To be a good team you have to draft well

[MarJJMar]

For this purpose I will count players that were traded before the end of their rookie season just like draft picks but I will put that number in brackets.

I will not count players that were drafted by the team but traded and later acquired through free agency.

I will only count players that average more than 10 minutes per game and I will not count players that might have averaged 10 minutes per game but only played every 4th game (eg James Anderson - Spurs, Zabian Dowdell - Suns)

Chicago - 5
Franchise Player - Derrick Rose
Stars Drafted - Luol Deng, Joakim Noah
Role Players - Taj Gibson, Omer Asik

San Antonio - 7
Franchise Player - Tim Duncan
Stars - Tony Parker, Manu Ginobili
Role Players - George Hill, Dajuan Blair, Gary Neal, Tiago Splitter

Miami Heat - 4
Franchise Player - Dwyane Wade
Stars Drafted - None
Role Players - Udonis Haslem, Mario Chalmers, Joel Anthony

Los Angeles Lakers - 2
Franchise Player - Kobe Bryant
Stars - Andrew Bynum

Dallas Mavericks - 3
Franchise Player - Dirk Nowitzki
Stars - None
Role Players - JJ Barea, Rodrigue Beaubois

Boston Celtics - 3
Franchise Player - Paul Pierce
Stars - Rajon Rondo
Role Players - Glen Davis (+Kendrick Perkins for part of the season)

Oklahoma Thunder - 6
Franchise Player - Kevin Durant
Stars - Russell Westbrook
Role Players - James Harden, Serge Ibaka, Nick Collison, Eric Maynor (+ Jeff Green for part of the season)

Orlando Magic - 3
Franchise Player - Dwight Howard
Stars - Jameer Nelson
Role Players - JJ Redick (+Marcin Gortat for part of the season)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Summary of the top 8
Franchise Players Drafted - 8 Average 1
Stars Drafted - 8 Average 1
Role Players Drafted - 18 Average 2.25

Not to mention that many teams drafted many more quality players that they used as assets Boston was the most active doing that (Jeff Green, Kendrick Perkins, Al Jefferson, Devin Harris, Josh Howard)


............

I will add more but it is tedious work but here are your Phoenix Suns in comparison.

Phoenix Suns - 1
Franchise Players - None
Stars - None
Role Players - Robin Lopez (+Goran Dragic for part of the season)

The way things are going it is possible the Suns counter might say 0 for next season. They would only have to do one of the stupid trades people are suggesting like Lopez, Pietrus and our lottery pick for Paul Millsap and there you go..

When the Suns were at their best.. 62-20

2004-2005 Phoenix Suns - 5
Franchise Players - Amare Stoudemire
Stars - Joe Johnson, Shawn Marion
Role Players - Leandro Barbosa, Casey Jacobsen

Whoever says the draft is not the way to build your team is just out of touch with reality. Even the argument that the Suns have been bad at drafting the last 5 years really is not an argument because if they want to get better again they simply need to get better at drafting. We used to be one of the best teams in the draft but now we are one of the worst teams. What is the reason for this? Could be attributed to Rex Chapman leaving the scouting department and working for Denver now I think?
Or did Sarver cut the scouting budget?

[JasonDaPsycho]

The Lakers are debatable. Andrew Bynum was in a perfect situation.

I still agree with you nonetheless.

[sunskerr]

The Lakers drafted Derek Fisher with the 24th pick in the 1996 NBA draft.

[DRK]

The Hornets drafted Kobe, who was later traded for Divac.

[Miklo]

Interesting stuff, thanks for pulling it all together. It's largely true, even going back to some of the more successful teams in history.

There are always exceptions, but it does show the importance of the draft.

This new trend of superstar movement will put the theory to the test. For example the Knicks - if they turn out to be a successful team it won't really be based on players they drafted. I know you have Miami up there but arguably their level can't be attributed to their drafting as much as basically the rest of your teams up there. I just think when you bring in LeBron and Bosh that's "cheating" as far as getting credit for drafting a contending roster. Their title team in 06 would count in my book, since their drafted superstar Wade totally carried that team.

[Miklo]

The Hornets drafted Kobe, who was later traded for Divac.

I thought twice about some of the ones like that too, but I mean Kobe played his first NBA game in LA...I'd count it as drafting the player if you give up resources to snag a drafted player - it's still your prospect scouting involved. I guess it's just the concept of securing talent through the NBA draft, even if not technically making the selection - teams make picks for each other all the time.

[Qwigglez]

We should have kept Earl Clark! He's going to be a stud.

[Cutter]

MarJJMar great post! I have been meaning to post something like this but you did a much better job than I would have done.

As you stated, this current Suns "era" that came to an ugly end this year (the SSOL era) was mostly built through the draft.

Shawn Marion drafed in 1999
Joe Johnson drafted 2001 by Celtics (but traded middle of his rookie year to the Suns)
Amare drafted in 2002

The young athletic core of the future system referred to as SSOL took 3 years to assemble. It finally came to fruition in 2005 when the Suns traded for Steve Nash. From 1999 (Marion drafted) to 2005 (Nash back to Suns) was a 6 year time span. That's how long it can take to assemble an elite team.

Again, great post !:clap:

[DirtyDez]

That's crazy only 2 players on this team were drafted. We had the ability too draft some talent with sold or traded picks (Iggy, Rondo, Rudy, Deng etc) but ownership wasn't committed and our coach was stubborn as a mule.

[DBrimstone]

You're totally right. Even if you don't keep them, those players next you your star players. Al Jefferson for KG and Jeff Green for Ray Allen, or Jeff Hornacek for Barkley. Drafting well means you have good players, good trade assets, and a good flow of talent.

[Revived]

Lol MarJJMar you just copied that entire post from here:

http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/sho ... ostcount=1

Are you slinslin?

[lilfishi22]

Lol MarJJMar you just copied that entire post from here:

http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/sho ... ostcount=1

Are you slinslin?

Most likely. Same avy

[RunDogGun]

Meh, many of those teams were lucky enough to have the first pick in the draft, or what should have been the first pick (KD). Please tell me when the Suns got the first pick in a draft. It isn't hard to figure out, that would be NEVER! Kobe wasn't their pick, but if they did not steal Gasol from the Grizz, they wouldn't have won squat, recently. Dent wasn't the Bulls pick, it was ours, and they had to suck for a long time to get both Noah and Rose. Spurs tanked a whole season to get Duncan, but their scouts did a great job finding other guys. I guess it isnt hard to get guys to come to your team, if Stern already promises a chip in the odd years. They did however give up Scola for a bag of chips, so everyone can screw things up from time to time. Luck has more to do with draft picking then anything else.

Oh, and how the f*ck isn't Nash considered a franchise player( we did draft him)? So two time MVPs are just chop liver? Meh at this whole thread, just another Nash hater!

What really sucks is all of the guys that were our picks: Rondo, Deng, D Blair, Gortat, and Ibaka.

Plus Berea and Neal signed as free agents not drafted by those teams, and Maynor was drafted by Utah. Maybe you should do more research.

[MarJJMar]

You need to learn how to read before you make a (Please Use More Appropriate Word) rant like that without understanding anything

[RunDogGun]

I read it, but just because you chose not to include Nash (because you are a Nash hater), doesn't make it my fault. So are you saying that Barea, and Neal were drafted by Dallas and Spurs respectfully? You'd be wrong. And OKC did not draft Maynor. So if you going to make a thread about success of a team correlating with drafting well, but not include Nash for the Suns, who did draft him not for another team, I say this whole thread is a failure. But way to spend a bunch of time on it.

How about: "To be a good team, you have to be lucky enough to get a number one or two pick to build your team around.". Or maybe already have a number one pick, tank, and get another number one pick. Or how about, have Stern pick your team as one of the teams that will usually have a chance to be in the finals. Or better yet, "To be a good team, you have to royally suck for a while, get high draft picks, and then get lucky in your choices.". Come on man, I have seen third grade papers with more depth and research.

[MarJJMar]

Please learn to read.

[RunDogGun]

Awe heck, let's shoot holes in this whole thread.

Bulls? Really? They found a moronic trade partner in us, sucked so bad that they got a number one pick, and sucked almost as bad to get Noah. Their only real find was Gibson. So if you were staying true to your title, that would be one.

SA would be the only team on this list that drafts well, but they completely tanked to get Duncan, and they already had Robinson (another number one) that helped them get where they are. Again they found a moronic trading partner (us again) to get Blair. So their big finds would be Gino and Parker. Hill wa a good find as well, but the jury is still out on him.

Miami? Again, really? They sucked greatly to get Wade, and without Shaq, they wouldn't even be in the conversation, but yet again, they are relevant because of free agent signings, not drafting. Joel Anthony? Are you serious?

The f*cking Lakers? Please stop, my sides are hurting now. They found a moronic trading partner (thank god for once it wasn't us) and got Kobe for Vladi (bet they are still kicking themselves over that one) and sucked royally to land Bynum. And Bynum plays like six games a year now? Heck, if they hadn't bought the first NBA dynasty (Minny Lakers) they would have never acquired Magic(number one pick acquired through trade), Worthy(number one pick acquired through trade), and a bunch of other [size=85][/size]guys that went on to be stars.

Dallas built their team off trades not from drafting. I am going to bet that you didn't know Dirk was drafted by Mil. And as I already pointed out JJ was not drafted, so he has nothing to do with your title.

Boston? Drafted well? So how did Rondo, Pierce, and Perk do before KG and Ray came to town? They were so busy trying to tank to get Oden, it wasn't even funny. And Stern stepped in and said that he didn't like teams tanking to get number one picks, and saddled them with the fifth pick. Oh and finding the only team that is dumb enough to trade away good first round picks, doesn't make them good drafters.

OKC is almost as good as SA, so maybe on a list of two teams that actually fit your title, but let's look at them anyway. They completely luck out, that Portland screwed up and took Oden. Then they find Boston for Green, suck horribly to get Westbrook and Harden, and find the only team dumb enough to trade a good center along with two unprotected firsts to get Ibaka. I guess Collison was a good find, but didn't they suck terribly to get him as well?

ORL? Again sucked to get one of the best players in that draft. Nelson, meh, ok, not great. I do like JJ, but what has he really done?

So there it is in a nutshell. Have fun with that rant.

[MarJJMar]

You are really (Please Use More Appropriate Word), it is pointless to argue with you if you don't even understand the original post or want to argue that the Lakers didn't "draft" Kobe.

How did Boston get Garnett ? They traded Al Jefferson who they drafted.

[RunDogGun]

But you aren't arguing. Your just saying I can't read. That isn't an argument, that is a cop out. Your title says, "to be a good team, you have to draft well.". Which isn't true at all. You could be a good team because you sucked before, and lucked out at getting a HOF number one pick. There are a ton of different ways as well. Why can't you include Nash? Didn't we draft him? We also drafted Marion and Amare? So in a way, you can draft well, and still be a bad team, look at the Clips. They have had some great high picks that have done great things in this league, yet the Clips aren't a great team. Luck has so much more to do with the draft.

So again, are you saying that JJ and Neal were drafted? Let's hear your side of that one. Dude if you are going to start a thread, at least do some research, and don't blame me for your terrible job.

[RunDogGun]

Waiting for an actual intelligent argument. And I still want to know why it is my fault that you made a poorly researched thread. I guess the third grade paper was a bit harsh, but I truly have seen some better researched papers by third graders (teacher). I could maybe get you their email addresses so they can help you next time if you like. They are much older now, but that may even be more helpful for you.