JJ Hickson @ 6'9, 242 lbs vs Derrick Williams @ 6'8, 240 lbs

Steely Reserve · Post #1 » by **Steely Reserve** » Sat Apr 9, 2011 12:19 am

Hickson: 22 years old

Williams:.19 years old

Hickson freshman stats @ NC State: 14.8/8.5/1.0/1.5/.7. 59% shooting

Williams freshman stats @ Arizona: 15.7/7.1/.7/.6/.6 57% shooting

What does this tell you besides they put up similar statlines?

They're both power forwards, where is Hickson offers better rebounding and shot blocking ability, and Williams put the ball in the rim a bit more while sacrificing efficiency.

So why the hell do you people think Willams is a small forward?

tidho · Post #2 » by **tidho** » Sat Apr 9, 2011 1:54 am

There is literally nothing in your post that would suggest he can't.
From stat line alone Perry Jones looks incredibly similar too, though I believe you consider him a SF.

To make your case you have to specifically say why he can't do it.

Niko23 · Post #3 » by **Niko23** » Sat Apr 9, 2011 2:08 am

Dude we get it. Your the president of the Perry Jones fan club and you will do anything to convert people in your philosophy.

Give it a rest.

Steely Reserve · Post #4 » by **Steely Reserve** » Sat Apr 9, 2011 2:31 am

Where is my post did I mention Perry Jones?

Anyway, this is about the fact Williams plays a power forward game and not a small forward one. He doesn't handle the rock or pass the ball adequately enough to validate thegrand assumption he can play a 3 at the NBA level. He's averaged more than two turnover to every assist in his college career.

You think that's improving in the NBA?

Roger Murdock · Post #5 » by **Roger Murdock** » Sat Apr 9, 2011 3:06 am

I was reading a thread in the player comparison forum the other day. I was amazed at how similar Kobe Bryants stats are to Derrick Rose. I don't know why I was surprised though, their games are eerily similar and they are both terrific point guards.

mcfly1204 · Post #6 » by **mcfly1204** » Sat Apr 9, 2011 10:41 am

Why not post the current stats for WIlliams? I am guessing because he was more efficient, and also because he shot 56.8% from behind the arc. What did Hickson shoot form behind the arc in college?

This Kevin Durant character also averaged more than two turnovers for every assist in college, I suppose someone should inform Presti that his boy is being played out of position.

Niko23 · Post #7 » by **Niko23** » Sat Apr 9, 2011 1:45 pm

Steely Reserve wrote:Where is my post did I mention Perry Jones?

Anyway, this is about the fact Williams plays a power forward game and not a small forward one. He doesn't handle the rock or pass the ball adequately enough to validate thegrand assumption he can play a 3 at the NBA level. He's averaged more than two turnover to every assist in his college career.

You think that's improving in the NBA?

Agenda is pretty clear. You clearly favor taking Jones and in attempt to discredit Williams you question his ability to the play the 3 and suggest that we are set at the 4 with JJ Hickson. Now I will agree with you that Williams is not going to the play the 3 consistently in the NBA. As I have mentioned, he will get some burn there in some various match ups throughout the season, but he is a 4. I would easily draft him and try to trade JJ aka "mental moron, pees himself in big situations, LeBron wanna be" Hickson.

tidho · Post #8 » by **tidho** » Sat Apr 9, 2011 2:59 pm

Steely Reserve wrote:Anyway, this is about the fact Williams plays a power forward game and not a small forward one. He doesn't handle the rock or pass the ball adequately enough to validate thegrand assumption he can play a 3 at the NBA level. He's averaged more than two turnover to every assist in his college career.

You think that's improving in the NBA?

Ok, there's a legitimate point supporting your premise!

You're right, Williams has zero point-forward capabilities, and probalby never will. He's a finisher not a play maker pure and simple. That doesn't mean he can't play SF it just means that you need playmakers at other positions. He fits nicely with Baron Davis, not so much with Knight or Walker types.
What he can do is defend the position on the perimeter and inside, and play inside out on offense with a post up game most SF's will be clueless to defend and pretty nice range on his jumper.

Steely Reserve · Post #9 » by **Steely Reserve** » Sat Apr 9, 2011 8:47 pm

tidho wrote:
Steely Reserve wrote:Anyway, this is about the fact Williams plays a power forward game and not a small forward one. He doesn't handle the rock or pass the ball adequately enough to validate thegrand assumption he can play a 3 at the NBA level. He's averaged more than two turnover to every assist in his college career.

You think that's improving in the NBA?

Ok, there's a legitimate point supporting your premise!

You're right, Williams has zero point-forward capabilities, and probalby never will. He's a finisher not a play maker pure and simple. That doesn't mean he can't play SF it just means that you need playmakers at other positions. He fits nicely with Baron Davis, not so much with Knight or Walker types.
What he can do is defend the position on the perimeter and inside, and play inside out on offense with a post up game most SF's will be clueless to defend and pretty nice range on his jumper.

That's a power forward's game.

I think you all are confused as to how a small forward plays in the NBA. They don't play inside-out or primarily post up. They are guys who can come off slips screens, create off pick and roll, and shoot the three consistently.

That's what a normal star small forward does and that would be the expectation for Williams if he were drafted top 3.

Steely Reserve · Post #10 » by **Steely Reserve** » Sat Apr 9, 2011 8:50 pm

Niko23 wrote:
Steely Reserve wrote:Where is my post did I mention Perry Jones?

Anyway, this is about the fact Williams plays a power forward game and not a small forward one. He doesn't handle the rock or pass the ball adequately enough to validate thegrand assumption he can play a 3 at the NBA level. He's averaged more than two turnover to every assist in his college career.

You think that's improving in the NBA?

Agenda is pretty clear. You clearly favor taking Jones and in attempt to discredit Williams you question his ability to the play the 3 and suggest that we are set at the 4 with JJ Hickson. Now I will agree with you that Williams is not going to the play the 3 consistently in the NBA. As I have mentioned, he will get some burn there in some various match ups throughout the season, but he is a 4. I would easily draft him and try to trade JJ aka "mental moron, pees himself in big situations, LeBron wanna be" Hickson.

Thanks for admitting you'd trade your 22 year old budding power forward for the chance to draft a guy who is smaller and a worse rebounder.

Props. Doesn't mean you're right but at least you're not trying to be on both sides of the fence on this issue.

If you draft Williams, you might as well trade Hickson. No other way to look at it.

Post #11 » by **TheOUTLAW** » Sat Apr 9, 2011 10:47 pm

You take the better talent in the NBA draft period. I'm not saying who that is, but if Williams is the more talented player then that's who you take. Otherwise you put yourself in a position of being a complete idiot like the Blazers when they (supposedly) passed on Jordan because they already had a talented player playing that position.

BossHoggin · Post #12 » by **BossHoggin** » Sun Apr 10, 2011 6:49 am

TheOUTLAW wrote:You take the better talent in the NBA draft period. I'm not saying who that is, but if Williams is the more talented player then that's who you take. Otherwise you put yourself in a position of being a complete idiot like the Blazers when they (supposedly) passed on Jordan because they already had a talented player playing that position.

+1
You take him and let the play decide who wins. If they fit together, good, if not, trade one.

jpsteven · Post #13 » by **jpsteven** » Mon Apr 11, 2011 2:20 am

I see Eli's Eyes has moved from Realcavsfans to Realgm lol. You do know Perry Jones is also projected to be a power forward in the NBA. The Cavs need to draft BPA and that is Kyrie and DWill at this point. Don't forcefeed Perry Jones down our throats like you did on the other site you got banned from.

tidho · Post #14 » by **tidho** » Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:49 pm

Steely Reserve wrote:I think you all are confused as to how a small forward plays in the NBA. They don't play inside-out or primarily post up. They are guys who can come off slips screens, create off pick and roll, and shoot the three consistently.

That's what a normal star small forward does and that would be the expectation for Williams if he were drafted top 3.

I think you've failed to realize that most of the structure defining the exact roles of each position has vanished in the last two decades.
Deng, Prince, Marion, Lewis, Battier, Kirilenko - all starting SFs....Williams will do just fine.

fredericklove · Post #15 » by **fredericklove** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 7:52 am

haha this guy even trolls in cavs draft board, man y'all don't know how much he trolled the raptors draft board.

Post #16 » by **Icness** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 8:40 pm

Eddie Jones was a borderline AS SG when the Lakers went out and got Kobe. They coexisted with reasonable success for two seasons, then they parlayed Jones into Glen Rice, BJ Armstrong, and JR Reid...i.e. a borderline AS at another position and two veteran backups that still had game to contribute.

The Pacers had Chuck Person and Reggie Miller at the same time and they were essentially the same player, still had some pretty solid success.

Sometimes getting direct competition like that really fuels the fire and produces greatness. I wouldn't mind seeing if that works with Hickson...or Williams.

jpsteven · Post #17 » by **jpsteven** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 8:42 pm

fredericklove wrote:haha this guy even trolls in cavs draft board, man y'all don't know how much he trolled the raptors draft board.

Yeah I seriously think the guy is related to Perry Jones or just has a unhealthy obsession with him. I am almost positive by his posts that has been trolling on other Cavs boards nonstop about how great Perry is and how terrible Barnes, Irving, and Williams are. He's got issues lol.

gflem · Post #18 » by **gflem** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 9:07 pm

Well, the problem is solved for this season anyway. I have no problems with drafting Williams if Irving is gone. If the Cavs feel he is the bpa then they should draft him. I believe he will be able to play SF in the NBA anyway so to me it is a moot point. His supposed weakness as a ball handler is nothing that cant be addressed just as Lecon wasnt a very good ball handler at the NBA level when he arrived here.

fredericklove · Post #19 » by **fredericklove** » Wed Apr 13, 2011 7:25 pm

jpsteven wrote:
fredericklove wrote:haha this guy even trolls in cavs draft board, man y'all don't know how much he trolled the raptors draft board.

Yeah I seriously think the guy is related to Perry Jones or just has a unhealthy obsession with him. I am almost positive by his posts that has been trolling on other Cavs boards nonstop about how great Perry is and how terrible Barnes, Irving, and Williams are. He's got issues lol.

Watch how Quincy Miller destroys PJ3's draft stock next season, it'll be fun to watch this dude crying all over it.

Kaner · Post #20 » by **Kaner** » Mon May 9, 2011 10:29 pm

Dude, did you watch either of them in college or did you just compare similar numbers? Oh and i noticed you conveniently left out 3pt% :lol:

I'd be more interested in end to end speed, IMO if he's comparatively as quick as some of the elite 3's in the league, then his inside/out game,defensive body presence,high vertical and quick foot/lateral speed are a match made in heaven for a 3 if you ask me