ATL/ORL trade (copy from Trade Board)

[azuresou1]

This assumes that the Magic don't win it all this year, and LOLHawks need to rebuild.

Atlanta sends Joe Johnson, Marvin Williams, Zaza Pachulia
Orlando sends Gilbert Arenas, Daniel Orton, Earl Clark (team option picked up), TPE, 2012 1st, 2014 conditional 1st

Atlanta sheds tons of money, going from $140.6MM until 2015/16 to a mere $65.6MM until 2013/14, and an additional $13.7MM if they want to keep Orton and Clark till 2014/15 and 2013/14, respectively. It also gives them cheap if unproven replacements at the SF and C spot, with an unknown amount of upside.

Orlando gears and ships out non-producing parts for quality players, with JJ as the #2 option behind Dwight. Dwight probably isn't going to be enticed to stay by the prospect of young developing talent, particularly one that plays the same position; on the other hand, adding a legitimate All-Star would help their chances at a title, which would have to help convince him to stay.

Atlanta:
Teague/ vet min guard
Hinrich/vet min guard
Josh Smith/Earl Clark
Al Horford/Josh Smith
Daniel Orton/Al Horford/vet min bigman

Orlando:
Jameer Nelson/Chris Duhon
Joe Johnson/Quentin Richardson
Marvin Williams/Hedo Turkoglu
Brandon Bass/Ryan Anderson
Dwight Howard/Zaza Pachulia

[RHBullsFan]

you guys would take Gilbert Arenas????

[parson]

I was wrong when I said that Arenas' contact can be voided in 2 years. The Early Termination Option he holds is his alone to use. This trade dumps Joe for an equally bad contract -- but with an infinitely lesser player.

So, we dump Joe ONLY to get rid of Zaza and Marvelous?

And, even if we could lower salary by terminating Arenas in 2012, wouldn't that mean the Magic would be helping us to sign Dwight Howard? Why would they do that?

Plus, I can't get your trade to work on the Trade Machine or Trade Checker.

[azuresou1]

We dump Joe to get rid of Zaza and Marvelous while picking up Daniel Orton, Earl Clark, and 2 1sts. Trade doesn't work in Trade Machine because Earl Clark has a team option, which in this trade we'd ask Orlando to do.

Even without voiding Arenas' contract, we save money. The figures I threw out assume that he would take the player option.

[evildallas]

Intriguing, swapping the two worst contracts in basketball. I think I would pass on it as currently constructed. From an owner point of view the core of the trade may ultimately be something to do, Joe for Arenas, but I think the rest of it is shaky. As much as I hate Marvin Williams (and it has developed into hate), he's shown signs of life with Joe out of the lineup. I'm not sure I'd jettison him in the deal, instead I might hope that without Joe or Jamal to defer to on offense that he shows enough to gain more trade value. Daniel Orton is raw, but unless we hire Clifford Ray to coach him then I have a feeling he's going to be very mediocre. The picks are late 1st rounders at best (you know the type we blow or give away). Not saying that can't be useful, but questioning whether we can use them wisely enough to value them in a trade.

Since Gilbert doesn't give immediate cap relief, it makes little since to dump Marvin and Zaza's contracts unless you are getting real building blocks back because they'd expire before you could spend anyway. As it was pointed out "we save money", but unless we save money in a way that allows for building the roster it doesn't really help the fans. The money difference in year 1 doesn't get us enough cap room to address the holes it creates.

IF you do a trade like this you don't do it in a vacuum, you also deal Josh Smith in a separate deal and hope for lottery help as you rebuild the roster. Freeing up money in summer of 2014 doesn't help if you have to make a decision to reinvest in Josh in 2013. You may as well gut the team done to Horford and start building back.

1 point of clarification:
My understanding is that Earl Clark is a free agent at the end of the year. His option wasn't picked up by Phoenix and then he was dealt. Orlando doesn't have an option to pick up there.

[johnny878]

only deal ive seen worse on this board for the hawks, is when a few people were pushing for hasheem thabeet trade around the deadline with josh smith bein the centerpiece to the deal.

[parson]

We dump Joe to get rid of Zaza and Marvelous while picking up Daniel Orton, Earl Clark, and 2 1sts.

That's lousy return on talent. Besides, until we get another Center, we NEED Zaza. Orton aint it.

Trade doesn't work in Trade Machine because Earl Clark has a team option, which in this trade we'd ask Orlando to do.

That'd be with next year's numbers, where Joe is making about $2 million more.

Even without voiding Arenas' contract, we save money. The figures I threw out assume that he would take the player option.

You wasted that assumption. There is no way - as low as Arenas has sunk- that he'd ever give up that money. He has absolutely no chance of ever earning more in another FA contract. He would stay for the duration.

He's part of the reason that DH will probably leave ORL -- they can't improve with his contract. Their only hope was in him getting his legs back under him.

[Bucked19]

Jameer Nelson/Chris Duhon
Joe Johnson/Quentin Richardson
Marvin Williams/Hedo Turkoglu
Brandon Bass/Ryan Anderson
Dwight Howard/Zaza Pachulia

That would be a real good squad and it would be funny cause Atlanta would get killed by them all the time

[Geaux_Hawks]

Jameer Nelson/Chris Duhon
Joe Johnson/Quentin Richardson
Marvin Williams/Hedo Turkoglu
Brandon Bass/Ryan Anderson
Dwight Howard/Zaza Pachulia

That would be a real good squad and it would be funny cause Atlanta would get killed by them all the time

Dwight can get some quality breathers,Hedo would start, but Marvin could score and get touches like he did in 08-09 coming off the bench with Ryan, Reddick, Duhon, & Zaza. Joe would finally be in his Robin role, while Reddick & Anderson providing the perimeter shooting. No reason for Dwight to even think about leaving.

[HMFFL]

It makes no sense to me and I have zero interest in Gilbert Arenas. This trade would set us back for the next three seasons.

[azuresou1]

@evil: Saving money from a fan perspective doesn't make sense, but from an organizational standpoint it totally does, because it makes it significantly easier to sell. If I had $600 mill, I absolutely would not buy the current Hawks, and that's as a fan. A stripped down roster where I can stockpile young players with minimal financial losses before I gun up for a championship run? ... Maybe.

@parson: I would have been fine with a platoon for Orton/Horford/vet min big, but now that Earl Clark is out, what about Ryan Anderson in his stead? As for Gilbert, him having a shorter contract also means that we could buy him out earlier - I'd think he would probably agree to an 80% buyout.

[evildallas]

@evil: Saving money from a fan perspective doesn't make sense, but from an organizational standpoint it totally does, because it makes it significantly easier to sell. If I had $600 mill, I absolutely would not buy the current Hawks, and that's as a fan. A stripped down roster where I can stockpile young players with minimal financial losses before I gun up for a championship run? ... Maybe.

@parson: I would have been fine with a platoon for Orton/Horford/vet min big, but now that Earl Clark is out, what about Ryan Anderson in his stead? As for Gilbert, him having a shorter contract also means that we could buy him out earlier - I'd think he would probably agree to an 80% buyout.

The trade doesn't give you a stripped down roster that you can stockpile young players on. You're still cap strapped for 3 years and a few million in wiggle room isn't going to make that much of a difference to a perspective buyer.

Also don't count on buying out Gilbert Arenas. I think he realizes that he'll not get more than league minimum from here on out, so I don't see him giving up 4-5M in money.

[evildallas]

Also, as you consider dumping Joe and Marvin on Orlando for a bad contract and baubles, I counter that Cleveland might be a willing to take on Joe because they would have the rookie deals of lottery picks to surround him with and offset the costs. Cleveland has the huge contracts of Baron Davis and Antwan Jamison to work with as well as a big TPE. I theorized it might require sacrificing Josh to make it happen, but maybe not?

How about:
Joe Johnson
Marvin Williams
Zaza Pachulia
for
Baron Davis
Antwan Jamison
Semih Erden

No late picks in the deal, but instead we are under the cap in a season and essentially a clean slate after 2 seasons (only Al still under contract)

Cleveland gets a talent overhaul for eating salary and with their 2 lottery picks (in theory Kyrie Irving and a big) from this season and JJ Hickson and Anderson Varejeo to go with Joe Johnson, they are instantly back into the playoffs. Depending on how those lottery picks develop they could be a contender right away. If that is too much long term contract for them to swallow we could take by Varajeo instead of Jamison and still make it work just without as much freedom. If we want quicker salary relief they could use the TPE. Also Cleveland has the incentive to get Baron Davis out of town before he interacts with the new rookies.

If you are concerned about salaries affecting the selling of the team then these deals work better than anything with Gilbert.

[azuresou1]

I'd be fine with any deal that dumps out Joe Johnson for less committed money.

[myrak433]

why are some of you all acting like the money Joe is getting is coming out of your pocket? Joe makes what he makes. get over it. he is certainly a better player than gilbert arenas, antawn jamison, and baron davis at this stage of their careers. just face it Joe isn't going to be traded. what we need to do is trade to add a star type player with JJ, not trade away the only player that a star would want to play with.

[parson]

The trade doesn't give you a stripped down roster that you can stockpile young players on. You're still cap strapped for 3 years and a few million in wiggle room isn't going to make that much of a difference to a perspective buyer.

Also don't count on buying out Gilbert Arenas. I think he realizes that he'll not get more than league minimum from here on out, so I don't see him giving up 4-5M in money.

I used so many words, yet you said it better.

[HoopsGuru25]

No. If the Hawks can't get an expiring....then they have to just keep Joe and hope he simply plays better to boost his value. Arenas is done.

[Ruhiel]

No. If the Hawks can't get an expiring....then they have to just keep Joe and hope he simply plays better to boost his value. Arenas is done.

+1

why are some of you all acting like the money Joe is getting is coming out of your pocket? Joe makes what he makes. get over it. he is certainly a better player than gilbert arenas, antawn jamison, and baron davis at this stage of their careers. just face it Joe isn't going to be traded. what we need to do is trade to add a star type player with JJ, not trade away the only player that a star would want to play with.

I agree myrak433 this is a horrible offseason trade proposal. He is certainly a better player than gilbert arenas.
The point is we are not trying to be the Wizards or the Cavaliers and with JJ's overvalued contract we can't address other positions.
If the Nuggets could replace Carmelo then we can easily replace Joe's scoring, his size at the off guard, and improve on his inconsistency with Marvin.
"what we need to do is trade to add a star type player with JJ, not trade away the only player that a star would want to play with."
it's been repeatedly said that CP3 and Dwight Howard want to play in Atlanta with Josh Smith. they're not big enough stars?

Joe for Arenas is a bad idea. But make no mistake Joe's contract is taking value away from a very important concept, winning. Complacency is not acceptable. And the fans pay for Joe's contract, so him not being able to perform at a high enogh level is not right, it is coming out of paying fans pockets. Hopefully Hawks can turn it on in the playoffs, but this small ball model needs to die. Go Hawks!

[Bucked19]

It seems like ya'll don't even look at his stats just his contract,lol at trading him for Jamison,Barron and some unknown.When he had the elbow injury he didn't complain or make excuses he just played.Give the man a break with all those injuries this year he's still averaging good numbers.

[Ruhiel]

It seems like ya'll don't even look at his stats just his contract,lol at trading him for Jamison,Barron and some unknown.When he had the elbow injury he didn't complain or make excuses he just played.Give the man a break with all those injuries this year he's still averaging good numbers.

#1 Go back and read No one asked to trade for Baron or Jamison. Myrak333 brought them up as other 30 year old players with bad contracts.
Good numbers compared to? Certainly not Horford or Smith who for the last 2 years have put up better advanced numbers than Joe. Joe is a jack of all trades role player who can use his size to shoot over other shooting guards and point guards. He has to work hard for his jumper while other teams just use a motion offense. It's a losing formula.

And ixnay to the OP unless Arenas starts putting up 30ppg and even then we'd still have a hole at center. Hawks need to divest salary. That money is Dwight Howard pay scale not Gilbert Arenas/Joe Johnson pay scale.