The Good Ole Religion Thread

College Boy · Post #1 » by **College Boy** » Sat Apr 9, 2011 10:55 am

This thread is for people who have genuine questions or inquiries about religions not their own.

So I guess I'll start it off. I am Christian (Southern Baptist to be exact). If you have any real questions about that, I would be more than happy to give you an answer to the best of my abilities. Though I must warn you, I do not know everything (or act like I do). But I will certainly give it my best shot.

For those of other faiths (yes Atheism is a faith), I would certainly love to learn about your beliefs and how you came to understand them. I will have questions so please don't get defensive or take offense. I promise my intent will not be to corner or disprove anyone's beliefs. I just want to get a clear understanding of what and why and how. I was a religion major, so these things peak my interest.

Now let me state: THIS IS NOT A YOUR RELIGION VS MY RELIGION THREAD. NOR IS THIS A RELIGION BASHING THREAD. IF YOU'RE NOT GOING TO BE A CONSTRUCTIVE PARTICIPANT, STAY OUT!!!!!

Discuss....

YoungMoney23 · Post #2 » by **YoungMoney23** » Sat Apr 9, 2011 3:21 pm

I claim my religious preference to be Jedi, anyone else follow?

Post #3 » by **jwise44** » Sat Apr 9, 2011 3:22 pm

is chuckhayesism an official religion yet?...because i follow that

Post #4 » by **TMU** » Sat Apr 9, 2011 3:25 pm

YoungMoney23 wrote:I claim my religious preference to be Jedi, anyone else follow?

May the Force be with you.

Post #5 » by **Optimism Prime** » Sat Apr 9, 2011 3:38 pm

College Boy wrote:Now let me state: THIS IS NOT A YOUR RELIGION VS MY RELIGION THREAD. NOR IS THIS A RELIGION BASHING THREAD. IF YOU'RE NOT GOING TO BE A CONSTRUCTIVE PARTICIPANT, STAY OUT!!!!!

Needs to be reemphasized. Religious bigotry will NOT be tolerated on my watch, guys. Keep it clean; if you can't have a rational discussion, stay out.

Post #6 » by **Optimism Prime** » Sat Apr 9, 2011 3:50 pm

Now that that's out of the way!

Religion was one of my majors in college (Emphases on Christianity and Comparative Religion, though I also took some courses about Judaism). I was raised Methodist and went to college with the intent of becoming a youth minister. It didn't quite pan out that way. When I got to college, I realized how many questions I had that weren't answered by sitting in church listening to a sermon but were being answered by academic courses and actually STUDYING the Bible (and its historical basis, the way the world was at the times it was being written, cultural interpretations, etc etc etc). It was eye-opening to say the least. I had some absolutely phenomenal professors, and I wouldn't be where I am today without them.

As to what my faith is nowadays... I'm really not sure. One of my professors called me "a religious seeker," which I definitely agree with. I don't believe that any one faith has a monopoly on truth; I've learned more about my beliefs by reading other religions than the one I was raised with. Honestly, these days, I'd classify myself as an agnostic, but I feel more drawn to Judaism than anything else; it's a beautiful religion and they know where they come from (something I felt was lacking in my religious upbringing). They've suffered more than any group of people in history, and have still survived and persevered. That's why Hitler (and everyone before him) persecuted the Jews--because they claim to be the Chosen People of God, if you can wipe them out, it logically follows that you're more powerful than their God.

Big mistake on their part, apparently.

That's all I've got for now. Who has questions? Let's get a dialog going here!

Post #7 » by **Mr. E** » Sat Apr 9, 2011 5:31 pm

Raised Catholic. Became Episcopalean over time. I go to the same church as George HW Bush. Nice guy.

rocketsballin · Post #8 » by **rocketsballin** » Sat Apr 9, 2011 6:48 pm

i need yall to explain something to me. i've been on these boards for awhile and read your posts. lead me to believe yall wouldnt be anywhere near a church. so are you guys staying true to your religion or what? they allow you to look at pictures of naken women or curse someone out? i understand that no one can go a day without sinning it's in human nature, and you can repent for those things, but i know daam well all of you dont try as hard as you can to prevent yourselves from sinning. (i think what i'm saying only applies to christian/catholic religion but im not sure)

i used to go to church in like 8-10th grade. christian religion. we didnt take anything out of the bible, we also didnt **** around. most people were true to being a christian. i tried to be real but i never was, just scared s**tless of hell.

btw i'm agnostic. i'm not trying to find a religion or anything like that but i definitely believe in some kind of higher power or something. havent give it much thought but i cant believe there's absolutely nothing else out there. i dont think it demands to be worshiped, just live our lives, dont do bad things, bla bla bla.

MaxRider · Post #9 » by **MaxRider** » Sat Apr 9, 2011 7:49 pm

YoungMoney23 wrote:I claim my religious preference to be Jedi, anyone else follow?

does princess amidala part of it? if not, i'll turn to the dark side

College Boy · Post #10 » by **College Boy** » Sat Apr 9, 2011 7:55 pm

Optimism Prime wrote:Now that that's out of the way!

Religion was one of my majors in college (Emphases on Christianity and Comparative Religion, though I also took some courses about Judaism). I was raised Methodist and went to college with the intent of becoming a youth minister. It didn't quite pan out that way. When I got to college, I realized how many questions I had that weren't answered by sitting in church listening to a sermon but were being answered by academic courses and actually STUDYING the Bible (and its historical basis, the way the world was at the times it was being written, cultural interpretations, etc etc etc). It was eye-opening to say the least. I had some absolutely phenomenal professors, and I wouldn't be where I am today without them.

Yeah me too. I went through the same process except for the youth minister part. I never felt like the ministry was for me. I just had an interest in religions people's faiths.

Optimism Prime wrote:As to what my faith is nowadays... I'm really not sure. One of my professors called me "a religious seeker," which I definitely agree with. I don't believe that any one faith has a monopoly on truth; I've learned more about my beliefs by reading other religions than the one I was raised with. Honestly, these days, I'd classify myself as an agnostic, but I feel more drawn to Judaism than anything else; it's a beautiful religion and they know where they come from (something I felt was lacking in my religious upbringing). They've suffered more than any group of people in history, and have still survived and persevered. That's why Hitler (and everyone before him) persecuted the Jews--because they claim to be the Chosen People of God, if you can wipe them out, it logically follows that you're more powerful than their God.

Wow, I learned much about my faith and truth as well from other religions. Before I took courses on Judaism, Buddhism, Islam, etc. I was very close minded about religion outside of Christianity. As I began to learn about them I began to realize that their core principles and truths were much like my own. I remember we did an activity once where the prof took quotes out each holy book and had us guess which one was which. No one was able to get all of them right, because they were all saying the same thing. I found that the three main religions (Christianity, Judaism, and Islam) actually do worship the same God (the God of Abraham), they just interpret Him in different ways. This was very shocking. For a year or two I would classified myself as believing in all paths, but that has since changed. I would like to believe that all of those who recognize and give respect to God would make it to heaven, but based on what I know as the truth, I just can't say that at this point. That is something I can say about my faith, it is ever changing with the more I learn. That is why I like to find out about other people's faith and how they came to believe it. Though the main character has been the same, the minor details changed dramatically while in college.

And I was very shocked at how much more information was in the Bible that you didn't learn from Church sermons. And I'm not talking about some obscure passages that no one talks about, I mean the ones that everybody knows. I learned a lot by taking an academic approach to the situation. The Bible is full of information, I really believe it is impossible to know the Bible inside and out. You could read it 100 times and learn something new every time.

But surprisingly, these things had the opposite effect on me than it had on you. I became stronger in my faith because of these findings. So I am very interested in learning how you defected. Was there one specific moment in which you came to believe you were no longer "Christian" or did this happen incrementally? Also, what do you mean when you say "they know where they come from (something I felt was lacking in my religious upbringing)."? If you died today, what do you think would happen? In reference to identifying with Judaism, do you not believe Jesus is the son of God, came to Earth, died for our sins, rose on the 3rd day?

College Boy · Post #11 » by **College Boy** » Sat Apr 9, 2011 8:16 pm

roxfashoballin wrote:i need yall to explain something to me. i've been on these boards for awhile and read your posts. lead me to believe yall wouldnt be anywhere near a church. so are you guys staying true to your religion or what? they allow you to look at pictures of naken women or curse someone out? i understand that no one can go a day without sinning it's in human nature, and you can repent for those things, but i know daam well all of you dont try as hard as you can to prevent yourselves from sinning. (i think what i'm saying only applies to christian/catholic religion but im not sure)

This is a very good question sir. Let me start by saying there is no excuse for my misrepresentation of my faith. I do things that are non conducive to my principles, and I know it. I can't really tell you why I allow myself to fall into temptation, but I do. I am as far from perfect as you can get. All of my life I have stayed away from smoking, drinking, popping pills. I don't steal, I try as hard as I can not to lie, and I have never been big on gambling. Well what is his vice you may ask.... women. I love them, a little too much I might add. My reluctance to give them up baffles me. I know that I am wrong yet I do these things anyway. Why do I do them? (Sigh) I don't know. It's a constant struggle, sometimes the devil wins, sometimes not. But I pray about it constantly, and I hope for my sake, that I change soon. It's really all up to me (as anyone's problem is squarely on their own shoulders). I know if I really wanted to change, it would happen.

This is how I learned not to judge a religion based on it's followers, because my religion would look like crap if I were the poster boy. So to answer your question further, no I am not always staying true to my religious principles. I pray that I will.

roxfashoballin wrote:btw i'm agnostic. i'm not trying to find a religion or anything like that but i definitely believe in some kind of higher power or something. havent give it much thought but i cant believe there's absolutely nothing else out there. i dont think it demands to be worshiped, just live our lives, dont do bad things, bla bla bla.

So, how did you come to these conclusions? Especially the one about the higher power not need to be worshiped? When people say things like this I generally assume it all about convenience (no offense to you, but I am trying to be honest). It just makes them feel better about not actually surrendering to a higher power. I'm not saying that's where you fall into, so please, enlighten me.

Post #12 » by **TMU** » Sat Apr 9, 2011 8:48 pm

roxfashoballin wrote:so are you guys staying true to your religion or what?

I was raised Presbyterian, but I don't consider myself a good Christian. I try to stay true to my religious principles, but there are many times when I make mistakes. But what's more important to me is that I ask for forgiveness, learn from my mistakes, and try to not repeat my mistakes. Of course there's no guarantee that I won't fail again. But believe it or not, there are times when I try.

Joseph17 · Post #13 » by **Joseph17** » Sat Apr 9, 2011 9:26 pm

I'm an Atheist. Feel free to ask me anything about it.

rocketsballin · Post #14 » by **rocketsballin** » Sat Apr 9, 2011 9:39 pm

if you're a kevin martin fan you better be an atheist

College Boy · Post #15 » by **College Boy** » Sat Apr 9, 2011 9:53 pm

Joseph17 wrote:I'm an Atheist. Feel free to ask me anything about it.

Ok, let's start this off with a general question. Why Atheism?

rocketsballin · Post #16 » by **rocketsballin** » Sat Apr 9, 2011 10:13 pm

College Boy wrote:This is a very good question sir. Let me start by saying there is no excuse for my misrepresentation of my faith. I do things that are non conducive to my principles, and I know it. I can't really tell you why I allow myself to fall into temptation, but I do. I am as far from perfect as you can get. All of my life I have stayed away from smoking, drinking, popping pills. I don't steal, I try as hard as I can not to lie, and I have never been big on gambling. Well what is his vice you may ask.... women. I love them, a little too much I might add. My reluctance to give them up baffles me. I know that I am wrong yet I do these things anyway. Why do I do them? (Sigh) I don't know. It's a constant struggle, sometimes the devil wins, sometimes not. But I pray about it constantly, and I hope for my sake, that I change soon. It's really all up to me (as anyone's problem is squarely on their own shoulders). I know if I really wanted to change, it would happen.

i think almost everyone with a religion has a constant struggle. most likely since childhood which is why it's so hard to get rid of. i'm sure your god is ok with it as long as you try hard to change it. i had a lot of constant struggles when i went to church, now i dont see them as struggles

. g/l with your struggles

College Boy wrote:This is how I learned not to judge a religion based on it's followers, because my religion would look like crap if I were the poster boy. So to answer your question further, no I am not always staying true to my religious principles. I pray that I will.

i definitely dont judge a religion based on it's followers. i judge it from a religious standpoint. if it makes sense then good, if not (scientology) then :banghead:

. life can be complicated, hard, crazy, etc - following a religion assures a good life, i'm ok with that.

College Boy wrote:So, how did you come to these conclusions? Especially the one about the higher power not need to be worshiped? When people say things like this I generally assume it all about convenience (no offense to you, but I am trying to be honest). It just makes them feel better about not actually surrendering to a higher power. I'm not saying that's where you fall into, so please, enlighten me.

this is another discussion, and since i only gave my agnostic views very little thought i cant really talk about it in a lot of detail. but to sum it up i dont think humans can comprehend "the higher power". it doesnt want us to know anything about it. we can barely maintain a tiny little planet, how we gonna understand a higher power? just live our lives, do good things, bla bla. maybe it's ok with being worshipped but wont think any less to those that dont.

the world being as **** up as it is, i dont think "a higher power" wants us to worship it. why not just give us hard proof that there is a higher power? it had to know humans are corrupt enough to make their own religion. if there's more than one life maybe we'll understand more. i do wanna believe life doesnt end here, that's horrible to me.

and i forgot to say one reason im agnostic is cuz everything is too "perfect" for the universe to happen "just by random chance" or w/e u wanna call it. earth is at an exact distance from the sun so that it isnt too cold or too hot to live in. why is there even a sun, just randomly there? "air" just happens to exist. humans have eyes, arms legs, mouths, etc. dinosaurs getting wiped off the planet so they wont eat all the humans? of all the species humans conquered the world?

all this stuff can be funny or stupid, i dont care but i cant believe there isnt a higher power.

College Boy · Post #17 » by **College Boy** » Sat Apr 9, 2011 11:30 pm

roxfashoballin wrote:this is another discussion, and since i only gave my agnostic views very little thought i cant really talk about it in a lot of detail. but to sum it up i dont think humans can comprehend "the higher power". it doesnt want us to know anything about it. we can barely maintain a tiny little planet, how we gonna understand a higher power? just live our lives, do good things, bla bla. maybe it's ok with being worshipped but wont think any less to those that dont.

I agree that the human brain is too finite to comprehend God or eternity. And that is why it makes sense to me that He would reveal Himself in the form of man and the Bible. That is also proof to me that He wants to be understood and revered.

roxfashoballin wrote:the world being as **** up as it is, i dont think "a higher power" wants us to worship it. why not just give us hard proof that there is a higher power? it had to know humans are corrupt enough to make their own religion. if there's more than one life maybe we'll understand more. i do wanna believe life doesnt end here, that's horrible to me.

I think you answered your own question in your next statement. Creation is the hardest proof you can get that there is a creator. IMO, he sent prophets and Himself in the form of Jesus to warn us of false religions and teach us exactly how to worship Him.

roxfashoballin wrote:and i forgot to say one reason im agnostic is cuz everything is too "perfect" for the universe to happen "just by random chance" or w/e u wanna call it. earth is at an exact distance from the sun so that it isnt too cold or too hot to live in. why is there even a sun, just randomly there? "air" just happens to exist. humans have eyes, arms legs, mouths, etc. dinosaurs getting wiped off the planet so they wont eat all the humans? of all the species humans conquered the world?

all this stuff can be funny or stupid, i dont care but i cant believe there isnt a higher power.

I agree with you 100%. The universe was carefully created IMO. Not randomly thrown together.

Now you mentioned that you did go to church at one point. What happened to make you stray?

kam_soluusar · Post #18 » by **kam_soluusar** » Sat Apr 9, 2011 11:42 pm

Grab a Beer or whatever, this could take a while.

I was born into nothingness, from a religious perspective. my parents divorced when I was 2 years old. Somewhere along the line, my mother decided we, (My sister and I) would get a better education at a Catholic School. So we were baptised etc, and off we went to Catholic School. for me, this lasted until about year 9, before I was able to free myself from the clutches of religion. ever since then, I have considered myself an atheist.

Now I know that there are different sorts of Athiests, there are those that believe in "a god, or higher power" but not one as is perceived in most religious texts. then there are those, that do not believe in any god whatsoever, these people are generally believed to be naturalists. If I were to lable myself in any way, Jedi would be the one I most identify with, (being a Star Wars nut!) but I am definately closer to being a naturalist.

So Science, in my mind, rules over religion. Do I have faith? Yes. I have faith that the Rockets will get better soon. Do I have faith in Religion? Hell no.

I look at all the evil going on in the world. The wars, the atrocities, all in the name of god. Let me ask you this, when was the last time an Athiest started a war? It's never happened. And I don't consider Buddhism to be a religion, that is just a way of life. (Not that any Buddhists have started war either!)

So how does being an athiest affect my life? Well to begin with, I do not celebrate either Christmas or Easter. My reasoning for this, is that they are CHRISTIAN holidays and I am not a Christian. I am not Muslim, and I don't do Ramadan, so if I am not Christian, why would I celebrate Christmas. People will argue that Christmas is about spending time with your family. If I am not mistaken, it's about the birth of Christ. So therefore, I don't do it.

I do have a lot of "Christian" values, but I believe a lot of these values are just about common decency, not Religion, (don't kill, steal etc!) I really have no problem with people having "ideas" on god or religion, but it really is when those "ideas" become "beliefs" that it get's dangerous. people won't die or kill for an idea, they will for a belief. So I guess my ire isn't directed at one's belief, or lack thereof of god. It is at "Organised Religion" that create structured belief systems, that are dangerous. If I had my way, i would Raze every Church, Mosque, Synagogue, place of communal worship to the ground, and make everyone start over. But this, I also realise is a problem, as it would make me no better than the religions i have grown to despise.

I guess you could just stop short of calling me a fundamental Atheist.

kam_soluusar · Post #19 » by **kam_soluusar** » Sat Apr 9, 2011 11:46 pm

And I heard a 5 year old ask this question of his mother.

"If god created us in his own image, who created god?"

I see religion as a form of control. Control by fear to be more exact. I find Religion to be Hypocritical, dishonest, and just plain evil.

Again. this is MY opinion, and I mean no Dis-respect to any out there that have religious beliefs. I am glad that we have had an open forum where we can openly discuss religion without fear of persecution. I guess this is one of the great advantages of living in a western society.

College Boy · Post #20 » by **College Boy** » Sun Apr 10, 2011 12:32 am

Before I get into any rebuttals, I would like to thank you for being honest and open. As I stated before, I love having these types of discussions with people. So thank you.

kam_soluusar wrote:I was born into nothingness, from a religious perspective. my parents divorced when I was 2 years old. Somewhere along the line, my mother decided we, (My sister and I) would get a better education at a Catholic School. So we were baptised etc, and off we went to Catholic School. for me, this lasted until about year 9, before I was able to free myself from the clutches of religion. ever since then, I have considered myself an atheist.

What happened at such a young age that made you so adverse to religion?

kam_soluusar wrote:Now I know that there are different sorts of Athiests, there are those that believe in "a god, or higher power" but not one as is perceived in most religious texts. then there are those, that do not believe in any god whatsoever, these people are generally believed to be naturalists. If I were to lable myself in any way, Jedi would be the one I most identify with, (being a Star Wars nut!) but I am definately closer to being a naturalist.

Ok, so are you one that doesn't think the Jesus of the Bible ever existed? Or are there parts of the Bible that you recognize as true?

kam_soluusar wrote:So Science, in my mind, rules over religion. Do I have faith? Yes. I have faith that the Rockets will get better soon. Do I have faith in Religion? Hell no.

This has always been a hot point, and I'm glad you brought it up. To me science vs religion does not make sense. It's ,for the lack of a better comparison, like comparing apples to oranges. It's like some one saying Earl Campbell is better than Michael Jordan. They are two different things that actually live in harmony as opposed to opposition. For me science explains how, and religion explain why. So any scientific findings that are supposed to disprove some sort of religious claim only strengthen my resolve.

I am a Christian AND I believe in evolution. I believe in the Big Bang and the Creation Story. To put it in more simple terms, God would be the sculptor and science would be His tools. So many people think you can only believe one or the other, but I see that as a demonic ploy to distract us from the truth, and keep people at odds with each other. IMO science is only the study of God's methods. God doesn't always work in inexplicable ways, and as we grow more intelligent we are finally starting to catch up. So the more we learn about how complex the atom is or how infinitely large the Universe is, it only makes me revere God that much more.

So to argue God vs science would be similar to walking into the Sistine Chapel and hearing two people arguing about what created the masterpiece on the ceiling, Michelangelo or the paintbrush. Its obvious by examination that brush marks were used to spread the paint, so it had to be the brush. But it would be impossible for the brush to operate itself. So Michelangelo created the painting with his bare hands? Do you understand how I can see this reasoning as flawed? I'm not saying that's what you think, because I don't know you. But from most people I've talked to, that's how that view it.

kam_soluusar wrote:I look at all the evil going on in the world. The wars, the atrocities, all in the name of god. Let me ask you this, when was the last time an Athiest started a war? It's never happened. And I don't consider Buddhism to be a religion, that is just a way of life. (Not that any Buddhists have started war either!)

kam_soluusar wrote:I do have a lot of "Christian" values, but I believe a lot of these values are just about common decency, not Religion, (don't kill, steal etc!) I really have no problem with people having "ideas" on god or religion, but it really is when those "ideas" become "beliefs" that it get's dangerous. people won't die or kill for an idea, they will for a belief. So I guess my ire isn't directed at one's belief, or lack thereof of god. It is at "Organised Religion" that create structured belief systems, that are dangerous. If I had my way, i would Raze every Church, Mosque, Synagogue, place of communal worship to the ground, and make everyone start over. But this, I also realise is a problem, as it would make me no better than the religions i have grown to despise.

I guess you could just stop short of calling me a fundamental Atheist.

It sounds to me that you have more of a problem with "religious people", not necessarily religion.