Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 7

[God Squad]

I had Knight in my top 4 before. But that's when HB and PJIII and others were still in the draft. I'm tempted to but him top 3 again just because I like his potential. I really think he could be good.

[MEDIC]

Ok, i'm gonna be honest but this is a trend i notice from draft to draft, in terms of comparing Bismack to Whiteside I feel that Bismack is recieving the same type of spike as Hassan Whiteside did last year and I was one of the person that was on the Hassan Whiteside bandwagon, never will I ever make the same mistake twice.

I was never on the Whiteside bandwagon. I wanted no part of him & couldn't understand why people were considering him with our pick.

Other than being raw & shot blockers, I don't think you can compare the two players.

- Biyombo is built like a man
(Whiteside was a scrawny, weak kid)
- Biyombo is playing in a mens professional league & succeeding there
(Whiteside played in a weak NCAA conference & probably had more length than anyone)
- Biyombo has shown a confidence/ no fear/ aggressive style of play
(Whiteside is an awkward, aww shucks, shy kid that appeared very tentative)

I don't think there is a comparison there at all. HA!'s comparison of Serge Ibaka is a much more accurate/ fair comparison.

Comparing Biyombo to Whiteside is like comparing Kanter to Hoffa.

[HSOB SIRHC]

Here's a question, How is Knights handles? From what I've seen, it's pretty weak. I can't see him doing much in iso situations. That's why I'm starting to consider Walker over Knight.

[SDM]

In one of those Biyombo clips posted a couple pages back (thanks, btw), you see him contest a shot, fly into the crowd, and run back on the break and finish a dunk. That kind of recklessness is inspiring (and scary) and it trickles down to teammates and helps establish a pace. His passing looks okay for a big and he seems to set a decent screen. His hands seem decent. While he's closer to a run and jump athlete than a baller, he's not exactly a blank slate of basketball knowledge. He contests absolutely everything and recovers well enough to contest with his other hand. His defensive positioning looks good though I noticed some guys blow past him (though he might be cherrypicking to contest the shot). He's going to be a work in progress but I can definitely see why some people are enamored with him.

[God Squad]

Here's a question, How is Knights handles? From what I've seen, it's pretty weak. I can't see him doing much in iso situations. That's why I'm starting to consider Walker over Knight.

I must admit his handles do seem shaky/wild. But he's young and he's a guard. I really believe he'll tighten those up.

[MEDIC]

Here's a question, How is Knights handles? From what I've seen, it's pretty weak. I can't see him doing much in iso situations. That's why I'm starting to consider Walker over Knight.

Yeah, I don't get all the love for Knight on this board. I wish I could see what others are seeing & get excited about the guy, but I just don't.

Here's what I saw watching him:

- Bit of a chucker
- Weak handles (loses the ball a lot when penetrating)
- Doesn't have great finishing skills around the bucket
- Does not have a PG mentality
- Looks like an undersized 2 guard
- Looks kind of mechanical rather than smooth (Ball handling reminds me of Boogie Williams)

He looks like a very hard working competitive player with skills that won't translate well in the NBA. He looks like a short 2 guard in the mold of a Jason Terry, but does not possess the skill that Terry has.

Juan Dixon 2.0?

Love his heart & competitive fire, but...........

Wouldn't be surprised if he dropped out of the top 10.

[andyo]

I wasn't impressed at all at Bismack. He has length and anticipates shots well but I see no established post game, he sets weak screens and he dribbles into tight spaces a lot when he gets the ball. He also doesn't box out.

I'm just basing it on the series of clips that was posted earlier.

I think I'd prefer Kanter by far than Val or Bismack. Regardless of what the other naysayers argue (some of which cherry pick stats that have seemingly have no relevance to the viability of Kanter as a prospect)- see the argument concerning his length.

Btw I also don't want Knight or Kemba either. Knight doesn't look like a true PG at all and likewise with Kemba. Kemba was quite the dynamic player at the college level but if you look at his peers that just came up (guys like Tyreke, Westbrook, etc.), I don't see anything special. I think I'd rather let Bayless take the reigns than either of these two guys.

Sigh, looks like a weak draft outside of the top 2.

[MEDIC]

I think I'd prefer Kanter by far than Val or Bismack. Regardless of what the other naysayers argue (some of which cherry pick stats that have seemingly have no relevance to the viability of Kanter as a prospect)- see the argument concerning his length.

Here's the way I see the Kanter situation:

He's not the perfect C by any means, but he is probably more capable of playing the position than anyone we have now. Who knows, maybe he would be more suited to play PF.

If he is the BPA (which I suspect he will be @ #3) , we should draft him. Even if his most suited position is PF, we should draft him.

This draft unfortunately is sooo weak that we simply have to secure a valuable asset. If down the road we find someone that is more suited to play the C position, we either play Kanter at PF or trade him.

It's all about collecting assets that have value.

If we do draft Kanter, I would still like to sign a veteran C to play some minutes (possibly even start) & mentor Kanter. We have far too many kids on this team with no mentors.

[notic519]

What are peoples thoughts on Terrence Jones? Out of the players coming out of Kentucky, I think I'm most intrigued with him. He has great handles and a pretty big wingspan for a forward. Raptors right now don't have many players that can actually create their own shot.

I also think that in Kentucky he was used more in the post which doesn't exactly cater to his strengths which I think are more of a penetrating wing.

To be Brandon Knight seems more of a sg than a pg and if that's the case might as well just keep Bayless.

If the raps fall to 5th or 6th is it too much of a reach to take Jones?

[Reignman]

I think I'd prefer Kanter by far than Val or Bismack. Regardless of what the other naysayers argue (some of which cherry pick stats that have seemingly have no relevance to the viability of Kanter as a prospect)- see the argument concerning his length.

Here's the way I see the Kanter situation:

He's not the perfect C by any means, but he is probably more capable of playing the position than anyone we have now. Who knows, maybe he would be more suited to play PF.

If he is the BPA (which I suspect he will be @ #3) , we should draft him. Even if his most suited position is PF, we should draft him.

This draft unfortunately is sooo weak that we simply have to secure a valuable asset. If down the road we find someone that is more suited to play the C position, we either play Kanter at PF or trade him.

It's all about collecting assets that have value.

If we do draft Kanter, I would still like to sign a veteran C to play some minutes (possibly even start) & mentor Kanter. We have far too many kids on this team with no mentors.

Exactly my thoughts. But who would we bring in? Guys like Kwame or Daly don't exactly scream "mentor" to me.

A guy like Kurt Thomas would be the perfect fit but he won't come here.

Any suggestions?

[Truthrising]

Ok, i'm gonna be honest but this is a trend i notice from draft to draft, in terms of comparing Bismack to Whiteside I feel that Bismack is recieving the same type of spike as Hassan Whiteside did last year and I was one of the person that was on the Hassan Whiteside bandwagon, never will I ever make the same mistake twice.

I was never on the Whiteside bandwagon. I wanted no part of him & couldn't understand why people were considering him with our pick.

Other than being raw & shot blockers, I don't think you can compare the two players.

- Biyombo is built like a man
(Whiteside was a scrawny, weak kid)
- Biyombo is playing in a mens professional league & succeeding there
(Whiteside played in a weak NCAA conference & probably had more length than anyone)
- Biyombo has shown a confidence/ no fear/ aggressive style of play
(Whiteside is an awkward, aww shucks, shy kid that appeared very tentative)

I don't think there is a comparison there at all. HA!'s comparison of Serge Ibaka is a much more accurate/ fair comparison.

Comparing Biyombo to Whiteside is like comparing Kanter to Hoffa.

I understand that their physique may be different and possibly their attitiude, all i'm saying is he's recieving the same hype as what Whiteside had recieved last year meaning what we're discussing here is a very raw player in which he may take years to develop. I don't think the Raps would be inclined to take such a risky pick as well at the 3rd spot. Especially if we're looking at a ceiling of Serge Ibaka or it's possible that he may end up being someone like Saer Sene or Desagana Diop. I would take a shot at him if it was further down the draft ie 8 or lower though.

[Consequence]

I think I'd prefer Kanter by far than Val or Bismack. Regardless of what the other naysayers argue (some of which cherry pick stats that have seemingly have no relevance to the viability of Kanter as a prospect)- see the argument concerning his length.

Here's the way I see the Kanter situation:

He's not the perfect C by any means, but he is probably more capable of playing the position than anyone we have now. Who knows, maybe he would be more suited to play PF.

If he is the BPA (which I suspect he will be @ #3) , we should draft him. Even if his most suited position is PF, we should draft him.

This draft unfortunately is sooo weak that we simply have to secure a valuable asset. If down the road we find someone that is more suited to play the C position, we either play Kanter at PF or trade him.

It's all about collecting assets that have value.

If we do draft Kanter, I would still like to sign a veteran C to play some minutes (possibly even start) & mentor Kanter. We have far too many kids on this team with no mentors.

Exactly my thoughts. But who would we bring in? Guys like Kwame or Daly don't exactly scream "mentor" to me.

A guy like Kurt Thomas would be the perfect fit but he won't come here.

Any suggestions?

Mohammed?

[Silk Wilkes]

Here's the way I see the Kanter situation:

He's not the perfect C by any means, but he is probably more capable of playing the position than anyone we have now. Who knows, maybe he would be more suited to play PF.

If he is the BPA (which I suspect he will be @ #3) , we should draft him. Even if his most suited position is PF, we should draft him.

This draft unfortunately is sooo weak that we simply have to secure a valuable asset. If down the road we find someone that is more suited to play the C position, we either play Kanter at PF or trade him.

It's all about collecting assets that have value.

If we do draft Kanter, I would still like to sign a veteran C to play some minutes (possibly even start) & mentor Kanter. We have far too many kids on this team with no mentors.

Exactly my thoughts. But who would we bring in? Guys like Kwame or Daly don't exactly scream "mentor" to me.

A guy like Kurt Thomas would be the perfect fit but he won't come here.

Any suggestions?

Mohammed?

From what I hear Enes already schooled him. I wonder if Nazr will be able to command his respect

[Hassassin]

I think I'd prefer Kanter by far than Val or Bismack. Regardless of what the other naysayers argue (some of which cherry pick stats that have seemingly have no relevance to the viability of Kanter as a prospect)- see the argument concerning his length.

Here's the way I see the Kanter situation:

He's not the perfect C by any means, but he is probably more capable of playing the position than anyone we have now. Who knows, maybe he would be more suited to play PF.

If he is the BPA (which I suspect he will be @ #3) , we should draft him. Even if his most suited position is PF, we should draft him.

This draft unfortunately is sooo weak that we simply have to secure a valuable asset. If down the road we find someone that is more suited to play the C position, we either play Kanter at PF or trade him.

It's all about collecting assets that have value.

If we do draft Kanter, I would still like to sign a veteran C to play some minutes (possibly even start) & mentor Kanter. We have far too many kids on this team with no mentors.

Exactly my thoughts. But who would we bring in? Guys like Kwame or Daly don't exactly scream "mentor" to me.

A guy like Kurt Thomas would be the perfect fit but he won't come here.

Any suggestions?

Why not an ex player in an assistant coach position?

[FluLikeSymptoms]

BPA is always a guess, you never know, but this year it's almost right out the window. How could you ever trust your conclusion? I've always liked the high-school prospect way of doing things, with a star system. Groups of talent before individual rankings. Objective, then subjective.

This year, I think Irving is the only 5-star and DWill the only 4-star, which is the terrible part. Usually there are only one or two 5-star guys but several 4-star guys, and among the 4-stars there is no clear BPA, just the one you like best for your situation. The BPA drum isn't worth beating for players on roughly the same level.

If we're at #3 this year, we're sifting through about a dozen 3-star guys if the Euros don't destroy all in Chicago. There will be no clear BPA, no likely franchise-changer, so you have to consider things like position, measurements/times and character(not Caliper) more than you ordinarily would with a pick so high. We have to look at #3 this year like we looked at #13 last year, but sadly, we're probably not getting a 4-star guy like Ed.

If the raps fall to 5th or 6th is it too much of a reach to take Jones?

Said it before, T.Jones looks like a good bet to be an NBA rotation player, decent bet to be a starter and could be a safe pick among the mysteries. Knight hurt Jones' stock, IMO, and Jones did deliver in a few ways when he had the rare chance with a pass, a block or a board. He's the rich man's James Johnson IMO, but you'd have to think you're drafting a weak-side guy. 5-6 this year? Not a reach if you like him and have minutes for him, I don't think.

[Reignman]

Here's the way I see the Kanter situation:

He's not the perfect C by any means, but he is probably more capable of playing the position than anyone we have now. Who knows, maybe he would be more suited to play PF.

If he is the BPA (which I suspect he will be @ #3) , we should draft him. Even if his most suited position is PF, we should draft him.

This draft unfortunately is sooo weak that we simply have to secure a valuable asset. If down the road we find someone that is more suited to play the C position, we either play Kanter at PF or trade him.

It's all about collecting assets that have value.

If we do draft Kanter, I would still like to sign a veteran C to play some minutes (possibly even start) & mentor Kanter. We have far too many kids on this team with no mentors.

Exactly my thoughts. But who would we bring in? Guys like Kwame or Daly don't exactly scream "mentor" to me.

A guy like Kurt Thomas would be the perfect fit but he won't come here.

Any suggestions?

Why not an ex player in an assistant coach position?

LOL, i was so tied up in killing two birds with one stone (back up vet C / mentor) that I completely overlooked the obvious.

If we could bring in a guy like Sabonis or maybe even Webber (bigs that knew how to defend/score/pass) that would be ideal.

But a guy like Willis/Ewing/etc would be just as good.

[just23]

At this point I'm still leaning towards Jonas out of the three center prospects. I just like what I hear about his motor and that 90 percent free throw percentage is such a rarity that it says something about his work ethic. If he never develops great footwork offensively I'd be okay with it. I think Ed Davis looks like he could be a better offensive player than I first thought. If all Jonas turns out to be is a high motor guy who hustles at both ends of the floor and DOESN'T get into foul trouble, while making better than 90 percent at the charity stripe I'll be happy. Not a star, but far from a liability either. He does need some serious strength training though.
I'd be okay with Kanter as well since we've never had a bruiser at the 5 spot, but I don't see him being anything more than an average defender. However, his style at the moment seems the most complimentary to Davis', so if we're going to commit long term to Ed, he's probably the most logical choice of the 3.
Biyambo is just so short that it scares me. Is he even 6'8 without shoes? He's also the most raw of the 3 bigs. In 5 years he could be a top 3 player from this draft, but he could also be just a bench warmer.
These workouts are going to count for a lot this year and if any of these guys avoids them I think you have to pass on that particular player, unless our scouting staff has been following these guys close enough to have a solid opinion on them all. Right now there just isn't enough solid data to make a choice with.
I hope we get that top 2 pick, or this could be a rough draft year for us.

[CunningLinguist]

What? Now he's getting Brad Miller comparisons, who was mainly a face-up player? They're not close.

There's too many below the rim beasts for people to make this the main flag. Period. ZBo, Boozer, Scola, Kevin Love, Elton Brand, David West, Al Jefferson

Every one of which is a horrible defender.

[dagger]

DraftExpress Jonathan Givony
Teams were buying picks in the 50s for 500k last year. You couldn't trade a late first round pick for a bag of potato chips right now.

[CunningLinguist]

Brandon Knight is a clear favorite to me.

Elite quickness and athleticism
Great size and length for a defender
Elite scorer with advanced perimeter and finishing skills (already has a great floater in the lane; can score in any ISO situation)
Already scouted as one of the top 3 HS recruits
Smart person who looks like he has the killer mentality

He may not be a pass-first PG, but we have Calderon for two more years to teach him. His assist to turnover ratio improved over the year and he did step up in the tournament.

The guy reminds me a lot of Gilbert Arenas or Rondo with a jumper. We missed out on Jrue Holiday, this is our due-over.

Agreed. I think Knight will eventually be the 2nd most impactful player from this draft, after Irving. As an overall prospect, he has none of the size, athleticism issues of Kanter or Val, or the offensive limitations of Biyombo. His point guard skills improved over the course of the season and there's a long list of top NBA PGs who's passing skills/floorgame weren't any better than Knight's when entering the league. Some examples:

Billups
Holliday
Rose
Westbrook
Parker
Rondo
Harris

Also, lest we forget, this team needs perimiter defense and 3 point shooting in a very big way. Knight can provide those things in spades.

I'd proably take Terrence Jones over any of those guys as well.

I think many are falling into the familiar "we need a centre" trap. I also think it's more than a coincidence that there is so much discussion around players that nobody has had a chance to really evaluate and subject to scrutiny (Kanter/Val/Biyombo). The "mystery box" option ends up being more appealing than those players that you can find flaws in from seeing them play in competitive situations.