Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 7

[TiKusDom]

Are you illiterate? I'm not comparing them as freshmen. I said Kemba is the better leader now. Why the hell do I care about his leadership as a freshman?

Tell me what makes Knight such a good leader. Is it because he took his team to the semi's? If that's your criteria, then Kemba is better. If that's not your criteria, then explain it to me.

You seriously think Knight on UConn instead of Kemba would win it all? You're delusional.

Oh am I , and you think that Walker on KY would win the championship, prove it. You think Walker is is a better leader? talk about delusions. Maybe youre the one thats illiterate, I am comparing their developmental curves and what they accomplished at the same age, and you still dont get it. Brandon Knight is better in every way at the same age point than Walker. Numbers, intangibles statistics. Walker is a better leader? Prove it. Yeah he managed to squeeze by Kentucky by one point thanks to Terrence Jones's choke job at the free throw line. What a great leader Kemba walker is. You have nothing to back up , empirically, Kemba being better than Knight. Knight is ahead in development than Kemba was at the same age in every single category. Get real. In terms of being prospects the two arent even close.

What makes Knight such a good leader? I dont know , maybe if you knew your NCAA basketball history you wouldnt ask such redundant questions. Lets see, he takes Kentucky, one of the most recognized and esteem basketball programs in the history of the NCAA to the final four as a freshman , who has not been to the NCAA final four , in 11 years. Something John Wall, Rondo, Cousins and a barrage of great KY players before him failed to do.

[5DOM]

Reef, follow your own advice and don't bother.

[Reef]

Are you illiterate? I'm not comparing them as freshmen. I said Kemba is the better leader now. Why the hell do I care about his leadership as a freshman?

Tell me what makes Knight such a good leader. Is it because he took his team to the semi's? If that's your criteria, then Kemba is better. If that's not your criteria, then explain it to me.

You seriously think Knight on UConn instead of Kemba would win it all? You're delusional.

Oh am I , and you think that Walker on KY would win the championship, prove it. You think Walker is is a better leader? talk about delusions. Maybe youre the one thats illiterate, I am comparing their developmental curves and what they accomplished at the same age, and you still dont get it. Brandon Knight is better in every way at the same age point than Walker. Numbers, intangibles statistics. Walker is a better leader? Prove it. Yeah he managed to squeeze by Kentucky by one point thanks to Terrence Jones's choke job at the free throw line. What a great leader Kemba walker is. You have nothing to back up , empirically, Kemba being better than Knight. Knight is ahead in development than Kemba was at the same age in every single category. Get real. In terms of being prospects the two arent even close.

What makes Knight such a good leader? I dont know , maybe if you knew your NCAA basketball history you wouldnt ask such reduntant history. Lets see, he takes Kentucky, one of the most recognized and esteem basketball programs in the history of the NCAA to the final four as a freshman , who has not been to the NCAA final four , in 11 years. Something John Wall, Rondo, Cousins and a barrage of great KY players before him failed to do.

LOL...we aren't talking about development curves. I said Walker is the better leader RIGHT NOW!!!!!! It doesn't matter if they won by 1 point or 50. A win is a win. Almost isnt' good enough. Don't blame it on Jones. Knight was terrible in that game as well. He choked at the end when Kemba was covering him too.

So using your logic, if going further into the tournament makes you a better leader, then Kemba's the best.

Why do you think it was all Knight being the reason they went so far? There's so many variables. Jones was a huge part of it too.

[Reef]

Reef, follow your own advice and don't bother.

You're right. I'm done. It's like talking to a wall.

[TiKusDom]

LOL...we aren't talking about development curves. I said Walker is the better leader RIGHT NOW!!!!!! It doesn't matter if they won by 1 point or 50. A win is a win. Almost isnt' good enough. Don't blame it on Jones. Knight was terrible in that game as well. He choked at the end when Kemba was covering him too.

So using your logic, if going further into the tournament makes you a better leader, then Kemba's the best.

Why do you think it was all Knight being the reason they went so far? There's so many variables. Jones was a huge part of it too.

WOW you didnt even watch the game did you . Walker was NOT covering Brandon , it was Napier almost the entire game. If you dont even know that, lol we dont have anything to talk about

[Rude Boy 1]

Oh am I , and you think that Walker on KY would win the championship, prove it. You think Walker is is a better leader? talk about delusions. Maybe youre the one thats illiterate, I am comparing their developmental curves and what they accomplished at the same age, and you still dont get it. Brandon Knight is better in every way at the same age point than Walker. Numbers, intangibles statistics. Walker is a better leader? Prove it. Yeah he managed to squeeze by Kentucky by one point thanks to Terrence Jones's choke job at the free throw line. What a great leader Kemba walker is. You have nothing to back up , empirically, Kemba being better than Knight. Knight is ahead in development than Kemba was at the same age in every single category. Get real. In terms of being prospects the two arent even close.

What makes Knight such a good leader? I dont know , maybe if you knew your NCAA basketball history you wouldnt ask such redundant questions. Lets see, he takes Kentucky, one of the most recognized and esteem basketball programs in the history of the NCAA to the final four as a freshman , who has not been to the NCAA final four , in 11 years. Something John Wall, Rondo, Cousins and a barrage of great KY players before him failed to do.

You make it sound like Knight carried the team on his back to get to the final 4... he was awful in more than just one game. I don't even know how you can debate who the better leader is when Kemba had the season he did. There is no evidence to suggest Knight can lead a team

[Gold Dragon]

I agree that Knight is way ahead of Kemba at the same level of development. But at the same time, you cannot discount the development that Kemba has made in the last two years, expecting Knight to make the same leaps. Maybe he will but that is an uncertainty while Kemba's development over the last two years is a certainty.

For prospects, it is a difficult juggling act of balancing their current development and their future projected development that may or may not happen.

I'm a big fan of Kemba and think that his skills will translate quickly to the NBA. His ceiling may not be as high as Knight's but his floor is not as low either because of the development he has had in the last two years. With that said, I would not mind drafting Knight over Kemba if he was the BPA for the Raps pick.

[TDotRep]

#1 Irving
#2 Williams
#3 Kanter
#4 Valanciunas
#5 Jones
#6 Walker
#7 Knight
#8 Vesley
#9 Burks
#10 Biyombo
#11 Motiejunas
#12 Thompson
#13 Leonard
#14 Hamilton
#15 Ferdette
#16 Morris
#17 Nogueira
#18 Nolan Smith

After 11 is a wildcard but I think my top 11 is solid.

[TiKusDom]

You make it sound like Knight carried the team on his back to get to the final 4... he was awful in more than just one game. I don't even know how you can debate who the better leader is when Kemba had the season he did. There is no evidence to suggest Knight can lead a team

its a team game. kemba didnt do it by himself either. no evidence to suggest Knight can lead? Did you watch the tournament? Hitting game winning shot against Princeton? Hitting game winning shot against Sullinger and OSU , the best team in the country? As a freshman Knight stepped up BIG TIME, no evidence to suggest Knight can lead a team???? How many teams in the final four can you remember whose offense was being led by a guy straight out of high-school who has never been to the NCAA tournament before?? Are you for real. Tell me one team in the final four this year that had a freshman as the center of its team.... , or the year before? Tell me one freshman who comes to your mind that has hit as many game winning shots in the NCAA tournament that has played as much of a role for their team as Knight did for KY ??

[Gold Dragon]

One thing to consider in Knight vs Walker is that with Bayless and Calderon, minutes for development on the Raptors will be severely limited unless we move one of them. I'm not sure either Knight or Walker are good enough to justify moving Bayless and Calderon may be unmoveable or very difficult to move. And even if one is moved, the other will still command significant minutes.

So with that in mind, do you get the more polished player who doesn't need as many minutes for development in Kemba? Possibly.

[sunny]

if i put tikusdom on ignore, will all his posts that are embedded in quotes also be ignored?

[toka]

if i put tikusdom on ignore, will all his posts that are embedded in quotes also be ignored?

I wish. The dude's arguing that Kemba Walker's not that good of a leader yet he led a pretty bad team with 1 other guy who can create any offense or even knock down a shot to a title.

[fredericklove]

if i put tikusdom on ignore, will all his posts that are embedded in quotes also be ignored?

no idea, come to think of it i also want to put him on ignore too.

[MinnyMo]

One thing to consider in Knight vs Walker is that with Bayless and Calderon, minutes for development on the Raptors will be severely limited unless we move one of them. I'm not sure either Knight or Walker are good enough to justify moving Bayless and Calderon may be unmoveable or very difficult to move. And even if one is moved, the other will still command significant minutes.

So with that in mind, do you get the more polished player who doesn't need as many minutes for development in Kemba? Possibly.

Nope, take the younger Knight and let him develop behind some established NBA veterans, by the time hes Kemba's age, he will be a better player.

[MEDIC]

#1 Irving
#2 Williams
#3 Kanter
#4 Valanciunas
#5 Jones
#6 Walker
#7 Knight
#8 Vesley
#9 Burks
#10 Biyombo
#11 Motiejunas
#12 Thompson
#13 Leonard
#14 Hamilton
#15 Ferdette
#16 Morris
#17 Nogueira
#18 Nolan Smith

After 11 is a wildcard but I think my top 11 is solid.

Nice. That's pretty close to what I would have. Especially the top 7.

Of course things change after the workouts, but for now that looks really solid.

[MEDIC]

I agree that Knight is way ahead of Kemba at the same level of development. But at the same time, you cannot discount the development that Kemba has made in the last two years, expecting Knight to make the same leaps. Maybe he will but that is an uncertainty while Kemba's development over the last two years is a certainty.

For prospects, it is a difficult juggling act of balancing their current development and their future projected development that may or may not happen.

I'm a big fan of Kemba and think that his skills will translate quickly to the NBA. His ceiling may not be as high as Knight's but his floor is not as low either because of the development he has had in the last two years. With that said, I would not mind drafting Knight over Kemba if he was the BPA for the Raps pick.

Excellent post. Well said.

Edit: Originally quoted wrong post.

[Gold Dragon]

One thing to consider in Knight vs Walker is that with Bayless and Calderon, minutes for development on the Raptors will be severely limited unless we move one of them. I'm not sure either Knight or Walker are good enough to justify moving Bayless and Calderon may be unmoveable or very difficult to move. And even if one is moved, the other will still command significant minutes.

So with that in mind, do you get the more polished player who doesn't need as many minutes for development in Kemba? Possibly.

Nope, take the younger Knight and let him develop behind some established NBA veterans, by the time hes Kemba's age, he will be a better player.

Possibly. But I think in JJ and Bayless, we see how important minutes are in the first few years of NBA development. They are both essentially in their rookie seasons at the moment and the mistakes they are making shows it. I like Knight but am legitimately worried that we might not be the best situation for him to come into from a development perspective. Less concerned about that with Walker but for better or for worse, he is much closer to a finished product.

Don't get me wrong, I like Knight and think he has a good chance at a better career than Walker, but player development is far from an exact science and many factors need to be considered.

[Dr Positivity]

Bayless is not essentially in his rookie season. He's played in 206 games and 3631 minutes. What's a standard rookie season? DD played 22mpg, Ed 24.6. We'll give Bayless 24. 3631 / 24 = 151, two 75 game seasons. Bay is essentially ending his soph season.

There are a lot of players who feel like they have all the tools to be great, but just aren't - and a lot of times these players can go off at the end of a season. Great example is Terrence Williams. He sucked last year until the last 25 games. In March he dropped 14, 6 and 5, in April 14, 7 and 6 on better %s. I remember thinking that guy looks like a stud. Size, athleticism, handles. His bball IQ is just not good enough and he went back to sucking balls this year.

I'm not pencilling Bayless to be better than the complete scrub he looked like for 80% of this year, until he proves it over a full season

[Gold Dragon]

Bayless is not essentially in his rookie season. He's played in 206 games and 3631 minutes. What's a standard rookie season? DD played 22mpg, Ed 24.6. We'll give Bayless 24. 3631 / 24 = 151, two 75 game seasons. Bay is essentially ending his soph season.

There are a lot of players who feel like they have all the tools to be great, but just aren't - and a lot of times these players can go off at the end of a season. Great example is Terrence Williams. He sucked last year until the last 25 games. In March he dropped 14, 6 and 5, in April 14, 7 and 6 on better %s. I remember thinking that guy looks like a stud. Size, athleticism, handles. His bball IQ is just not good enough and he went back to sucking balls this year.

I'm not pencilling Bayless to be better than the complete scrub he looked like for 80% of this year, until he proves it over a full season

Sorry my mistake but it furthers my point. Bayless is in his third year in the NBA and arguably because of limited minutes, arguably because of BBIQ, has seen his development move slower than expected when he was drafted. Is Brandon Knight that much better of a prospect than Bayless when he was drafted to overcome the limited minutes that will be available to him if drafted by the Raptors? Two years from now, will the Raptors pass him along like Portland did with Bayless?

[Gold Dragon]

Just comparing Bayless and Knight's stats in college and they are remarkably similar with Bayless slighly edging out Knight in every category except assists and rebounds.

Bayless
SEASON TEAM MIN PTS REB AST TO A/T STL BLK PF FG% FT% 3P% PPS
2007-2008 ARIZ 35.7 19.7 2.7 4.0 3.0 1.36 1.0 .1 2.2 .458 .839 .407 1.57

Knight
SEASON TEAM MIN PTS REB AST TO A/T STL BLK PF FG% FT% 3P% PPS
2010-2011 UK 35.9 17.3 4.0 4.2 3.2 1.33 .7 .2 2.2 .423 .795 .377 1.28