ImageImageImageImageImage

Case for Keith Smart:

Moderators: Chris Porter's Hair, floppymoose, Sleepy51

GSForever
Banned User
Posts: 4,340
And1: 10
Joined: Feb 20, 2010

Case for Keith Smart: 

Post#1 » by GSForever » Mon Apr 18, 2011 2:20 pm

Keith Smart has been through many of the Ws down season. According to Curry he's been through 8 yrs with this organization. He's trying to build something positive here.

Based on other first yr coaches he's outcoached Avery and Rambis (assistant to Phil). He had a 10 win improvement even with Lee being out 14 games. Coach Smart has had a positive outlook on almost each players game. He had open dialogues with his players Lee in the beginning of the season and beaching Curry for his non existence D.

Just to get into the playoff you're asking for a 20 game improvement. That's alot for even a big name coach! Also Lacob expected a .50 % winning season this yr.

Multiple games holding opponents to under 100 which includes a staff of a undersized backcourt, rookie center and a non athletic 80 mil PF.

With bringing in another high profile coach. Your
probably going to run into the issue with resurrecting
AB to his old self. I don't think I can even bear the
thought of trying to fit in this high priced party going C
again!

He definitely needs another go! At least for 2 more seasons. With a high priced C this yr and a 3 guard. Coach Smart has a better chance to improve this team going forward.
Left*My*Heart
RealGM
Posts: 14,229
And1: 641
Joined: Aug 22, 2004
Location: Baja Oklahoma

Re: Case for Keith Smart: 

Post#2 » by Left*My*Heart » Mon Apr 18, 2011 2:56 pm

There are a lot of things to like about Smart and the Warriors can surely do a lot worse.

I am not privy to his practices and workouts, but I would assume they are run similar to most other NBA teams, so I can't judge him on that. The team got banged up a lot and again I'm not sure if there is anything related that Smart has control of.

I think his overall coaching this year was only average. The Warriors didn't overachieve for sure and if anything, they probably underachieved a tad. They were extremely competitive throughout the year and showed us that they are probably only a couple of players away from contending for a playoff birth.

Smart has to take some criticism for the play of Biedrins; who he reached out to, and Biedrins tossed him under the bus for his efforts. So the guy he really needed to play well disappeared a lot on the court. Smart unfortunately needs to shoulder a lot of blame for Biedrins play...right or wrong that is just how it works.

Curry was the other guy that sticks out as having issues with Smart. I found Smart's handling of Curry odd and inconsistent. Yes, Smart would yank Curry for his bad play, but other times when I felt Curry was really in need of being reigned in, Smart left him in the game. It wouldn't surprise me at all if Curry isn't the main reason Smart is no longer coaching the Warriors next season.

A lot of you won't like this...but a motivated sober Nellie would have easily won 10 more games. Mind you that I am not promoting Nellie here, for he is a drunken fool these days, but pointing out that a savvy veteran coach could get a lot more out of this team.

It would be nice to say there was a lot of player improvement under Smart, but I don't give him much credit for Monta or D. Wright, which had their best seasons. When you have a lost season and a young ball club, you need to see improvement of the young guys. I don't think he hurt the development of the young guys, but again, I don't think he created an environment for them to succeed in either.

Lacob had to complain about Udoh's minutes for Smart to start playing him more. Lin should have played more at the end of the season, as well as Adrien. Both would have good games, followed by a string of being nailed to the bench. You can't tell me that poor practices kept this guys on the bench. Even B. Wright before he was traded was given the same treatment.
Sleepy51
Forum Mod - Warriors
Forum Mod - Warriors
Posts: 35,709
And1: 2,331
Joined: Jun 28, 2005

Re: Case for Keith Smart: 

Post#3 » by Sleepy51 » Mon Apr 18, 2011 3:53 pm

Left*My*Heart wrote:Curry was the other guy that sticks out as having issues with Smart. I found Smart's handling of Curry odd and inconsistent. Yes, Smart would yank Curry for his bad play, but other times when I felt Curry was really in need of being reigned in, Smart left him in the game. It wouldn't surprise me at all if Curry isn't the main reason Smart is no longer coaching the Warriors next season.


I think the "relationship" issue with Curry is ginned up nonsense. Curry is not an idiot. He knows he's weak on the defensive end and he knows why he sat. He is smart enough to know that his offense is always going to come easy, but that competing on the defensive end is where he must improve the most if he wants to make the greatest contribution possible to his TEAM.

Fans wanted to salivate over massive 2nd year boxscores and wanted to see Curry "handed the keys." Smart probably could have wrung out a few more wins by letting Curry play through more of his gaffes, but instead, coach focused on trying to teach Curry to approach the game in ways that will pay dividends for this organization long after Smart moves on. GSW fans have gotten really accustomed to the idea that players hit their ceilings really early on in their NBA careers and have little or no regard for any actual multi-year development process. Our fans were once renowned for being amongst the smartest in the league, now we should be renowned for having the shortest attention spans.

Smart tried to coach Curry as though he will be coaching him for multiple years. The "let him run free" approach would have been the approach of a NCAA sneaker pimp, trying to use Curry's innate talents to leverage as many wins and the best next offer possible with no regard for building a foundation for a player to develop the right way. Smart took the approach of a trying to influence the things that Curry respects and what details he pays attention to over the course of his career. He tried to condition Curry to correlate defense with court time, foul trouble with the bench. Relying on Acie Law so much because he would put out effort on D was intended to make an impression upon Curry's "basketball value system."

Curry may never have the tools to be a strong defender at the PG position, but if he ends up being competent, or at least giving a crap on that end, it will be in part because his 2nd year coach made a concerted effort to force him to care about competing on the defensive end.

And I think the basketball people support the work Smart has done with Curry. Larry Riley just got extended and he didn't hesitate to drop a couple of notes in Curry's locker that strongly echo the way the coach handled him throughout the season:

Newly extended GM Larry Riley wrote:We’ve got a guy (Curry) who somehow led the league in free-throw percentage. When I sat down and talked to him, I said listen why in the hell couldn’t you figure out how to get to the free-throw line. You lead the league in free-throw percentage. You’ve got to get there more.

Now, I wasn’t chastising him. But the concept is, if you’re that good, let’s see if we can figure out some way you can get there. And that’s working with the coaches.

. . .

The reason I was talking to Curry and bringing that up—this kid is an intelligent young man. He’s going to be an outstanding player. Is (going to be) thought of for the next 10 or 12 years as one of the better point guards in the league. And this guy gets in foul trouble.

The other night he’s got three fouls in the first quarter and it’s not the first time it’s happened. And he’s an intelligent guy.

. . .

Now look, he turns the ball over some. His assist-to-turnover ratio is not good enough. He’s roughly going to be 2-to-1. You’ve got to be better than that. He’s not a frinished product and we understand that.


Smart is not the only guy who gave a crap about Curry's weaknesses. And this is not to say that anyone is writing Curry off for these issues, but they are trying to DEVELOP him beyond these current weaknesses.

Smart should not be our coach next season if someone BETTER is willing to take the job, but he should get a lot of props for his commitment to the long term interests of this franchise OVER his own short term interest in exploiting the talent to what would still even under the best of circumstances been a pretty meaningless win total.
Jester_ wrote:Can we trade Draymond Green for Grayson Allen?
GSForever
Banned User
Posts: 4,340
And1: 10
Joined: Feb 20, 2010

Re: Case for Keith Smart: 

Post#4 » by GSForever » Mon Apr 18, 2011 4:12 pm

Our team is not yet attractive enough to lure a big time coach. Even then a constant changing of coaching is not good for the development of a team. Unless your name is Mike K! Lacob show me your the man! At least try to lure someone in with a massive long term contract.
Left*My*Heart
RealGM
Posts: 14,229
And1: 641
Joined: Aug 22, 2004
Location: Baja Oklahoma

Re: Case for Keith Smart: 

Post#5 » by Left*My*Heart » Mon Apr 18, 2011 4:23 pm

Smart did an okay job and like I said...the Warriors can do a lot worse.

I disagree that Smart disregarded his own interests in the interest of development and the future. Smart was strictly out there every night to win games, especially meaningless games over development.

His handling of Udoh, Lin and Adrien for instance this season is very questionable. How he rewards minutes is troubling and that is basing meaningless wins over development. At least he cut Radman's minutes down at the end.
Left*My*Heart
RealGM
Posts: 14,229
And1: 641
Joined: Aug 22, 2004
Location: Baja Oklahoma

Re: Case for Keith Smart: 

Post#6 » by Left*My*Heart » Mon Apr 18, 2011 4:29 pm

Money talks and there are a lot of coaches out there I'm sure that wouldn't mind coaching Curry, Lee, D. Wright and Ellis. There isn't the coach's nightmare in the locker room and the team seems to have a lot of positive energy.

I could see several coaches wanting this position, especially a well established coach who can come right in and make his mark.
Sleepy51
Forum Mod - Warriors
Forum Mod - Warriors
Posts: 35,709
And1: 2,331
Joined: Jun 28, 2005

Re: Case for Keith Smart: 

Post#7 » by Sleepy51 » Mon Apr 18, 2011 5:12 pm

Left*My*Heart wrote:Smart did an okay job and like I said...the Warriors can do a lot worse.

I disagree that Smart disregarded his own interests in the interest of development and the future. Smart was strictly out there every night to win games, especially meaningless games over development.

His handling of Udoh, Lin and Adrien for instance this season is very questionable. How he rewards minutes is troubling and that is basing meaningless wins over development. At least he cut Radman's minutes down at the end.


NOTHING about how Smart handled Curry (our most important "development" prospect) aligns at all with this "win meaningless games" strategy. He could certainly have won more by playing Curry more minutes instead of Acie Law. The Curry issue says it all. He sacrificed Curry's minutes which were largely "winning minutes" for the sake of changing Curry's approach to certain parts of the game. Parts of the game that Curry MUST improve at in order to max out his contribution to a good team.

Despite the obvious priorities in the handling of our highest development priority, we're supposed to fret about the handling of Vlad, Udoh (who is a nice defender, but ultimately a roleplayer level talent) Lin (3rd string PG upside) and Adrien (3rd string specialist)?

It may be convenient for your perspective not to give Smart any credit for the improvement in our core players, but the facts are Smart was their coach and all 4 of our players who matter made big gains. Wright made a huge leap as a player. Lee toughened up and started playing reasonable man to man defense, Monta became a superior playmaker and facilitator and Curry became a more complete and disciplined player with much more of a two way focus and shut down what was a MAJOR turnover problem at the start of the season.

The fan priorities in that sentiment are completely backwards. This WAS a developmental season. Smart focused on developing our GOOD players.

We have untapped resources that we've invested tens of millions of dollars of long term money in. Guys who had not been taught a stitch of 5 on 5 basketball for the previous 2 years. Guys who have not been taught ANYTHING about defense or playing away from the ball. Monta, Wright, Lee and Curry all needed development and guidance from a coach willing to teach organized basketball and they got it.

Major props for not feeding fans fascination with the unknown upside of draft picks and focusing on the important players on this roster.
Jester_ wrote:Can we trade Draymond Green for Grayson Allen?
User avatar
KevinMcreynolds
RealGM
Posts: 13,155
And1: 3,490
Joined: Feb 07, 2010
Location: Sacramento
     

Re: Case for Keith Smart: 

Post#8 » by KevinMcreynolds » Mon Apr 18, 2011 7:01 pm

He plays smallball lineups. He should of been fired an hour after the Portland game.
floppymoose wrote:Too much Vlad. Sixers can't handle it. Solid gold.

"I'm a big proponent of footwork. Believe me." ~Jim Barnett
Sleepy51
Forum Mod - Warriors
Forum Mod - Warriors
Posts: 35,709
And1: 2,331
Joined: Jun 28, 2005

Re: Case for Keith Smart: 

Post#9 » by Sleepy51 » Mon Apr 18, 2011 7:05 pm

Amundson and Biedrins sucked wet hog balls for 90% of the season. Who was he supposed to be playing?
Jester_ wrote:Can we trade Draymond Green for Grayson Allen?
shazam_guy
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,120
And1: 1,136
Joined: Feb 03, 2009

Re: Case for Keith Smart: 

Post#10 » by shazam_guy » Mon Apr 18, 2011 7:18 pm

Sleep, you gotta stop saying stuff like "wet hog balls." That's just not the indelible image I need to carry around on a Monday.
Left*My*Heart
RealGM
Posts: 14,229
And1: 641
Joined: Aug 22, 2004
Location: Baja Oklahoma

Re: Case for Keith Smart: 

Post#11 » by Left*My*Heart » Mon Apr 18, 2011 7:22 pm

Smart went small ball on a few occasions, but for the most part he played straight up. There were a few games that he was forced into going small because his opponent did and Portland was one of the teams that went with a small lineup with Camby being out.
User avatar
Mylie10
RealGM
Posts: 41,240
And1: 9,618
Joined: Sep 16, 2005
Location: * Chokers! *
Contact:
     

Re: Case for Keith Smart: 

Post#12 » by Mylie10 » Mon Apr 18, 2011 7:26 pm

When talking about past years defensive strategy's, we have to ackowledge that Smart was the "Defensive coordinator".

Smart did some good things this year and some that I disagree with. But overall the defensive philosophy needs to change. I'd likje a complete change in that area.

But based on the state of the NBA regarding the lockout, sticking with Smart is probably going to happen. If there's an avoidence of a lockout, then maybe the Warriors make a move to another coach.
Khoee wrote “
Mav_Carter wrote: my list doesn't matter...I'm pretty much wrong on everything...
Sleepy51
Forum Mod - Warriors
Forum Mod - Warriors
Posts: 35,709
And1: 2,331
Joined: Jun 28, 2005

Re: Case for Keith Smart: 

Post#13 » by Sleepy51 » Mon Apr 18, 2011 7:33 pm

shazam_guy wrote:Sleep, you gotta stop saying stuff like "wet hog balls." That's just not the indelible image I need to carry around on a Monday.


Here you go!

Image
Jester_ wrote:Can we trade Draymond Green for Grayson Allen?
Sleepy51
Forum Mod - Warriors
Forum Mod - Warriors
Posts: 35,709
And1: 2,331
Joined: Jun 28, 2005

Re: Case for Keith Smart: 

Post#14 » by Sleepy51 » Mon Apr 18, 2011 7:38 pm

Mylie10 wrote:When talking about past years defensive strategy's, we have to ackowledge that Smart was the "Defensive coordinator".


Still taking Nelson's gimmicky rants seriously? He let Smart influence substitutions based on defensive execution for all of 5 games before he pulled the plug and went back to streetball.

But I wonder, were you a fan or an opponent of the defensive system during the We Believe run? Because we won all those games on the defensive end. Tons of blitzing and gambling and passing lane D to produce turnovers. And it won a playoff series . . . just sayin'
Jester_ wrote:Can we trade Draymond Green for Grayson Allen?
thardawayfan
Freshman
Posts: 97
And1: 0
Joined: Mar 20, 2006
Contact:

Re: Case for Keith Smart: 

Post#15 » by thardawayfan » Mon Apr 18, 2011 7:55 pm

I'm pro-Keith Smart. This is a guy who really improved Golden State's defense, despite being given a seriously flawed lineup. Keep in mind that we had the worst frontline in the West. We traded away Randolph, Turiaf, B Wright, and got rid of Jeff Adrien early in the season. Our best defensive big man was a rookie that missed training camp and the first 2-3 months of the season. Think about that--we don't have one top 15 big man in the league, much less in the West. David Lee is a nice midrange shooter who can grab some rebounds, but he's basically Antawn Jamison 2.0--an undersized 4 who's too small and skinny to defend real 4s and 5s and too upright and laterally slow to defend 3s. Not exactly a guy worth $80M or whatever he's being paid. Everyone should have known that was a horrendous trade from day 1.

Add to that a starting backcourt of Ellis and Curry. We had no business winning more than 30 games this year with as an atrocious of a defensive lineup that we had.

Despite that, Smart had the Warriors playing the best defense they've played in years. Rotations were crisp and the pick and roll was finally defended aggressively. We gave up a lot of points because we couldn't defend anyone down low 1 on 1 and Monta still only gave full defensive effort only about 50% of the time. I'll blame Smart for not yanking Monta out for bad defensive effort, but that's about it.

All you fans who think good coaching is about which player should be getting a few more minutes here and b**** about that are nothing but a bunch of amateurs. You don't pay a coach millions of dollars just because he would play so-and-so player a few more minutes. Coaching starts with getting your team to play together, know exactly how to handle different situations, and being able to get your team to play solid defesne. I think Smart proved he could do that with just 1 year under his belt. I hope Smart gets a least 2 more years.
Left*My*Heart
RealGM
Posts: 14,229
And1: 641
Joined: Aug 22, 2004
Location: Baja Oklahoma

Re: Case for Keith Smart: 

Post#16 » by Left*My*Heart » Mon Apr 18, 2011 7:57 pm

The We Believe Team had a toughness that this squad desperately needs.
User avatar
Mylie10
RealGM
Posts: 41,240
And1: 9,618
Joined: Sep 16, 2005
Location: * Chokers! *
Contact:
     

Re: Case for Keith Smart: 

Post#17 » by Mylie10 » Mon Apr 18, 2011 8:00 pm

Sleepy51 wrote:
Mylie10 wrote:When talking about past years defensive strategy's, we have to ackowledge that Smart was the "Defensive coordinator".


Still taking Nelson's gimmicky rants seriously? He let Smart influence substitutions based on defensive execution for all of 5 games before he pulled the plug and went back to streetball.

But I wonder, were you a fan or an opponent of the defensive system during the We Believe run? Because we won all those games on the defensive end. Tons of blitzing and gambling and passing lane D to produce turnovers. And it won a playoff series . . . just sayin'


Different players. We had no bigs to speak of. It was THE ONLY way we could compete.

I was constantly ranting about the need for bigger players and not using pietrus and Barnes as our power forwards. But I also realize that if their numbers are being called, then that's the best chance you have while getting out rebounded night in and night out.

That team was fun and I would've liked to add pieces to it...preferrably big pieces.

The current line-up doesn't have those types of 6'6" 6'7" tweeners that could only compete inside by gambling.
Khoee wrote “
Mav_Carter wrote: my list doesn't matter...I'm pretty much wrong on everything...
Sleepy51
Forum Mod - Warriors
Forum Mod - Warriors
Posts: 35,709
And1: 2,331
Joined: Jun 28, 2005

Re: Case for Keith Smart: 

Post#18 » by Sleepy51 » Mon Apr 18, 2011 8:08 pm

Mylie10 wrote:
Sleepy51 wrote:
Mylie10 wrote:When talking about past years defensive strategy's, we have to ackowledge that Smart was the "Defensive coordinator".


Still taking Nelson's gimmicky rants seriously? He let Smart influence substitutions based on defensive execution for all of 5 games before he pulled the plug and went back to streetball.

But I wonder, were you a fan or an opponent of the defensive system during the We Believe run? Because we won all those games on the defensive end. Tons of blitzing and gambling and passing lane D to produce turnovers. And it won a playoff series . . . just sayin'


Different players. We had no bigs to speak of. It was THE ONLY way we could compete.

I was constantly ranting about the need for bigger players and not using pietrus and Barnes as our power forwards. But I also realize that if their numbers are being called, then that's the best chance you have while getting out rebounded night in and night out.

That team was fun and I would've liked to add pieces to it...preferrably big pieces.

The current line-up doesn't have those types of 6'6" 6'7" tweeners that could only compete inside by gambling.


The system worked because the players were more skilled, not because they were a particular size.

Barnes, Pete, Jrich >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Reggie, Vlad, Thornton.

Duh.
Jester_ wrote:Can we trade Draymond Green for Grayson Allen?
User avatar
Mylie10
RealGM
Posts: 41,240
And1: 9,618
Joined: Sep 16, 2005
Location: * Chokers! *
Contact:
     

Re: Case for Keith Smart: 

Post#19 » by Mylie10 » Mon Apr 18, 2011 8:13 pm

Exactly...So when the roster changes, so should your style of play.

I agree that the roster is much weaker on the whole. There's no getting around that. But it took Smart a helluva a long time to figure out that Lee and Andris over playing D on the perimeter is a losing battle.

Udoh refused to over play. It was in his DNA to stay back and worry more about not venturing to far out. Andris and Lee were just doing what they were told. They did it wrong...we agree. But it's up to the coach to change things. It took him way to long to make that adjustment.

He still talks passing lane stuff way to much. It's ok to a certain extent, but overall, this current group of players don't possess the athleticism needed to play that style. The We Believe team could do it.
Khoee wrote “
Mav_Carter wrote: my list doesn't matter...I'm pretty much wrong on everything...
GSForever
Banned User
Posts: 4,340
And1: 10
Joined: Feb 20, 2010

Re: Case for Keith Smart: 

Post#20 » by GSForever » Mon Apr 18, 2011 8:21 pm

Thank You for your posting!!

Return to Golden State Warriors