Instead of blaming Joe Johnson for everything

[Bucked19]

We should be blaming the new motion offense

Drew said under his guidance the Hawks would not rely so much on isolation plays. There would be less standing around watching Joe Johnson take on defenders. The Hawks would have balanced scoring.

They are sharing the ball, ranking fourth in the league in the percentage of field goals that are assisted. The Hawks were ranked 21st in that category last season.

But sharing the ball has not translated into offensive efficiency. The Hawks, last season, were the third-most efficient offensive team in the NBA; they ranked 21st in points scored per possession entering Sunday. The Hawks points per game has declined to 95.2 (26th) from 101.7 last season (ranked 13th).

High-scoring guards Joe Johnson and Jamal Crawford have seen their production decline. Atlanta's best big men, Al Horford and Josh Smith, have moved their games away from the basket and left the team short on post scoring and offensive rebounding.

Drew's offense was supposed to take the offensive burden off Johnson, who has faded in the last two postseasons. But both Johnson and Crawford have expressed uncertainty about the new approach.
http://www.ajc.com/sports/atlanta-hawks/hawks-pass-more-but-905327.html

[Ruhiel]

We moved away from iso-Joe because Joe Johnson has proven he cannot carry the Bibby-Johnson-Williams-Smith-Horford lineup. Thus we fired Woodson, that wasn't enough. Then we traded Bibby for Hinrich. That wasn't enough.
Taking the ball out of Joe's hands the options are now Hinrich at the 1. Williams who like Joe plays small as a 3 and so plays far from the basket. Josh Smith at the 4, who is undersized a lot of times at the 4 so he plays farther away from the basket. And Horford who is undersized a lot of times at the 4 so he plays farther away from the basket.
We really don't have someone who will come down and post up time after time and demand a double team. If Josh draws double in the post he can see and pass over the D. Joe can do this a little bit. But we are undersized, stretch the floor team.

Joe Johnson: "We All Are Jump Shooters"
http://www.peachtreehoops.com/2011/3/10 ... p-shooters
According to Hoop Data, Atlanta attempts the fourth fewest shots at the rim in the league. Next to Dallas (Nowitzki and small guards) and Miami (drive and kick to Bosh). No jump shot happy team has ever won anything, even the Bulls went into Jordan at the post.
Atlanta is still a talented team but around the east you need a PG or an advantage on the boards.
Assuming we play big (Jason Collins) lineup, the refs are going to look to put one of our key frontcourt players in foul trouble, either the 3,4, or Twin at the 5.

As of now Hawks are committed to Joe Johnson. I could see the Hawks beating Orlando and the Celtics, the Bulls? maybe but we will have to do it without Crawford and maybe Josh Smith.
As of the small ball roster The only person consistently generating offense (turnovers, steals, blocks, intimidate shots) is Josh Smith and he is slowing down and on a balky knee.
After getting swept by the largest playoff defeat margin in history with the Iso-Joe Hawks made a change. Drew may not be the answer but neither is firing Drew just to go back to Iso-Joe full-time. It would be to easy to scapegoat the first year coach and would be another sign for management's complacency. We need more pieces to stop relying on Josh so much for interior Defence.

[draycon530]

It's hard for me to blame the motion offense when so little of it actually ever gets played. We may do it for one or two plays out of timeouts, breaks, etc., but once the game gets going, we revert back to what we used to do. Joe's lack of production has very little to do with the offense. He just isn't making the same shots that he has the last couple of years. He'll miss wide open jumpers, and even when he does iso (which is still quite a bit) he can't get anything done. I refuse to put the blame on Larry Drew. He was put into a situation where he had no chance to succeed. Nobody listens to him, because they are too comfortable with him. I put some of the blame on the players (ALL of the starters + Jamal Crawford anyways, since they're the only ones who know what type of playing time they'll get from day to day). Their lack of energy when something doesn't go their way can be astounding at times. Other than that, the bulk of the blame is on Atlanta Spirit Group. They signed Joe to the ridiculous contract, they re-signed Jason Collins and said that was a good enough big man, and they tried to spend as little money on a coach as they possibly could. There was no way the Hawks could succeed in that situation.

[azuresou1]

Can everyone stop pretending we run a motion offense? We ran it for the three weeks of the season, and smoked people, and then we reverted to iso-ball and the same 'offense' we've had under Woodson.

[parson]

Remember that Woodson, officially, ran a motion offense, as well. He believed that isos were the way to go when things got tough. Drew is the same in both opinions, only he tries to do less iso. Offensively, they're the same animal. Sure, Drew's motion offense has a different choreography from Woodson's but they both were motion offenses.

The differences are on defense.

[evildallas]

So things are tough whenever Joe or Jamal wants?

I don't think we truly run the motion offense, but I don't really blame Joe. I blame our gutless coach not getting complete buy-in and then allowing the players to deviate too quickly. I don't pine for Woodson either as he was an enabler as well, just not with as many players as Drew. Truthfully Woodson should have been replaced when his first contract was up to get a different voice in the players ears, but we had gotten to the playoffs so he was retained and Knight let go (part of thinks he should have been shot not just fired). Drew was a different voice, but he'd been around for years so it wasn't different enough. We are seeing the results of too many years of poor supervision. Ragged, undisciplined, and inconsistent effort like the Dallas Cowboys under Wade Phillips.

[parson]

So things are tough whenever Joe or Jamal wants?

I think that's the problem. Both coaches began with visions of swirling offensive movement but, the longer they coached, the more "tough times" seemed to appear. When you're playing for your job and not for the team's growth, every minute seems dire.

[parson]

Ya know, Stephen Covey talks about "sharpening the saw" meaning taking care to do the acts of everyday preparation that, if faithfully done, keep us from the urgent emergencies. Woodson and Drew should read his books.

[Harry10]

i do blame Joe, and not for his contract, but for his low basketball IQ.

Gary Payton was not a great athlete, but he knew how important it was to get the post players involved, and he would constantly force passes into the post, because he knew how an effective post game could wear down another team

Paul Pierce is also not a great athlete, but he is great at playing off the ball.

if Joe had a better basketball IQ, he would make an effort to make an entry pass into the post for Josh and Horford, and learn how to score and contribute, without dominating the ball

[parson]

I think it's his vision. Joe understands basketball ok and he's a great passer but, when he's dribbling, he can never see past the doubleteam. I believe he dribbles with his head down.

[parson]

Gary Payton was not a great athlete, but...

Just noticed this. Maybe you never saw "The Glove" when he was in his prime. The man was an elite athlete.

[Harry10]

Gary Payton was not a great athlete, but...

Just noticed this. Maybe you never saw "The Glove" when he was in his prime. The man was an elite athlete.

he was not Wade, Marbury, Penny, or Francis..... more like Dumars or Billups. he was very decent, same way Kidd is decent, but even prime, i wouldn't say "elite"

[Ruhiel]

i do blame Joe, and not for his contract, but for his low basketball IQ.

Gary Payton was not a great athlete, but he knew how important it was to get the post players involved, and he would constantly force passes into the post, because he knew how an effective post game could wear down another team

Paul Pierce is also not a great athlete, but he is great at playing off the ball.

if Joe had a better basketball IQ, he would make an effort to make an entry pass into the post for Josh and Horford, and learn how to score and contribute, without dominating the ball

Josh and Horford rarely have the size advantage in the post. Horford moreso than Josh but I've noticed that when Josh draws doubles, Joe is less automatic than one would like.
But versus ORL we will play the "big" lineup (can't believe that ATL's best defensive center is Jason Collins), so we will presumably get more post opportunities.
It's like Joe takes those shots for granted cuz he knows he's gonna get more chances on his iso touches.
Regardless if Atlanta is one and done, I think Josh should lose the weight. Look at Vince Carter then look at Kobe, the team needs to prolong their players careers and that means getting another big!

[parson]

Gary Payton was not a great athlete, but...

Just noticed this. Maybe you never saw "The Glove" when he was in his prime. The man was an elite athlete.

he was not Wade, Marbury, Penny, or Francis..... more like Dumars or Billups. he was very decent, same way Kidd is decent, but even prime, i wouldn't say "elite"

How old are you, Harry? At his best, Gary Payton was the single greatest PG defender in the NBA. I can't think of a better defender. He literally smothered other PGs. He was faster, quicker, stronger and more agile than any other PG in pro ball. Again, he was called "The Glove" because he covered his man like one.

No, he didn't jump like Wade but he was a better athlete than any of the other names you listed. Marbury? Penny?

[Geaux_Hawks]

I watched Gary play with the Sonics, back when Shawn Kemp,Schrempf, and Vin Baker played, and he was not the athlete of Marbury and Francis. Top 10 PG of all time? Yes! of course.

[myrak433]

i do blame Joe, and not for his contract, but for his low basketball IQ.

Gary Payton was not a great athlete, but he knew how important it was to get the post players involved, and he would constantly force passes into the post, because he knew how an effective post game could wear down another team

Paul Pierce is also not a great athlete, but he is great at playing off the ball.

if Joe had a better basketball IQ, he would make an effort to make an entry pass into the post for Josh and Horford, and learn how to score and contribute, without dominating the ball

I was about to blast you on this statement, saying JJ has a low basketball IQ. but when I read the rest of your post I get your point. He should make more of an effort to get the ball down low to Al and Josh...... but they are never in the paint. so I guess he should throw it in there to ZaZa..... wait he doesn't really play in the paint either with good position.

[azuresou1]

When people don't pass you the ball when you get position, you tend to stop fighting for position. Ever wonder why few guys in pickup games ever play down low in the post? Because unless they're 6'5 or so, no one ever gives them an entry pass.

[Harry10]

i do blame Joe, and not for his contract, but for his low basketball IQ.

Gary Payton was not a great athlete, but he knew how important it was to get the post players involved, and he would constantly force passes into the post, because he knew how an effective post game could wear down another team

Paul Pierce is also not a great athlete, but he is great at playing off the ball.

if Joe had a better basketball IQ, he would make an effort to make an entry pass into the post for Josh and Horford, and learn how to score and contribute, without dominating the ball

I was about to blast you on this statement, saying JJ has a low basketball IQ. but when I read the rest of your post I get your point. He should make more of an effort to get the ball down low to Al and Josh...... but they are never in the paint. so I guess he should throw it in there to ZaZa..... wait he doesn't really play in the paint either with good position.

Joe had an okay game, but i also want to add that i think Joe has a low basketball IQ, because he tries to be something he is not. when Joe goes into his iso moves and starts dribbling between his legs and stuff, it is like he is pretending that he Iverson, or Rose, or Vince, but he is not, he is not going to blow by anybody or jump over somebody. he should stop pretending he is Iverson, and he should start pretending he is some one like Bonzi Wells, or Steve Smith, or even old Jordan, which is a SG who can post guys up.

Joe is not a super athlete, or even an above average athlete, but he is 6'8, and pure muscle. i remember Smitty putting up 40pts on Jeff Hornacek, and he did it all by posting him up all game long. Joe has Redick and JRich on him, he should recognize those match ups and post those guys up all game long. if Joe had a high basketball IQ, he would fight for position and get the ball on the low post, just like what old Jordan use to do, instead of always getting it on the perimeter, where Joe can't use his size and strength advantage on smaller SGs

[FCNATL85]

Trade him now while his value is high!

[myrak433]

i do blame Joe, and not for his contract, but for his low basketball IQ.

Gary Payton was not a great athlete, but he knew how important it was to get the post players involved, and he would constantly force passes into the post, because he knew how an effective post game could wear down another team

Paul Pierce is also not a great athlete, but he is great at playing off the ball.

if Joe had a better basketball IQ, he would make an effort to make an entry pass into the post for Josh and Horford, and learn how to score and contribute, without dominating the ball

I was about to blast you on this statement, saying JJ has a low basketball IQ. but when I read the rest of your post I get your point. He should make more of an effort to get the ball down low to Al and Josh...... but they are never in the paint. so I guess he should throw it in there to ZaZa..... wait he doesn't really play in the paint either with good position.

Joe had an okay game, but i also want to add that i think Joe has a low basketball IQ, because he tries to be something he is not. when Joe goes into his iso moves and starts dribbling between his legs and stuff, it is like he is pretending that he Iverson, or Rose, or Vince, but he is not, he is not going to blow by anybody or jump over somebody. he should stop pretending he is Iverson, and he should start pretending he is some one like Bonzi Wells, or Steve Smith, or even old Jordan, which is a SG who can post guys up.

Joe is not a super athlete, or even an above average athlete, but he is 6'8, and pure muscle. i remember Smitty putting up 40pts on Jeff Hornacek, and he did it all by posting him up all game long. Joe has Redick and JRich on him, he should recognize those match ups and post those guys up all game long. if Joe had a high basketball IQ, he would fight for position and get the ball on the low post, just like what old Jordan use to do, instead of always getting it on the perimeter, where Joe can't use his size and strength advantage on smaller SGs

well first of all Bonzi Wells could get to the rim. but as far as JJ goes, I believe Drew has something to o with Joe always getting the ball perimeter.