime.

[BigA]

Sorry to rehash more of this, but....

From all appearances Gil was mentally and emotionally checked out here and wanted out of DC. His dissatisfaction and desire to leave were getting into the press. It's a pretty sure thing that it would have gotten worse if he'd stayed.

You can assign the responsibility for that to whoever you want, or argue that Ted should have replaced the GM and coach and make other moves with the main goal of making Gil feel wanted. There are arguments against doing that--I won't rehash all of those. It is what it is.

So, to me, the main argument for the Arenas-Lewis trade from the Wizards' standpoint has always been eliminating the risk that they would have to deal him later (like this offseason) on significantly less favorable terms (ie, giving up picks, taking contracts that expire later, etc.).

[nate33]

The fact is we traded Gilbert Arenas for a guy who started breaking down weeks after he got here. It's funny, Gil was such an injury risk but he's the one that's barely missed any games while Lewis' season has long since been over.

Right now, as bad as Gil has played, his trade value is no worse than Lewis' because at least Gilbert is in his uniform for every game. We got $20 million dollars of dead weight on the bench that is planning on taking injections in his knee in the hopes he can bypass surgery and rehab in the offseason. Wow, that's really inspires optimism that all will be well come next training camp.

At best this trade has been a wash. At least Wizards fans & media can now focus there energies on more important matters nowadays, such as the suck-a-tude of Andray Baltche. Once we get him off the roster, just watch the championship trophies start rolling in.

I think you're letting your fondness for Gil cloud your otherwise sound judgement, Dat2U. You've got to be insane if you truly believe that Gil's trade value is no worse than Lewis'. Lewis' knee injury isn't serious. It's something that will be fixed with minor surgery. Chances are pretty good that he'll come back and be roughly as effective as he was in his first month here.

Gil's knee condition is degenerative, and he has been the worst regular-rotation player in basketball all season. Frankly, Orlando would be better off if he wasn't playing. He's THAT bad. And then when you factor contracts, it becomes a no-brainer. Lewis is owed $20M next year (probably cut in half because of a lockout) plus a $13M buyout. That's roughly $23M overall. Arenas is owed $62M minus about $9M due to a lockout for a total of $53M overall.

Even if Lewis didn't play another game, he's still far more desirable than the corpse of Gilbert Arenas.

[hands11]

Because he no longer has his explosion or lift, Arenas sucked in DC this year. He is continuing to suck in Orlando this year. The difference is that one team is junk and the other a contender, so he put up bigger stats on the junk team.

At least hes out there playing, even if he is sucking. Wheres' Rashard??? Arenas 9-14 (6-11 threes) tonight. Not bad for the sucky player.

That was the one piece that just didn't fit the puzzle.

If nothing else, Gil had amazing 3 range.

That's partly what got me thinking about this again.

Then I started to remember who we talking about. It's Gil. Mr Drama. He may have blown it once but he does understand the entertainment side of the NBA equation. So would he actually write part of his own script ? Would he not go 100% until it really mattered ? Specially if he wasn't sure how long he could go 100%. Would he love the idea of everyone giving up on him just to prove them wrong ? Again. Yeah, that sounds like something he may do. He is on a good team that has a great player in the post. This is his first legit shot at going deep in the playoffs. I think he would see that as a prime opportunity to make a come back.

I have zero proof this is what is going on. Pure speculation. But I wouldn't put it past him. And if it is true, I have no idea if he can pull it off. But I do know a few things. Gil would want redemption. He would want repair his legacy. He was a top NBA media star at one point. Just below the level of a LeBron, Wade, Howard type. The gun thing made national news. He was suspended. Etc. He would have to do something big to catch everyones attention in a positive way to mitigate that. And the big stage is the playoffs. So save your powder until it matters. And if he looks like he totally sucks in the process of saving his powder, so be it. That would just make the spread from where he was to were he ends up all the better which makes it a bigger story. Then the story line would be a rags to riches type story. Down and out to ... is he back ?

So he started for Orlando last game.

45 min. 9-14 6-11 from 3 and 25 pts which lead the team.

My guess is that was the first game he lead the team in scoring.

Orlando has 3 more game to play before the playoffs. If he was going to start ramping up for the playoffs, now would be a good time to start.

Sunday they play the Bulls at 1PM

I will check in to see what Gil does. If he has another good game, I will find that interesting.
A good showing against Chicago would be a good stage to get the media attention. So would two back to back good performances. If he cranks out another good game, you can count on the media picking up on this. Headline news. Is he back ?

But Orl may have two player suspended next game. Not sure that will help for next game.

Just speculating of course.

[Zonkerbl]

TL;DR

[GhostsOfGil]

wheres ace d at?

[montestewart]

wheres ace d at?

really. this thread blows without him

[Shanghai Kid]

My feeling is that Gilbert is going to be fine after this off-season. He won't be agent zero, but he'll be a productive player again. And I think he'll hold up physically longer in the years ahead than Rashard Lewis.

[TGW]

I feel that Gilbert is done. His game is completely based on his jumpshot now. He can't beat anyone off the dribble anymore, he can't finish at the rim, and his defense is terrible. I don't think an offseason with Jesus helping him rehab is going make a difference....it's over for him as a superstar. Right now, he's barely worthy of being in the rotation on a playoff team...maybe next year he might be good enough to become a semi-productive backup.

[willbcocks]

Arenas' role in Orlando is totally different from his role in DC. He struggled in DC too but was much better than he is now. And frankly, he was still one of the team's best players until he got dealt.

He went from being the man, to being pigeonholed into a role playing setup man off the bench. He's not Chris Duhon. Asking him to be Chris Duhon is just plain stupid. If they wanted Chris Duhon they should have never dealt for Gil b/c frankly Chris Duhon can do a better job at being himself than Gilbert Arenas can. I think if they ever let Gil be Gil, his numbers will spike upwards IMO. Gil is a lead guard. A starting lead guard. Not some backup. Not some version of the microwave and certainly not an improved version of Chris Duhon.

I agree that his role is different, although my interpretation is that he wasn't playing better than he is now, just putting up better stats. Because let's be honest, the Wizards were terrible with Gil as a lead guard, the Magic have been terrible with Gil as a lead guard when Jameer has been out, and it's hard to imagine any team not being terrible with Gil as a lead guard based on how he has played. He is not efficient on offense and a defensive sieve--the only thing he'll give a team if he plays more minutes and has more responsibility is more losses.

Although it's in this thread, my last post was not meant to say anything about the trade, which I have always viewed as necessary but nothing to get excited about. I just wanted to that Gil hasn't played high level, winning basketball in a long long time, which is a sad thing. Kinda reminds me of a more extreme example of Jerry Stackhouse.

[JonathanJoseph]

I think you're letting your fondness for Gil cloud your otherwise sound judgement, Dat2U. You've got to be insane if you truly believe that Gil's trade value is no worse than Lewis'. Lewis' knee injury isn't serious. It's something that will be fixed with minor surgery. Chances are pretty good that he'll come back and be roughly as effective as he was in his first month here.

Gil's knee condition is degenerative, and he has been the worst regular-rotation player in basketball all season. Frankly, Orlando would be better off if he wasn't playing. He's THAT bad. And then when you factor contracts, it becomes a no-brainer. Lewis is owed $20M next year (probably cut in half because of a lockout) plus a $13M buyout. That's roughly $23M overall. Arenas is owed $62M minus about $9M due to a lockout for a total of $53M overall.

Even if Lewis didn't play another game, he's still far more desirable than the corpse of Gilbert Arenas.

One of the reasons why this thread is fascinating is because very few seem to be able to come from a rational point of view.

I'd argue that you, Nate, are among the ones unable to use sound judgement. You said that Arenas has been the worst rotation player in the NBA "all season", when Arenas was a perfectly good 17/5 player THIS SEASON in Washington. You say that an injured Lewis is better than whatever Arenas is capable of putting up (when it's quite clear that Arenas could put up 22/7, 09-10 or 17/5, 10/11) so that's clearly not a rational analysis. As for the contract situation, we won't know how that shakes out until the CBA is addressed and we see how Arenas bounces back (or not).

There is nothing, I repeat, nothing wrong with Arenas' knee that hasn't been wrong for over two years now. 17/5 would still be a dramatic decrease from his averages last season, but still far ahead of what Rashard Lewis was putting up even when healthy and a well above average NBA player.

Yes Arenas has been shockingly horrible with Orlando. No one is disputing that. But Lewis was merely average for a few games before running into knee problems that rendered him useless before ending his season. The idea that Arenas' knee injury is somehow worse than Lewis' knee injury is quite simply not a fact, it's a wild guess. Lewis has played 12 NBA seasons and sometimes knees just wear out (see Chris Webber). Many players have had the same knee injury as Arenas and come back just fine and now Rashard Lewis has knee problems and is in the capable hands of the Wizards medical staff. Gulp.

Anyone declaring a "winner" to this trade at this point is 100% full of it. I'd still guess that the Wizards lost this trade by a lot, but we won't know that any time soon. Assuming that Arenas will continue to stink up the joint is no better an assumption than guessing that Rashard Lewis will have knee problems and remain the most expensive benchwarmer in the NBA for the next 2 seasons. Almost every post in this thread assumes one outcome (Arenas will continue to stink) while refusing to acknowledge the other (Lewis refuses to have knee surgery and will never be healthy again when he was merely average to begin with). Until everyone is able to bring a sober, objective analysis and some actual history, this thread will continue to suck.

[TGW]

"when Arenas was a perfectly good 17/5 player THIS SEASON in Washington."

LOL at you accusing of someone else being irrational, while writing this nonsense in the same post.

"Perfectly good" eh? Is that really what your arguing? So shooting terribly from the field, having an assist to turnover ratio below 2:1, and playing horrific defense is "perfectly good"?

Sheesh...you guys are really butthurt about this Arenas stuff.

[Hoopalotta]

Joseph always gets excited about individual numbers sans efficiency and in isolation from how that works within a team concept towards the ostensible goal of actually winning real live basketball games. You know, if we could just channel the energy from Ricky Davis' missed 19 footers, we could power the generators at that Bengali orphanage for a whole year. The NBA Cares.

So never mind that we're bottom dwellers with the 26th most inefficient offense in the league and a D about the same, guys are puttin' up numbers! GM's are blowing our phones up trying to get a piece of these hot tickets! Drinks for the band!

So, to me, the main argument for the Arenas-Lewis trade from the Wizards' standpoint has always been eliminating the risk that they would have to deal him later (like this offseason) on significantly less favorable terms (ie, giving up picks, taking contracts that expire later, etc.).

This is exactly what I see, combined with the idea that we have a cheaper base for a potential buyout. No disrespect to Lewis or Gil as people, but a discussion of who's more helpful to a team between them is like a discussion between the merits of fleas versus lice given the contractual context.

[verbal8]

No disrespect to Lewis or Gil as people, but a discussion of who's more helpful to a team between them is like a discussion between the merits of fleas versus lice given the contractual context.

Fleas FTW

[Zonkerbl]

Dude, you're ****ing insane. Lice totally rawk.

[hands11]

JJ

What you wrote was making sense until the end.

I have been speculating a different idea for one.

Secondly, even if what I have been speculating does come true and Gil does show up for the playoffs, it was still the right move to move him. Why ? Because Gil is a drama queen. Dude is not the kind of personality I would want on this young team. Gil is the type that will take your team hostage as he does whatever makes sense in his head. Then add that his contract cost more. Etc. Etc.

I am glad he isn't here. The Wizards have already won on those grounds.
As for him doing well on Orlando. I hope he does. I hope he shines in the playoffs. But if he does, that won't change anything regarding how good a move this was the for the Wizards. Gil didn't want to be here. He needed a fresh start. Wall needed room to grow.

At worse, the Wiz won the trade. At best, both teams did well. There isn't even an option that the Wizards lost in this trade because they are rebuilding and they want to mitigate Gils contract. They did that and moved a player that wanted moved in the process.