Draft Talk

kellmellus50 · Post #381 » by **kellmellus50** » Mon Apr 11, 2011 12:17 pm

The last time the lions traded in the first round with mixed results:

Detroit Lions (from Cleveland) - WR Roy Williams- Texas
The Lions traded with the Browns to drop one spot. By making this move, the Lions forfeit their chance at Winslow and instead take Williams. For their troubles, they also get the Browns second round pick and with Williams they now have an outstanding receiver to team with Charles Rogers. This gives the Lions one of the best young receiving duos in the NFL.

cochiseuofm · Post #382 » by **cochiseuofm** » Mon Apr 11, 2011 9:56 pm

kellmellus50 wrote:The last time the lions traded in the first round with mixed results:

Detroit Lions (from Cleveland) - WR Roy Williams- Texas
The Lions traded with the Browns to drop one spot. By making this move, the Lions forfeit their chance at Winslow and instead take Williams. For their troubles, they also get the Browns second round pick and with Williams they now have an outstanding receiver to team with Charles Rogers. This gives the Lions one of the best young receiving duos in the NFL.

I wouldn't call that a mixed results trade, that was a great trade for the Lions. If someone offers you a high second round pick to move down one spot in the first round, you do it unless there is a can't miss franchise player there without blinking. And Winslow was never that. You have to seperate the draft results, which still are in favor towards Detroit IMO, from the actual trade.

Just to give you an idea of the value we got, I'll point to the NFL draft pick value board (which even though I don't fully believe in, has its merits.) We traded the 6th pick - 1600 points for the 7th pick - 1500 points and the 37th pick - 530 points. So by the chart, we won the trade big, 2030 points to 1600 points. You almost never see trades that are that out of balance. It means the Browns really loved Winslow at the time.

And ajax, yes I agree with your post. I have zero interest in JJ, but if there is that kind of interest in him than using our pick to trade down makes sense.

kellmellus50 · Post #383 » by **kellmellus50** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 11:32 am

cochiseuofm wrote:
kellmellus50 wrote:The last time the lions traded in the first round with mixed results:

Detroit Lions (from Cleveland) - WR Roy Williams- Texas
The Lions traded with the Browns to drop one spot. By making this move, the Lions forfeit their chance at Winslow and instead take Williams. For their troubles, they also get the Browns second round pick and with Williams they now have an outstanding receiver to team with Charles Rogers. This gives the Lions one of the best young receiving duos in the NFL.

I wouldn't call that a mixed results trade, that was a great trade for the Lions. If someone offers you a high second round pick to move down one spot in the first round, you do it unless there is a can't miss franchise player there without blinking. And Winslow was never that. You have to seperate the draft results, which still are in favor towards Detroit IMO, from the actual trade.

Just to give you an idea of the value we got, I'll point to the NFL draft pick value board (which even though I don't fully believe in, has its merits.) We traded the 6th pick - 1600 points for the 7th pick - 1500 points and the 37th pick - 530 points. So by the chart, we won the trade big, 2030 points to 1600 points. You almost never see trades that are that out of balance. It means the Browns really loved Winslow at the time.

And ajax, yes I agree with your post. I have zero interest in JJ, but if there is that kind of interest in him than using our pick to trade down makes sense.

Charles Rodgers was not a great trade by the lions thats why it was mixed.

does anyone else think it was a great trade by the lions to get charles rodgers cochiseuofm thinks it was (go figure?)

Post #384 » by **Icness** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 1:44 pm

The Lions never traded to get Rogers, he was their own pick. They traded to add Roy Williams to pair with him. Cleveland got about 12 great games from K2 in 4 seasons, Detroit got a whole lot more than that from Roy Williams in sum. Probably Matt Millen's best move. Aww heck, no probably about it, it was the high point of his tenure.

Regarding Harris/Prince:
I don't know if they are smokescreening with Harris or not, tough to tell. I do know that some people with influence in the draft-making process are not big Prince fans, and I know some are indeed high on Harris. Personally I greatly prefer Jimmy Smith to both but I do believe he's not an option.

#13 is an interesting spot. Depending on how the QBs fall, it's sort of the line of delineation between the top tier prospects and the second tier. If Locker slides in above them and a couple of teams get antsy and go OL, the defensive draft board at #13 will still look very nice and Aldon Smith and/or Liuget will be around. That makes for appetizing trade bait. I don't see any market for another team to move up unless one of those two is still there, or maybe Prince because the Rams are (allegedly) strongly interested in him and a team would have to move ahead of them to get him.

My somewhat educated opinion is that the DaQuan Bowers talk is a lot of smoke from a very small fire.

cochiseuofm · Post #385 » by **cochiseuofm** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 10:15 pm

Charles Rodgers was not a great trade by the lions thats why it was mixed.

does anyone else think it was a great trade by the lions to get charles rodgers cochiseuofm thinks it was (go figure?)

I'm sorry that you couldn't find an article to tell you that we traded down for Roy Williams, not Charles Rogers (not related to Aaron Rodgers either by blood or last name, go figure).

And thanks for completely missing the point of my post to begin with, which was that the trade value-wise was great for Detroit. Whether they used the picks correctly or not wasn't important which was why I didn't bother listing who they took. But maybe I should have since apparently I'm susceptible to taking attacks because of other people's own lack of knowledge (go figure?)

kellmellus50 · Post #386 » by **kellmellus50** » Sat Apr 16, 2011 12:40 pm

Let's get back to the 2011 draft.

WR Julio Jones. Alabama, 2011 Scouting Report

http://draftdebacled.com/JoeyPotter/Joe ... px?id=2203

TSE · Post #387 » by **TSE** » Sat Apr 16, 2011 3:37 pm

I'm not reading any of that. It will just make me feel bad when we don't get to select him. WIth no top-10 RBs or TEs, plus a max of 1 OT which also doesn't help for teams considering improving their offensive as a whole, and enough teams present that need a WR, I just don't see how he's going to fall to us.

kellmellus50 · Post #388 » by **kellmellus50** » Sun Apr 17, 2011 11:24 am

TSE Quote :I just don't see how he's going to fall to us. I am seeing that too he is too good to be there at 13 that would be a shock.
They do have JJ at 14 ? http://football.about.com/od/nfldraft/a ... oppros.htm

i would trade our first pick to tampa bay for: Legarrete Blount 200 carries 1,000 yards 5yd avg

Do you think RB Mark Ingram would be a good pick at 13 he should be there?

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/pr ... rId=379061

TSE · Post #389 » by **TSE** » Mon Apr 18, 2011 1:28 am

Ingram's stock seems to be falling and a lot of experts have Leshoure going ahead of him now and some think Ingram might fall out of Rd 1 even. I think there are a ton of sleeper RBs in this draft, and so I would probably wait til the 4th-5th round, just cause I think the 2nd and 3rd round are going to be very lucky for us on talent that falls there. I don't know if we are going to be able to find a big RB, but that's ok, I still like guys like Noel Devine because he's arguably the fastest RB in the draft, but I'm really high on Taiwan Jones. Look up some tape on that guy if you got some time, he looks like a serious threat. 7.5 and 7.9 YPC last 2 years, cause he frequently has long runs cause nobody at his level could touch his speed/agility.

The way I see it, is our first pick is most likely going to force us to take a DE, just cause I'm expecting the top 12 players to be just about as bad as possible for us, so it likely will come down to a choice between OT Castonzo or BPA DE, which I prefer Bowers or Kerrigan. The 2nd and 3rd pick I think will be a pair of LBs, or a LB and either a nice WR that falls to us or possibly somebody like OT Derrick Sherrod who I like if we makes it to Round 2. But I am thinking maybe something like Bruce Carter and Mason Foster as a pair of LBs would be really nice to add in with that first round DE to really build up our front 7. Also Moch and Herzlich are interesting possibles, so whichever of those 4 drop we should have some shot at a pair of them.

Then our last 4 picks I would think something like 2 RBs and 1 FB and 1 WR to give us a handful of prospects to fill out all of our offensive positions minus the OL which I'm budgeting our 1st pick next year on an OT. I have my eye on Matt Kalil from USC who is the reason why Tyron Smith had to play RT. But there should be much better depth at OT next year than this year that's why I want to shy away from the Castonzo choice.

And so this draft plan gives us 4 low investment but nice depth adds at all those remaining offensive positions, with the 3 stud picks to bolster the front 7, and our only FA targets are to re-sign Houston and grab one of the solid half dozen or so CBs that are on the FA market, but my preference is to swith Houston for a second one of those guys and put all of our FA eggs into a pair of new CBs. I wouldn't draft any CB with any pick this year, this is a terrible year to do that, and a great year to sign FAs there.

But of course my top preference would be to clean house and trade like 2 dozen or more players to consolidate our picks and move up in the draft and acquire future picks. That's why last year I wanted Blount and to not only not draft Jahvid Best, but to clean out our whole RB group. My team last year would have saved that 1st rounder and traded Best to somebody else and went with Blount/Woodhead, and whoever the next best FA RB that I liked who I forget now offhand who was my fav. Then we wouldn't have used that 1st rounder on a RB, or 2 picks this year, instead we would have spent ZERO picks and had possibly 3 good RBs for the future. But the Lions don't know how to think strategically and logically in order to save picks and steal roster fills like I do, that's why I'm upset every year cause I don't understand what the hell they are talking about all day that they can't figure this simple stuff out.

kellmellus50 · Post #390 » by **kellmellus50** » Tue Apr 19, 2011 9:26 pm

USC's Allen Bradford visits Lions, wants to complement Jahvid Best
The 6-foot, 235-pound Bradford rushed for 1,462 yards with 13 touchdowns and averaged 6.5 yards per carry the last two seasons. His size and strength could complement the speedy Jahvid Best.

From The Detroit News: http://detnews.com/article/20110419/SPO ... 190421/USC’s-Allen-Bradford-visits-Lions--wants-to-complement-Jahvid-Best#ixzz1K0U3En2E

Post #391 » by **Icness** » Wed Apr 20, 2011 12:37 am

kellmellus50 wrote:USC's Allen Bradford visits Lions, wants to complement Jahvid Best
The 6-foot, 235-pound Bradford rushed for 1,462 yards with 13 touchdowns and averaged 6.5 yards per carry the last two seasons. His size and strength could complement the speedy Jahvid Best.

From The Detroit News: http://detnews.com/article/20110419/SPO ... 190421/USC’s-Allen-Bradford-visits-Lions--wants-to-complement-Jahvid-Best#ixzz1K0U3En2E

Good God I hope not. Slow, thick guy with little wiggle that thinks he's a scat back, but he can't catch, can't stay healthy, and has fumbling issues. I'd rather let Jerome Felton get those 5-8 carries a game.

If you want some capable late-round power backs:
Graig Cooper, Miami FL--more of a hybrid FB/RB that does neither exceptionally well
Jamie Harper, Clemson, though he's probably a 4th rounder at this point
Shaun Droughn, UNC--slow (4.7ish) thumper but a bull to tackle and he can catch
Darren Evans, VT--I've always liked him but the coaches there were always trying to put someone else ahead of him
and going real deep:
Isaac Odim, Minnesota-Duluth--fantastic D-II back but blew out his knee in October
Jamal Sullivan, James Madison--think a shorter Rashard Mendenhall. He tore up Virginia Tech in the upset. Not really a powr back per se but a deep sleeper that IMO deserves a shot

kellmellus50 · Post #392 » by **kellmellus50** » Wed Apr 20, 2011 1:32 am

Quote by icness (Slow, thick guy with little wiggle ) Are you kidding me!!! he gets 6.5 yards per carry for 2 seasons and you think thats slow with little wiggle ,Go smoke another joint !!!

Bartender · Post #393 » by **Bartender** » Wed Apr 20, 2011 2:16 am

Iceness, what do you think of Mario Fannin? 5-10, 230 pounds, and a 4.38 forty. You know much about him?

Post #394 » by **Icness** » Wed Apr 20, 2011 5:06 pm

kellmellus50 wrote:Quote by icness (Slow, thick guy with little wiggle ) Are you kidding me!!! he gets 6.5 yards per carry for 2 seasons and you think thats slow with little wiggle ,Go smoke another joint !!!

I don't do drugs, sorry.
He ran behind four future NFL linemen in a conference with defenses that make Michigan's look just fine, playing with two top 5 overall QBs and a gaggle of NFL draftees at wide receiver. Numbers without context are like answers with no questions. If he went to Northwestern or Virginia he wouldn't even be a draft afterthought.

Post #395 » by **Icness** » Wed Apr 20, 2011 5:11 pm

Bartender wrote:Iceness, what do you think of Mario Fannin? 5-10, 230 pounds, and a 4.38 forty. You know much about him?

He's a tough evaluation because he was hurt a lot and Auburn rotated backs like Lady Gaga goes through costumes in concert. I like him catching the ball out of the backfield and operating the sprint-draw play out of the shotgun. He doesn't play as fast as he timed but he is still pretty fast for a bigger back. Picture Aaron Brown (remember him?) with 30 extra pounds and that's about what Fannin is as a runner. Brown was a better return guy and was a little more slippery, Fannin has better hands.

Bartender · Post #396 » by **Bartender** » Wed Apr 20, 2011 8:13 pm

Icness wrote:
Bartender wrote:Iceness, what do you think of Mario Fannin? 5-10, 230 pounds, and a 4.38 forty. You know much about him?

He's a tough evaluation because he was hurt a lot and Auburn rotated backs like Lady Gaga goes through costumes in concert. I like him catching the ball out of the backfield and operating the sprint-draw play out of the shotgun. He doesn't play as fast as he timed but he is still pretty fast for a bigger back. Picture Aaron Brown (remember him?) with 30 extra pounds and that's about what Fannin is as a runner. Brown was a better return guy and was a little more slippery, Fannin has better hands.

What round do you see him going? And do you think he would be worth a shot? I find him being a nice fit in our check down offense, and would love to take the chance on him in rounds 5-7. Does he play as heavy as he is? Could he be considered a better handed Michael Turner one day?

Piston Pete · Post #397 » by **Piston Pete** » Thu Apr 21, 2011 9:10 pm

Another thing I was mulling over was drafting DJ Williams (Arkansas) in one of the mid rounds and using him as an H-back type. Play him at both FB and TE to take advantage of mismatches. This would allow Felton to take on more of a ball-carrying role as a change-of-pace backup.

Likes, dislikes?

Post #398 » by **ajaX82** » Thu Apr 21, 2011 9:39 pm

Piston Pete wrote:Another thing I was mulling over was drafting DJ Williams (Arkansas) in one of the mid rounds and using him as an H-back type. Play him at both FB and TE to take advantage of mismatches. This would allow Felton to take on more of a ball-carrying role as a change-of-pace backup.

Likes, dislikes?

We're loaded at TE and Felton does a decent job at FB. I like the player, not the fit. We have too many other needs to address

Piston Pete · Post #399 » by **Piston Pete** » Thu Apr 21, 2011 11:16 pm

IMO, picking Williams in the 4th round (Iceness, any projection on where he might get drafted?) and having him be our backup FB and 3rd string TE seems like good value. Like I said before, I didn't want him to replace Felton, just take some FB workload off him and use Felton as starting FB and also backup (big, change-of-pace) RB.

1 - CB Prince A. (Nebraska)
2 - CB Ras I-Dowling (Virginia)
3 - OLB Bruce Carter (UNC)
4 - FB/TE DJ Williams (Arkansas)
5-7 = BPA's

Piston Pete · Post #400 » by **Piston Pete** » Thu Apr 21, 2011 11:39 pm

Also found two WR prospects we might be able to get in the 5th or 6th rounds who sounds extremely interesting. Iceness, can you fill us in on these guys?

Stephen Burton (West Texas A&M) - 6'1", 224 and ran a 4.38 at his Pro Day. (4.50 at combine)
Ricardo Lockette (Fort Valley State) - 6'2", 211 and ran a 4.34 at the combine.