A future lotto Pick plus some

[Geaux_Hawks]

Just looking at the fact that Joe won't likely be moved and the need for some kind of cap space for a quality Center.

So we trade Al Horford. A most likely trade partner would be the Kings.

If the Kings would accept such a deal, would you do this:

Al Horford for '12 pick, Jason Thompson, Omri Casspi, and Hassan Whiteside

Now most are going to say why trade Horford. Well essentially by trading Horford and getting some fair value IMO that could allow us to dump Marvin, we would free up a pretty decent amount of cap space to offer Marc Gasol 4 years 36 mill at the least. So in the end it would all look like trading Horford and Marvin for Gasol, Casspi, Thompson, Whiteside, Lotto pick.

Looking at the guys we get in the Kings trade:

Jason Thompson is a quality first Big off the bench guy, who can play PF and C.

Omri Casspi provides a great 6th man with his perimeter shooting(Not exactly Crawford)

Hassan Whiteside is an offensively raw, shot blocker that is 7"0 235

The Lotto Pick could be any guy you want, but I prefer Perry Jones. Dude is a freakishly explosive athlete, that can handle like a 2 guard and is 6'11. Ambidextrous in driving with both hands well. Developing perimeter shot. Extremely quick and fast. Moves without the ball. Unlimited Rebounding and defensive skills. Think T Mac in Lamar Odoms body. Pretty much a potential #1 option impact player that would take pressure off Joe and make him the #2 guy he is built to be. I don't see why he is taking another year at Baylor.

2011-2012 line-up

Teague/Hinrich
Joe/Belinelli/Wilkins/Dunn
Marvin/Casspi/Rolle
Smith/Thompson/Rolle
Gasol/Thompson/Whiteside

Zaza for Cleveland 2nd and draft Lacedarius Dunn, then Nikola Mirotic to stash in Europe with our pick.

2012-2013 line-up

Paul/Teague
Joe/Belinelli/Dunn/Wilkins
Jones/Casspi/Rolle
Smith/Thompson/Rolle
Gasol/Whiteside/Thompson

Marvin to LAC for a future lottery protected first(being optimistic)
Become NBA champs.

That looks like a better built contender than having Horford and Marvin with no bench nor center.

[azuresou1]

Jason Thompson is a scrub who can't get PT on the Kings because he plays no defense and fouls like crazy.
Omri Casspi is a decent role player.
Hassan Whiteside screams "I'm a bust."
Perry Jones is going back to school, so pick someone else to draft and carry this franchise.

You also assume that we
A) Are able to move Marvin for seemingly a TPE, which is dubious.
B) Are able to sign Gasol for a low, moderate length contract, when it's more likely that he'll get 6/60 simple because there's a premium on Cs.
C) Assume for some reason that CP3 magically appears on our roster, despite us having NO CAPSPACE TO SIGN A MAX FA, even post-trade.

[parson]

I agree, azuresou1. It's trading something for nothing with the HOPE of getting something ... sometime.

But, hey!, if we trade Horford, we can stop talking about trading Smoove.

[Geaux_Hawks]

Well Azuresou you seem to assume alot yourself. How is Thompson garbage, but yet he plays behind Demarcus Cousins and Dalembert(A guy plenty of Hawks fan want to pursue). All I want from him, is to come off the bench anyway.

How does Whiteside scream "bust", when he lead the NCAA in blocks with 5.4 and was projected as a lottery pick. The only reason he didn't go in the first round is because he is so raw offensively.

I also stated the pick was for 2012, which would be a strong draft with so many going back and the up coming talent.

A.)For Marvin, we could always take back Gomes expiring deal.
B.)For Gasol I said the least would have been 4/36. I don't mind giving him 6/72 if it's needed.
C.)Hawks management say they will hit the tax for an obvious team upgrade. If Paul isn't an upgrade worth paying extra money for then it's time to grab some brown paper bags and punch holes in them.

And No, it isn't all about trading Horford just so we can stop talking about Josh. Hell, Josh was offered first.

[azuresou1]

Thompson is garbage, and people want Dalembert as a FA signing, NOT as someone we'd actually give assets for.

Athletic players with no tangible basketball skills or IQ are the most likely to bust. Dude produced 9 assists his whole college SEASON.

If we giftwrap the Kings Horford, then we're no longer looking at a top 5 pick, but rather a mid-lotto pick.

A) There is no deal on the table for a Marvin/Gomes trade, nor would the Clippers likely be interested, seeing as they just drafted Aminu.
B) Okay, sure, but then you have issue C...
C) If you pay Gasol 6/72, you cannot pay Chris Paul a max contract. It is not possible.

[Geaux_Hawks]

We will never come to a conclusion on Thompson, but oh well.

When do centers have to play like PG's and average 4 or 5 assist a game?!?! Whiteside's intangibles are good enough to make into a superb rebounder as he improves his technique, and a feared shot blocker/defensive thwart.On the offensive end, those same intangibles can make him into a great screener to become a P-n-R guy, who can get position in the low post. Isn't that all Hawks fans have been wanting from the 5 spot?!?! 5.8 PPG, 4 RPG, and 2.8 BPG with only 12 MPG sounds like a future stud.

Kings will still produce a top 10 pick, which could land a great player, even if it isn't Perry Jones.

A.) Clipper fans have already said Aminu isn't the guy they feel is the future SF. Marvin for Gomes and a future lottery protected pick is a decent deal.
C.) Chris Paul isn't going to demand someone to give him a 120 million dollar contract. He wants to be paid and win also so he isn't going to break a teams pockets.

[evildallas]

Better to stay where we are than give Al Horford away for cap room and odds and ends. If we were to trade Al Horford for crap it would be to get someone to take Joe Johnson's contract off our hands in the same deal so we could start over.

By the way for future depth charts, Magnum Rolle is not a SF. He's a 6'11 C/PF type.

[azuresou1]

Whiteside got 9 assists his entire college season. Let me reiterate, in an entire season, he got NINE. No idea where you're getting that 5.8 PPG/4 RPG/2.8 BPG stats either. He's played 2 total minutes in the NBA, posted no stats other than 2 PF. His D-League average: 4.4 PPG, 2.7 RPG, 2.1 BPG, 0.9 TOPG, 1.6 PF in 10.5 minutes. Through 14 games, he has 1 assist.

Udrih/Thornton/Tyreke/Horford/Cousins is good enough to make a pick around the 13-18 range.

A) Aminu not being the future SF =/= Marvin is the future. That'd be like Raptors fans saying that Teague isn't the future PG, so we should trade Hinrich and a first for Jose Calderon.
B) Using your hypothetical roster before signing Chris Paul, we're approximately at 61.5MM, and that's assuming we just sign the QO for Thompson. The NBA salary cap is currently 58MM, and unlikely to rise. It's not about Chris Paul signing for 120 million, it'd be about us already being over the cap and not being able to sign him because of Joe ****ing Johnson.

I also forgot to mention you assume Cleveland would give a 2nd for Zaza.

[Geaux_Hawks]

Those were some of his earlier D league stats, but still looking at his up to date stats, 4.4 PPG plus 2.1 blocks in 10 minutes is still decent for someone who is so raw offensively. If he gives you 25+ minutes, he is bound to be an Elite defensive Big. He got 29 minutes one game and put up 12 points,8 blocks, and 7 rebounds.

Help me understand what does 9 assists from a Center have to do with anything. When did big men having high assist numbers become such a major stat?!?! Are you trying to say he doesn't have good vision or is a black hole?!?!

"Udrih/Thornton/Tyreke/Horford/Cousins is good enough to make a pick around the 13-18 range."

If those 5 guys can produce a late lotto pick or become a playoff team in the west, then why are the Clippers not in the playoffs or their pick isn't a late lotto? You mean to tell me Baron Davis/Eric Gordon/Aminu/Griffin/Jordan couldn't make the playoffs or strong run for it?!?

So you don't think a team willing to go into the tax for a significant upgrade, wouldn't do it for Chris Paul?

[azuresou1]

Whiteside doesn't get minutes because he thinks blocks = defense, and fouls like crazy. Assists are not pivotal, but ONE assist in FOURTEEN GAMES. Are you ****ing kidding me? I defy you to find ANY player in the league with a worse ratio of assists:minutes played in the NBA, much less the D-League.

Clippers aren't in the playoffs because they had a sucktastic first few months before the Clippers realized Blake Griffin actually cared about winning.

I think you need to do some basic research of the CBA and what it entails before you make any more posts about the Hawks picking up CP3 or Dwight Howard.

[Geaux_Hawks]

I prefer to let this go. I never realized how important assist can be for a Center, especially when he only gets 10 MPG in 14 games. Oh yeah, go look at Deandre Jordan's numbers. Ryan Hollins got some nice ones as well. Omer Asik isn't all that bad either.Those just a few though.

So what makes you think LAC isn't better than that King's team with Horford?!?

[azuresou1]

DeAndre Jordan gets an assist every 50 minutes.
Ryan Hollins gets one every 46 minutes.
Omer Asik gets one every 32.5 minutes.
Hassan Whiteside gets an assist every 147 minutes, and we don't even know that for sure because he hasn't gotten a second one yet.

Ryan Hollins and Omer Asik are also total scrubs, and DeAndre Jordan is a promising big man because he actually plays great defense, unlike Whiteside.

Mo Williams > Udrih
Gordon = Tyreke
Aminu = Thornton
Griffin = Horford
Jordan <<< Cousins

[Geaux_Hawks]

WOW! that has got to be the most irrelevant made up stat of all time..Then you say Asik is a scrub. I doubt Chicago would value him that much, if he was just a scrub. Whiteside looks just as good as Jordan did about 2 years ago and even had better numbers in college. I don't care what you say I wouldn't mind having Whiteside. Dude is going to be a monster.

[HoopsGuru25]

Not that this has anything to do with the thread....but Asik isn't a scrub at all. He's actually a better defensive player than Noah.

[parson]

...Ryan Hollins and Omer Asik are also total scrubs, ...

I agree with most of what you're saying so I hate to disagree but I see a solid future Center when I look at Asik. He's like Zaza, only 2 inches taller with longer reach and better hops. Like Zaza, he hustles, rebounds, bangs and has good eye-hand coordination.

In 2 years, I see Asik starting for the Bulls, with Noah at PF and Boozer being traded for an SG. CHI got lucky with him.

I know I'm crazy but I'd seriously trade Joe for Asik/chips.

[Ruhiel]

...Ryan Hollins and Omer Asik are also total scrubs, ...

I agree with most of what you're saying so I hate to disagree but I see a solid future Center when I look at Asik. He's like Zaza, only 2 inches taller with longer reach and better hops. Like Zaza, he hustles, rebounds, bangs and has good eye-hand coordination.

In 2 years, I see Asik starting for the Bulls, with Noah at PF and Boozer being traded for an SG. CHI got lucky with him.

I know I'm crazy but I'd seriously trade Joe for Asik/chips.

I wouldn't prefer Joe to Bulls.
Joe is a serious upgrade from Bogans, a great 1B option. From the Hawks perspective I rather have Joe out West. Hawks had better be sure D12 is coming here because that would be immediately helping out a conference contender.