J.Johnson's Game and Approach: Straight GARBAGE
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J.Johnson's Game and Approach: Straight GARBAGE
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J.Johnson's Game and Approach: Straight GARBAGE
I have been watching what's going on with the Hawks, and I feel sorry for the fans in Atlanta. You guys have a heck of a situation to deal with, because you are in a position where you need to make some changes, but the main change that is necessary isn't possible. NO TEAM is going to want to pay $120Million for a game and approach to the game that is synonymous with GARBAGE.
Alot of you guys don't feel comfortable saying it, but I will: Joe Johnson's game is GARBAGE. The fact that he is playing like he is, with the money he is making is very unfair to the fans and franchise. I wish that I could share some secret to the success of the franchise, but I think the obvious issue to address is JOE JOHNSON, it starts and stops there IMO.
Alot of you guys don't feel comfortable saying it, but I will: Joe Johnson's game is GARBAGE. The fact that he is playing like he is, with the money he is making is very unfair to the fans and franchise. I wish that I could share some secret to the success of the franchise, but I think the obvious issue to address is JOE JOHNSON, it starts and stops there IMO.
Re: J.Johnson's Game and Approach: Straight GARBAGE
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Re: J.Johnson's Game and Approach: Straight GARBAGE
well its really 100 mil left, and his problem is that he is a role player who uts up 20 per game because he gets a lot of touches. He doesn't have the ability to drive and get fouled.
"Although I explored several different opportunities this offseason, Atlanta was the place I wanted to be," Johnson said. "I truly appreciate the commitment shown by the Hawks and the team’s ownership, and their continued efforts to improve the team. Staying in Atlanta provides the best opportunity to win today and in the future. My five years with the Hawks have been the best of my career, and I look forward to my teammates and I trying to reach our ultimate goal together – competing for a championship for the city of Atlanta."
Magic Johnson restructured his $1M per year salary to allow the team to get better...if we could restructure for $14 mil trade Marv for expirings. We could get Deron/CP3 and D12 one year from now!
"Although I explored several different opportunities this offseason, Atlanta was the place I wanted to be," Johnson said. "I truly appreciate the commitment shown by the Hawks and the team’s ownership, and their continued efforts to improve the team. Staying in Atlanta provides the best opportunity to win today and in the future. My five years with the Hawks have been the best of my career, and I look forward to my teammates and I trying to reach our ultimate goal together – competing for a championship for the city of Atlanta."
Magic Johnson restructured his $1M per year salary to allow the team to get better...if we could restructure for $14 mil trade Marv for expirings. We could get Deron/CP3 and D12 one year from now!
Re: J.Johnson's Game and Approach: Straight GARBAGE
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Re: J.Johnson's Game and Approach: Straight GARBAGE
That is some crazy restructuring going down, will the free agent superstars also be restructuring their contracts when they come here for pennies on the dollar? This isn't the NFL, all contracts in the NBA are fully guaranteed as of the last half dozen CBA's or so. The only way to change the structure of your contract is in the initial signing phase similar to Wes Matthews or Nick Collison and how they received more money up front. You can't just say to management "hey, pay me only one dollar this year and go get Dwight", it simply doesn't work that way. Restructuring doesn't mean "give up money" either, it's either money get's deferred to later years or you receive it in a manner that doesn't count against the cap such as a roster or signing bonus.
Beyond that, I will say I have zero problem paying Joe as is. It beats paying the likes of Gil Arenas (whom got traded btw, OP) Michael Redd, Jermaine O'Neal, AI and TMac when they were or are all making 20mil while sitting in an Armani suits or struggling their way to barely 30% shooting and only 15 minutes of play. Despite Joe's "garbage" game and "garbage" approach he hasn't been a negative influence to the team both on and off the court like other maxes have.
Beyond that, I will say I have zero problem paying Joe as is. It beats paying the likes of Gil Arenas (whom got traded btw, OP) Michael Redd, Jermaine O'Neal, AI and TMac when they were or are all making 20mil while sitting in an Armani suits or struggling their way to barely 30% shooting and only 15 minutes of play. Despite Joe's "garbage" game and "garbage" approach he hasn't been a negative influence to the team both on and off the court like other maxes have.
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Re: J.Johnson's Game and Approach: Straight GARBAGE
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Re: J.Johnson's Game and Approach: Straight GARBAGE
Rashard Lewis wasn't a negative influence unless you count the fact that he wasn't performing.
and Hawks never made the playoffs until Horford made the team, but management was scared and panicked.
It looks like Hawks won't be competing for a championship soon and the best that management can do is sell the fans on the hope of being competitive. If this team gets swept one more year and Larry Drew is fired...you can only fire so many coaches bedore you have to reassess everybody's value to the team. The next easiest person to blame will be Josh Smith. Josh Smith is the most vocal player in the locker room, and people will continue saying he is a cancer....After Larry is gone he will be gone.
On that note I'd very much like to see Josh Smith in a Clipper jersey.

and Hawks never made the playoffs until Horford made the team, but management was scared and panicked.
It looks like Hawks won't be competing for a championship soon and the best that management can do is sell the fans on the hope of being competitive. If this team gets swept one more year and Larry Drew is fired...you can only fire so many coaches bedore you have to reassess everybody's value to the team. The next easiest person to blame will be Josh Smith. Josh Smith is the most vocal player in the locker room, and people will continue saying he is a cancer....After Larry is gone he will be gone.
On that note I'd very much like to see Josh Smith in a Clipper jersey.

Re: J.Johnson's Game and Approach: Straight GARBAGE
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Re: J.Johnson's Game and Approach: Straight GARBAGE
You could say that the Hawks never made the playoffs until Bibby got here seeing as we struggled mightily before his arrival and we still went right ahead and shipped him off.
Rashard was being paid 20 million to be a 4th option on Orlando behind Dwight, Jameer and Hedo/Vince. I wouldn't go ahead to say that that is quite a negative impact but it isn't a positive one either. You can never say that about Joe considering that he contributes far more to the team than camping out on the corner 3 waiting for everyone else to create for him. I would say that team runs quite the opposite, actually.
Rashard was being paid 20 million to be a 4th option on Orlando behind Dwight, Jameer and Hedo/Vince. I wouldn't go ahead to say that that is quite a negative impact but it isn't a positive one either. You can never say that about Joe considering that he contributes far more to the team than camping out on the corner 3 waiting for everyone else to create for him. I would say that team runs quite the opposite, actually.
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Re: J.Johnson's Game and Approach: Straight GARBAGE
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Re: J.Johnson's Game and Approach: Straight GARBAGE
Rashard Lewis and Joe are actually similar. Both aren't worth 20+ million, but both aren't negative impact guys either. I actually believe a good deal between Dallas and Minny could be achieved, without necessarily being a dump deal.
To say that the Hawks never made the playoffs till Horford arrived is BS to make Horford look good. Hawks were an improving team regardless, and Horford just so happened to be picked that year. If we got Noah instead, we would have still made the playoffs and actually would have had a better fit. Even when we did draft Horford, we still struggled until Bibby arrived and threw us into the playoffs.
Back to the actual subject. Joe doesn't have a garbage game, but the Hawks need another scorer on the court to compliment him. Marvin for Bargnani is the move I see that can get a 7 footer that can score. Everybody will rag on his defense and rebounding, but we have 2 solid rebounders that give us 16-20 a game between the 2 and Bargs isn't all that bad on post ups if we provide help defense, which we have also.
To say that the Hawks never made the playoffs till Horford arrived is BS to make Horford look good. Hawks were an improving team regardless, and Horford just so happened to be picked that year. If we got Noah instead, we would have still made the playoffs and actually would have had a better fit. Even when we did draft Horford, we still struggled until Bibby arrived and threw us into the playoffs.
Back to the actual subject. Joe doesn't have a garbage game, but the Hawks need another scorer on the court to compliment him. Marvin for Bargnani is the move I see that can get a 7 footer that can score. Everybody will rag on his defense and rebounding, but we have 2 solid rebounders that give us 16-20 a game between the 2 and Bargs isn't all that bad on post ups if we provide help defense, which we have also.
Re: J.Johnson's Game and Approach: Straight GARBAGE
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Re: J.Johnson's Game and Approach: Straight GARBAGE
MaceCase wrote:You could say that the Hawks never made the playoffs until Bibby got here seeing as we struggled mightily before his arrival and we still went right ahead and shipped him off.
Rashard was being paid 20 million to be a 4th option on Orlando behind Dwight, Jameer and Hedo/Vince. I wouldn't go ahead to say that that is quite a negative impact but it isn't a positive one either. You can never say that about Joe considering that he contributes far more to the team than camping out on the corner 3 waiting for everyone else to create for him. I would say that team runs quite the opposite, actually.
All I'm saying is that this small lineup will never be a consistent winner. The small jump shooting teams around the league have all broken down, PHX never had the defense, GSW is terrible despite Ellis and Curry.
Bottom line is there will be a time Hawks need to go Big against certain teams. Maybe that means Joe at point longer but to compare Bibby's impact to Horford's is disingenuous.
Bibby was an average point guard as far as defense/offense production balancing/negating each other even when he first got here. What made him look good is that he replaced Tyronn Lue and Anthony Johnson.
Horford gave the team the guy who was tough down low even though he played out of position he helped match up against 50% of the leagues playoff centers.
Joe Johnson's main advantage is he is 6'8 playing SG. Marvin is 6'7.75 and can play the system better because he moves without the ball can finish off of backcuts above the rim etc.
Joe is a great Jack of all trades player but the give me the ball and clear out will only work for so long because he is not a defensive game changer.
He eats shots while creating nothing on defense. This team is going nowhere fast.
Re: J.Johnson's Game and Approach: Straight GARBAGE
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Re: J.Johnson's Game and Approach: Straight GARBAGE
That aside Joe Johnson would be tolerable if he were not relied upon so much ie if he were playing next to Lebron or Chris Paul.
He is a deadly second option because he can do so much ala Lebron but he is just not a premier player. His impact is too easily negated. Gr8 player but if Hawks had used advanced numbers they would have seen that he is the third most efficient player on the team despite the All-Star nods.
He is a deadly second option because he can do so much ala Lebron but he is just not a premier player. His impact is too easily negated. Gr8 player but if Hawks had used advanced numbers they would have seen that he is the third most efficient player on the team despite the All-Star nods.
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Re: J.Johnson's Game and Approach: Straight GARBAGE
All I'm saying is that the reason that I find Joe's contract palatable now that what's done is done is because no matter what he is still one of the best players on this team. He is not an afterthought on the offense and definitely not in the defensive attention that he receives. As flawed as he is the other two players that are supposedly better than him are just as if not more flawed than that. Al is extremely efficient within his role but is not fully capable of taken on a larger role consistently. Josh has tried to seize the mantle as a go to guy on offense but, by those same advance statistics you are damning Joe with, is one of the most offensively inefficient players in the entire league in attempting to do so. Even worse than Joe despite this being a near career worst. All this leads me to say is so what we are paying a true 2nd option superstar money? We are paying two guys that are at best fringe 3rd options good money also. Joe won't be a real problem to me until we get not 1 but at least two other players that are undoubtedly better than him in most aspects of the game.
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Re: J.Johnson's Game and Approach: Straight GARBAGE
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Re: J.Johnson's Game and Approach: Straight GARBAGE
Ruhiel wrote:
All I'm saying is that this small lineup will never be a consistent winner. The small jump shooting teams around the league have all broken down, PHX never had the defense, GSW is terrible despite Ellis and Curry.
Bottom line is there will be a time Hawks need to go Big against certain teams. Maybe that means Joe at point longer but to compare Bibby's impact to Horford's is disingenuous.
Bibby was an average point guard as far as defense/offense production balancing/negating each other even when he first got here. What made him look good is that he replaced Tyronn Lue and Anthony Johnson.
Horford gave the team the guy who was tough down low even though he played out of position he helped match up against 50% of the leagues playoff centers.
Joe Johnson's main advantage is he is 6'8 playing SG. Marvin is 6'7.75
Your argument is flawed as to say Horford having a bigger impact. Before the deadline that year, Hawks were below .500 by 8 games. After the deadline we still finished under .500, but Bibby averaged 14 PPG and 6.5 APG. Pretty much before the deadline, we didn't even have a PG and looked to not even make the playoffs, but we upgraded significantly enough to suitability stay in the playoff hunt. Had we stayed with our current PG's at the time, we would have never made the playoffs.
Marvin is 6'9 BTW and Joe is 6'7, just saying.
Re: J.Johnson's Game and Approach: Straight GARBAGE
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Re: J.Johnson's Game and Approach: Straight GARBAGE
Geaux_Hawks wrote:Marvin is 6'9 BTW and Joe is 6'7, just saying.
As of their combines they both measured out at 6'8.25" in shoes and 6'6.75" and 6'7" without shoes respectively. If it's assumed that Marvin grew an inch to 6'9" with shoes then it should also be assumed that Joe grew legitimately to 6'8" no matter the shoe sole.
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Re: J.Johnson's Game and Approach: Straight GARBAGE
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Re: J.Johnson's Game and Approach: Straight GARBAGE
Geaux_Hawks wrote:Ruhiel wrote:
All I'm saying is that this small lineup will never be a consistent winner. The small jump shooting teams around the league have all broken down, PHX never had the defense, GSW is terrible despite Ellis and Curry.
Bottom line is there will be a time Hawks need to go Big against certain teams. Maybe that means Joe at point longer but to compare Bibby's impact to Horford's is disingenuous.
Bibby was an average point guard as far as defense/offense production balancing/negating each other even when he first got here. What made him look good is that he replaced Tyronn Lue and Anthony Johnson.
Horford gave the team the guy who was tough down low even though he played out of position he helped match up against 50% of the leagues playoff centers.
Joe Johnson's main advantage is he is 6'8 playing SG. Marvin is 6'7.75
Your argument is flawed as to say Horford having a bigger impact. Before the deadline that year, Hawks were below .500 by 8 games. After the deadline we still finished under .500, but Bibby averaged 14 PPG and 6.5 APG. Pretty much before the deadline, we didn't even have a PG and looked to not even make the playoffs, but we upgraded significantly enough to suitability stay in the playoff hunt. Had we stayed with our current PG's at the time, we would have never made the playoffs.
Marvin is 6'9 BTW and Joe is 6'7, just saying.
Had we stayed with our current PG's at the time, we would have never made the playoffs.
I agree with this but the point is Horford is now unreplaceable, Bibby aged and became replaceable, the way Joe was semi-replaceable last year and is definitely replaceable this year.
Hawks will need to retool because they mismanaged Joe imo.
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Sorta like how Battier is 6'8 and Lebron is 6'9. Lower height lowers expectations. Bigger size increases perceptions of greatness?

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Shane-Battier-1619/stats/
Re: J.Johnson's Game and Approach: Straight GARBAGE
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Re: J.Johnson's Game and Approach: Straight GARBAGE
Horford is very replaceable just like anybody on this roster..
Re: J.Johnson's Game and Approach: Straight GARBAGE
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Re: J.Johnson's Game and Approach: Straight GARBAGE
Ruhiel wrote:Geaux_Hawks wrote:Ruhiel wrote:
All I'm saying is that this small lineup will never be a consistent winner. The small jump shooting teams around the league have all broken down, PHX never had the defense, GSW is terrible despite Ellis and Curry.
Bottom line is there will be a time Hawks need to go Big against certain teams. Maybe that means Joe at point longer but to compare Bibby's impact to Horford's is disingenuous.
Bibby was an average point guard as far as defense/offense production balancing/negating each other even when he first got here. What made him look good is that he replaced Tyronn Lue and Anthony Johnson.
Horford gave the team the guy who was tough down low even though he played out of position he helped match up against 50% of the leagues playoff centers.
Joe Johnson's main advantage is he is 6'8 playing SG. Marvin is 6'7.75
Your argument is flawed as to say Horford having a bigger impact. Before the deadline that year, Hawks were below .500 by 8 games. After the deadline we still finished under .500, but Bibby averaged 14 PPG and 6.5 APG. Pretty much before the deadline, we didn't even have a PG and looked to not even make the playoffs, but we upgraded significantly enough to suitability stay in the playoff hunt. Had we stayed with our current PG's at the time, we would have never made the playoffs.
Marvin is 6'9 BTW and Joe is 6'7, just saying.
Had we stayed with our current PG's at the time, we would have never made the playoffs.
I agree with this but the point is Horford is now unreplaceable, Bibby aged and became replaceable, the way Joe was semi-replaceable last year and is definitely replaceable this year.
Hawks will need to retool because they mismanaged Joe imo.
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Sorta like how Battier is 6'8 and Lebron is 6'9. Lower height lowers expectations. Bigger size increases perceptions of greatness?It's only one inch but I feel like the media plays trix when they tell these little lies (:|)
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Shane-Battier-1619/stats/
I can't believe he's nearly 6'10
Re: J.Johnson's Game and Approach: Straight GARBAGE
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Re: J.Johnson's Game and Approach: Straight GARBAGE
feeling your pain. Hang in there guys. At least he's still producing. Want frustration? See Rashard and now Gil.
Old School Magic Fan since 1990
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RHBullsFan wrote:feeling your pain. Hang in there guys. At least he's still producing. Want frustration? See Rashard and now Gil.
Your right that he is still producing now. The latter years of the contract may be a bit more painful. Probably limited in the moves they can make in the offseason but may need to try and switch it up a bit..
