Bynum or Dwight?

[NickTheQuick]

Bynum is a very good center and he is playing better than ever, but it is very hasty to say he is better than Howard. Howard has been the most consistent center in the game the last 5+ years and he is also among the most durable players in the game. That in itself is amazing for how active he is.

Dwight has improved upon his game this season. He has developed better post moves and is an overall more consistent player offensively. He is a 2 way player. He impacts the game on both sides of the floor at a top notch level. The offense runs through him, as does the defense. Its amazing how much energy he has when putting so much effort on both sides.

Bynum is very skilled, has a new found defensive mentality and is improving offensively. But we have seen Bynum have good stretches. He is going to have to prove himself to be consistent year in and year out before I even consider him at Dwights level. And we have no idea how he would be is the ball ran through him. I doubt he can be as dominate on the boards and defensively. I love what the Lakers have in Bynum, but Dwight right now is on another level

[NextToJack]

Those of you supporting Dwight Howard are probably discounting his fit into the triangle system. Dwight would be absolutely terrible fit for our slashing, dishing and iso formations.

Bynum has 100x more offensive touch at the basket. Although Bynum doesn't play above the rim as howard does. Offensively Howard is lacking in many ways. Doesn't have very many post move which can be learned. But he lacks what cannot be coached. Soft offensive touch. No shooter roll to any of his shots. Most of the time his shots resemble a football being thrown at the rim.

Seriously watch him play. Its not pretty or shall we say skillful.

Yes Bynum is an injury liability and has taken serious time to deliver results. Not to mention his body has not been reliable.

If your asking me to do the trade I would say do it. Because Howards frame and body will last far beyond Bynums. Unfortunately he doesn't have the skill to fit into our offense and it will be sorely obvious should be ever put on a purple and gold jersey.

A better question would be........Chris Paul or Dwight Howard. Pick one.

[Jetset]

Those of you supporting Dwight Howard are probably discounting his fit into the triangle system. Dwight would be absolutely terrible fit for our slashing, dishing and iso formations.

Bynum has 100x more offensive touch at the basket. Although Bynum doesn't play above the rim as howard does. Offensively Howard is lacking in many ways. Doesn't have very many post move which can be learned. But he lacks what cannot be coached. Soft offensive touch. No shooter roll to any of his shots. Most of the time his shots resemble a football being thrown at the rim.

Seriously watch him play. Its not pretty or shall we say skillful.

Yes Bynum is an injury liability and has taken serious time to deliver results. Not to mention his body has not been reliable.

If your asking me to do the trade I would say do it. Because Howards frame and body will last far beyond Bynums. Unfortunately he doesn't have the skill to fit into our offense and it will be sorely obvious should be ever put on a purple and gold jersey.

A better question would be........Chris Paul or Dwight Howard. Pick one.

I believe the Lakers would find a way to incorporate Howard into the offense just fine. You're right Bynum is a better offensive player than Howard and D12's is painful to watch at times. The best description I can give Howard is that of "glitchy". Bynum's offense is much more fluid and just overall possesses better touch. Howard's game is block-like and full of gaping holes. Seemingly the only way he can score is if he uses his sheer strength and power moves which usually results in him either fouling in the act of playing offense or overstepping and traveling. But I'll have to disagree that he cannot stand to learn more. Over the years Howard has done wonders to improve his offensive repertoire with a lot of it being seen this season. I don't think he's quite peaked on the offensive side of the ball but there's little room for growth from at this point.

As to your question of Paul or Howard, some would argue that since we run the Triangle there's no need for a PG therefore they'd take Howard. I'd take Paul and I may be the only one this board to do so. Most here would take Deron over Paul and I can't imagine the responses had you have said Deron or Howard, but for me I'll take Paul over the both of them. It's becoming quite clear Kobe no longer needs to have the responibility of the primary ball handler and playmaker on this team, his age and his fingers will not permit it. He needs someone who can set him up as well as everyone else on the team, and I believe Paul would be a great fit should we continue to run the Triangle or if we switch systems under a new head coach. I'll admit Paul's knee is a slight concern and it seems as if he hasn't made a full recovery but I'm reluctant to believe that Paul never will or at least come close to one, like most have done already. Paul at full strength has an impact that is greater than Deron has ever had and even if he'll only ever be 90% again, he's the type of floor general that this team needs. We lack youth and speed from mostly all of our positions especially PG and I think Paul fits the bill. Deron is a physical specimen indeed, his strength at the PG position is unmatched by anyone currently in the game at the same position but this team needs needs a bolt of quickness more so than a brute of a PG. And this may be just me but I like Paul's feel of the game much more over Deron's, and thats not a knock on Deron. Both are obviously significant upgrades over our current PG, but if you were to ask me which one is needed more then I'd say Chris Paul.

[Anklebreaker702]

Howard is the only Center I'd like to see in a Lakers uniform instead of Bynum. With that said its really not worth dissecting. Offensively your comparing a 1st option to what a 4th? Also I saw someone say D12 has a better post game but that is just not true IMO. The post I saw that has the most validity to it was the one that said D12 has the durability factor over Drew right now. Even though Drew has been a beast on the boards as of late, this is the 1st time in his career we've seen him go off the chain defensively & rebounding wise.

Now with all that said once he starts getting the ball more, if he can keep up his defensive efforts, it'll pretty much be 6 in 1 hand, half a dozen in the other.

[NextToJack]

As to your question of Paul or Howard, some would argue that since we run the Triangle there's no need for a PG therefore they'd take Howard. I'd take Paul and I may be the only one this board to do so. Most here would take Deron over Paul and I can't imagine the responses had you have said Deron or Howard, but for me I'll take Paul over the both of them. It's becoming quite clear Kobe no longer needs to have the responibility of the primary ball handler and playmaker on this team, his age and his fingers will not permit it. He needs someone who can set him up as well as everyone else on the team, and I believe Paul would be a great fit should we continue to run the Triangle or if we switch systems under a new head coach. I'll admit Paul's knee is a slight concern and it seems as if he hasn't made a full recovery but I'm reluctant to believe that Paul never will or at least come close to one, like most have done already. Paul at full strength has an impact that is greater than Deron has ever had and even if he'll only ever be 90% again, he's the type of floor general that this team needs. We lack youth and speed from mostly all of our positions especially PG and I think Paul fits the bill. Deron is a physical specimen indeed, his strength at the PG position is unmatched by anyone currently in the game at the same position but this team needs needs a bolt of quickness more so than a brute of a PG. And this may be just me but I like Paul's feel of the game much more over Deron's, and thats not a knock on Deron. Both are obviously significant upgrades over our current PG, but if you were to ask me which one is needed more then I'd say Chris Paul.

I am absolutely with you on this. No need for time to evaluate this decision. I take Chris Paul or Deron over D12 at an instant. Through my personal survey of 20-30 friends of varying Laker fandom and some strangers at bars. Most prefer Dwight. But a fair chunk believe in Paul. And to be fair Deron is a comparable talent. Anytime i refer to paul his name can be interchangeable with Chris Pauls.

Here is something I have thought long and hard about. After countless conversations of people wanting Dwight. Referencing exactly what is mostly known about the triangle offense(TO). It does not require a traditional pass first pg who would avg 4+ assists let alone the 10+ chris paul averages for his career. Yes the obvious is true.

But in all reality the Lakers DO NOT RUN THE TRIANGLE OFFENSE 100% of the time. The actual % is debatable depending on a game by game basis. Especially at the end of close games. The lakers primary offense is the TO. I will point out THREE simple scenarios where Chris Pauls assisting talents would be extremely beneficial.

1. Fast Break/Transition plays.
Easy basket are had at the end of fast breaks. More transition baskets are a statistic all teams strive for. Just as the Lakers do. I don't have the actual numbers but wouldn't be surprised to see the Lakers no where near the top of the league. Back to my point, Chris Paul leading the break will lead to an improvement in this department.

Side note: Ariza is another player who raised our transition stats from the finishers perspective. Im assuming. He was an exceptional player to fill the wing on the break and could finish. We dont have many players who can finish at the rack while on the run.

2. Pick and Roll.
Bread and butter plays at the end of quarters or after a timeout. All teams in the NBA break from their primary offense to run pick/break and roll to generate crunch time points. Especially when closing games out. Think Steve Nash and Amare. Shaq and Kobe. Wade and Lebron. Every team runs this play with or without stars. Its the most basic play and very successful. Chris Paul with his elite pg talents could run many variations of the P&R with anybody. Chris Paul to Kobe. Chris Paul to Pau. Awesome. Not only must you be a good P&R passer, you have to be able to hit a jump shot off the P&R to keep teams honest and CP3 is an excellent shooter with improving 3pt range.

side note:Teams or players who defend well against he pick and roll probably win more games than teams who don't.

Imagine

3. In the basic TO. 2 parts to this scenario. 1. PG creator 2. Finisher/Slasher/3pt Shooter

3.1.There is no sample of an elite pg playing within the TO. But its possible. Denying the TO Paul the opportunity because of its long history of mediocre to below avg pgs being successful. Means the success should only be better if a better player were to play the position. Common sense dictates improvement. Enter Chris Paul or Deron. Or any above avg pg. Simple.

3.2. When he isn't creating he can slash and finish with the best of them. 48% 49% 50% fg over the last three seasons makes it clear he can score with efficiency. Player with good catching and handling hands in traffic who can finish. But his height can be a disadvantage of times. But so what, he is chris paul.

3.3 Decent 3 point shooter. Paul has improved every season since his rookie year % wise. Except the in 08 where his 3pt% was .364 and the season prior was .369. This season he is shooting .409.

Side note: The TO does not require excellent 3 point shooters to be effective. Having 3pt shooters is like icing or sprinkles on the cake. I blame steve Kerr and Craig Hodges. They were known to be excellent shooters for Phil Jackson while in Chicago. But Jordan and Pippen were not great 3fg% shooters. On a whole the Championship Bulls early years did not employ any 3 points specialist and the team overall shot very little or poorly from behind the arc. Only the 95 and 96 bulls were instance with their long range stroke. Jordan, Pippen and Kerr showed extreme spikes in those years.

side note 2: Another reason jordans fg% is far greater than kobes is because of his limited 3 point shooting. Kobe relies on his 3 pointers far more than Jordan ever did.

My point is he can do it all on offense.

In closing, Chris Paul offensive talents would greatly benefit the lakers and the triangle offense in more ways than being an elite pg. He is an elite offensive player period.

I could elaborate more but this should be enough for now. This was originally written as a response in the Bynum vs Howard thread. But am turning into its own topic.

Here is the original link.

[moocow007]

sorry, don't know if this was asked before....but i would like people's opinions.....my friend and i are always arguing over who is the better player...i say bynum...he says dwight.....i believe bynum to be a better rebounder, better shooter/scorer (when he gets the ball).....and i believe he has the same defensive capabilities....and that he has more post moves than dwight......i'm pretty confident bynum is a better pure post big man........

You got to be kidding.

[dockingsched]

You got to be kidding.

what a random post on here, lol.

[richboy]

Howard is the only Center I'd like to see in a Lakers uniform instead of Bynum. With that said its really not worth dissecting. Offensively your comparing a 1st option to what a 4th? Also I saw someone say D12 has a better post game but that is just not true IMO. The post I saw that has the most validity to it was the one that said D12 has the durability factor over Drew right now. Even though Drew has been a beast on the boards as of late, this is the 1st time in his career we've seen him go off the chain defensively & rebounding wise.

Now with all that said once he starts getting the ball more, if he can keep up his defensive efforts, it'll pretty much be 6 in 1 hand, half a dozen in the other.

D12 doesn't have the better post game? Dwight has a great face up game now. He has a devastating spin move. He has hooks with both hands. He has 15 foot bank shots. He is now suddenly been making 18 foot straight jumpers. This idea that Dwight isn't good offensively is ridiculous. Its like people are looking for some level of Artistry instead of results. Its like the fools that say Al Jefferson is better offensively than Dwight Howard. The same Al Jefferson that takes 17 shots to score 19 points.

You can make a case that Dwight is one of the best offensive centers ever. Yeah people may laugh at that idea. When you look at the numbers Dwight offensive production per shot is just ridiculous. He is fouled more often per shot than Shaq ever dreamed. Dwight doesn't get a steady diet of post play like Shaq. Not because of his game but because the Magic also utilize a lot of PNR. If Dwight played with a PG that actually could find him on PNR he probably be nearly as good as Amare in PNR. Instead he gets very few baskets in PNR situations. If the Magic just said where going to go into Dwight all game and let him take 19-20 shots he would average well over 30 a game. Probably force 15 or more free throws a game.

Kareem the other day said he wished he had the opportunity to work with Dwight. I think he had to realize something that I've been thinking for awhile. That is Dwight is the most physically gifted center in this league since Wilt Chamberlain. David Robinson was similar but not nearly as physical as Dwight. Matter of fact the admiral spent most of his time just launching jumpers. Only had a few years that he even averaged 10 free throws per game despite many more shot attempts. Dwight's combination of power and speed is something that we haven't seen since a very young Hakeem and the days of Wilt.

Nothing against Bynum. I love his game and his size. He is bigger than Dwight and even longer. Bynum uses his size and length to his advantage in his post game. He has almost no face up game. Dwight is making more jumpers than him. Bynum really relies on jump hooks or drop steps for most of his offense. I think he could be a number 1 option in this league. Dwight Howard is by far a more difficult cover than Andrew Bynum.

[LascelleL]

Those of you supporting Dwight Howard are probably discounting his fit into the triangle system. Dwight would be absolutely terrible fit for our slashing, dishing and iso formations.

Bynum has 100x more offensive touch at the basket. Although Bynum doesn't play above the rim as howard does. Offensively Howard is lacking in many ways. Doesn't have very many post move which can be learned. But he lacks what cannot be coached. Soft offensive touch. No shooter roll to any of his shots. Most of the time his shots resemble a football being thrown at the rim.

Seriously watch him play. Its not pretty or shall we say skillful.

Yes Bynum is an injury liability and has taken serious time to deliver results. Not to mention his body has not been reliable.

If your asking me to do the trade I would say do it. Because Howards frame and body will last far beyond Bynums. Unfortunately he doesn't have the skill to fit into our offense and it will be sorely obvious should be ever put on a purple and gold jersey.

A better question would be........Chris Paul or Dwight Howard. Pick one.

I believe the Lakers would find a way to incorporate Howard into the offense just fine. You're right Bynum is a better offensive player than Howard and D12's is painful to watch at times. The best description I can give Howard is that of "glitchy". Bynum's offense is much more fluid and just overall possesses better touch. Howard's game is block-like and full of gaping holes. Seemingly the only way he can score is if he uses his sheer strength and power moves which usually results in him either fouling in the act of playing offense or overstepping and traveling. But I'll have to disagree that he cannot stand to learn more. Over the years Howard has done wonders to improve his offensive repertoire with a lot of it being seen this season. I don't think he's quite peaked on the offensive side of the ball but there's little room for growth from at this point.

As to your question of Paul or Howard, some would argue that since we run the Triangle there's no need for a PG therefore they'd take Howard. I'd take Paul and I may be the only one this board to do so. Most here would take Deron over Paul and I can't imagine the responses had you have said Deron or Howard, but for me I'll take Paul over the both of them. It's becoming quite clear Kobe no longer needs to have the responibility of the primary ball handler and playmaker on this team, his age and his fingers will not permit it. He needs someone who can set him up as well as everyone else on the team, and I believe Paul would be a great fit should we continue to run the Triangle or if we switch systems under a new head coach. I'll admit Paul's knee is a slight concern and it seems as if he hasn't made a full recovery but I'm reluctant to believe that Paul never will or at least come close to one, like most have done already. Paul at full strength has an impact that is greater than Deron has ever had and even if he'll only ever be 90% again, he's the type of floor general that this team needs. We lack youth and speed from mostly all of our positions especially PG and I think Paul fits the bill. Deron is a physical specimen indeed, his strength at the PG position is unmatched by anyone currently in the game at the same position but this team needs needs a bolt of quickness more so than a brute of a PG. And this may be just me but I like Paul's feel of the game much more over Deron's, and thats not a knock on Deron. Both are obviously significant upgrades over our current PG, but if you were to ask me which one is needed more then I'd say Chris Paul.

You give Dwight the same amount of time Bynum has had with Kareem and you tell me if his offensive game is still lacking

[Anklebreaker702]

Howard is the only Center I'd like to see in a Lakers uniform instead of Bynum. With that said its really not worth dissecting. Offensively your comparing a 1st option to what a 4th? Also I saw someone say D12 has a better post game but that is just not true IMO. The post I saw that has the most validity to it was the one that said D12 has the durability factor over Drew right now. Even though Drew has been a beast on the boards as of late, this is the 1st time in his career we've seen him go off the chain defensively & rebounding wise.

Now with all that said once he starts getting the ball more, if he can keep up his defensive efforts, it'll pretty much be 6 in 1 hand, half a dozen in the other.

D12 doesn't have the better post game? Dwight has a great face up game now. He has a devastating spin move. He has hooks with both hands. He has 15 foot bank shots. He is now suddenly been making 18 foot straight jumpers. This idea that Dwight isn't good offensively is ridiculous. Its like people are looking for some level of Artistry instead of results. Its like the fools that say Al Jefferson is better offensively than Dwight Howard. The same Al Jefferson that takes 17 shots to score 19 points.

You can make a case that Dwight is one of the best offensive centers ever. Yeah people may laugh at that idea. When you look at the numbers Dwight offensive production per shot is just ridiculous. He is fouled more often per shot than Shaq ever dreamed. Dwight doesn't get a steady diet of post play like Shaq. Not because of his game but because the Magic also utilize a lot of PNR. If Dwight played with a PG that actually could find him on PNR he probably be nearly as good as Amare in PNR. Instead he gets very few baskets in PNR situations. If the Magic just said where going to go into Dwight all game and let him take 19-20 shots he would average well over 30 a game. Probably force 15 or more free throws a game.

Kareem the other day said he wished he had the opportunity to work with Dwight. I think he had to realize something that I've been thinking for awhile. That is Dwight is the most physically gifted center in this league since Wilt Chamberlain. David Robinson was similar but not nearly as physical as Dwight. Matter of fact the admiral spent most of his time just launching jumpers. Only had a few years that he even averaged 10 free throws per game despite many more shot attempts. Dwight's combination of power and speed is something that we haven't seen since a very young Hakeem and the days of Wilt.

Nothing against Bynum. I love his game and his size. He is bigger than Dwight and even longer. Bynum uses his size and length to his advantage in his post game. He has almost no face up game. Dwight is making more jumpers than him. Bynum really relies on jump hooks or drop steps for most of his offense. I think he could be a number 1 option in this league. Dwight Howard is by far a more difficult cover than Andrew Bynum.

You make some good points bit I don't agree with them all. If Bynum got the ball as much as Howard you would see Drew is nearly unstoppable once he gets his rhythm. I also don't agree Howard is the most physically gifted Center since Wilt. I'd go with Kareem, Hakeem, & Shaq well before him.

It's all just opinion but what gets lost in the shuffle is anything you practice at you get better. Dwight is the focal point of his offense so of course its coming around. Remember when Bynum was mostly offense? Everybody wanted him to play defense & rebound.

Now that he's doing that he can't get the ball. One main reason most if not all of our guards have a shoot first, pass second mentality. If Bynum was fed in the post more better comparisons could be made.

[richboy]

Shaq was physically gifted but he ate his way out of that crown. He went from a player that had great athleticism and speed to someone who just wanted to be bigger and stronger than everyone. In terms his defense and rebounding suffered. Yes Young Shaq was more physically gifted. That Shaq didn't last long though.

Kareem had great skill but I can't put him in the Dwight class as a athlete.

Young Hakeem was very comparable. I've said in the past Dwight reminds me of Hakeem when he entered the league. When its all said it done though I think Dwight is stronger. I think Dwight is a more explosive leaper and a little faster.

[dockingsched]

You give Dwight the same amount of time Bynum has had with Kareem and you tell me if his offensive game is still lacking

not to discredit Kareem, but people act like he had some magical touch and bynum's own effort had nothing to do with it. i mean, where did kareem's help get michael olowokandi?

[LApwnd]

You give Dwight the same amount of time Bynum has had with Kareem and you tell me if his offensive game is still lacking

not to discredit Kareem, but people act like he had some magical touch and bynum's own effort had nothing to do with it. i mean, where did kareem's help get michael olowokandi?

Olowokandi did have a big year that one year before his contract negotiation not Kareem fault he went to Minn and turn into a turd.

[Anklebreaker702]

Shaq was physically gifted but he ate his way out of that crown. He went from a player that had great athleticism and speed to someone who just wanted to be bigger and stronger than everyone. In terms his defense and rebounding suffered. Yes Young Shaq was more physically gifted. That Shaq didn't last long though.

Kareem had great skill but I can't put him in the Dwight class as a athlete.

Young Hakeem was very comparable. I've said in the past Dwight reminds me of Hakeem when he entered the league. When its all said it done though I think Dwight is stronger. I think Dwight is a more explosive leaper and a little faster.

Lol he's probably not even as strong as Bynum. Hakeem had very good to great strength but you didn't see it as much because his finesse game was so strong.

[richboy]

Shaq was physically gifted but he ate his way out of that crown. He went from a player that had great athleticism and speed to someone who just wanted to be bigger and stronger than everyone. In terms his defense and rebounding suffered. Yes Young Shaq was more physically gifted. That Shaq didn't last long though.

Kareem had great skill but I can't put him in the Dwight class as a athlete.

Young Hakeem was very comparable. I've said in the past Dwight reminds me of Hakeem when he entered the league. When its all said it done though I think Dwight is stronger. I think Dwight is a more explosive leaper and a little faster.

Lol he's probably not even as strong as Bynum. Hakeem had very good to great strength but you didn't see it as much because his finesse game was so strong.

His finese game was strong when he reached his 30s. Bill Walton use to talk about how Hakeem re-invented himself as his career went on. He went from a power dunker to a guy doing dream shakes.

Sorry. I saw Dwight Howard back Bynum down and dunk it right on him on a spin move. I've seen nothing to suggest Bynum is as strong as Dwight. He is bigger and longer.