Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 7

[5DOM]

Another key word, "reminiscent".

but it's not even close size-wise. Davis/Kanter does nothing to remind me of KG/Perkins, because one duo is comprised of two power-forward sized guys while the other is basically two-seven footers.

It is close though. Davis is 6'10" with a 7 foot wingspan. Kanter (at 17) was 6'10" 260 with a 7'1" wingspan. Garnett is about 7 feet with something like a 7'5" wingspan I'd assume just by comparing him to similar guys. Perkins is 6'10" 280 with a 7'4" wingspan. So, is it exact? No. Is it reminiscent? Yes. Obviously KG is an athletic freak. If you really want to nitpick go with something like Ibaka/Perkins. Davis/Kanter would be above average defensively and excellent offensively, as opposed to Ibaka/Perkins who are excellent defensively and below average offensively.

Kanter and Perkins I could see although Perkins probably has a couple of inches on Kanter's standing reach, but not Davis and Garnett. Like you said, Garnett's a freak while Davis is closer to the middle of the pack.

[Silk Wilkes]

but it's not even close size-wise. Davis/Kanter does nothing to remind me of KG/Perkins, because one duo is comprised of two power-forward sized guys while the other is basically two-seven footers.

It is close though. Davis is 6'10" with a 7 foot wingspan. Kanter (at 17) was 6'10" 260 with a 7'1" wingspan. Garnett is about 7 feet with something like a 7'5" wingspan I'd assume just by comparing him to similar guys. Perkins is 6'10" 280 with a 7'4" wingspan. So, is it exact? No. Is it reminiscent? Yes. Obviously KG is an athletic freak. If you really want to nitpick go with something like Ibaka/Perkins. Davis/Kanter would be above average defensively and excellent offensively, as opposed to Ibaka/Perkins who are excellent defensively and below average offensively.

Kanter and Perkins I could see although Perkins probably has a couple of inches on Kanter's standing reach, but not Davis and Garnett. Like you said, Garnett's a freak while Davis is closer to the middle of the pack.

Yea Ibaka fits better, his only advantage to Ed in length(pause) measurements is the 7'4" wingspan as compared to Ed's 7'0". Think OKC front court, then think of Ed and Enes.

[SkywalkerAC]

Another key word, "reminiscent".

but it's not even close size-wise. Davis/Kanter does nothing to remind me of KG/Perkins, because one duo is comprised of two power-forward sized guys while the other is basically two-seven footers.

It is close though. Davis is 6'10" with a 7 foot wingspan. Kanter (at 17) was 6'10" 260 with a 7'1" wingspan. Garnett is about 7 feet with something like a 7'5" wingspan I'd assume just by comparing him to similar guys. Perkins is 6'10" 280 with a 7'4" wingspan. So, is it exact? No. Is it reminiscent? Yes.

No, I'm sorry but size-wise, it is not reminiscent. One is one of the longest defensive frontcourt combos in the modern era while Davis/Kanter would be decidedly below average. A much better size comparison would be Villeneuva/Monroe.

[5DOM]

Yeah that sounds like the perfect comparison size-wise

[SkywalkerAC]

Yea Ibaka fits better, his only advantage to Ed in length(pause) measurements is the 7'4" wingspan as compared to Ed's 7'0". Think OKC front court, then think of Ed and Enes.

Still leaves you with both of their players having about 2 inches of reach on ours, not an insignificant amount.

Take a look at these NBA playoffs. How many teams have a 4/5 combo with less reach than Davis/Kanter? I'm counting 2 - Atlanta and New York. Maybe New Orleans if you're counting Landry (though Landry's SR seems wrong).

Kanter is 6'9 in socks, so is Ed Davis. Neither has especially long reach. It's an undersized 4/5 combo. KG/Perkins and Ibaka/Perkins are on the other end of the spectrum.

[TDotRep]

Didn't Kanter measure 6"11 at the Amare camp recently? Regardless a Davis Kanter pairing would be great for us moving forward, they compliment each other niceless and don't leave to many holes with them two as our 4/5.

[yayotube]

[

Kanter is 6'9 in socks, so is Ed Davis. Neither has especially long reach. It's an undersized 4/5 combo. KG/Perkins and Ibaka/Perkins are on the other end of the spectrum.

Just curious where you got that from? He measured 6'11 261 at the Lebron James Skills Academy in July 2010, after having just turned 18. So for all we know, he could've grown even more in this one year. We'll just have to wait for pre-draft measurements. And if you look at the Kentucky team photo, he is clearly taller than Josh Harrelson who's listed at 6'10.

[JYD]

in that video, kanter looks about one inch, tops, taller than T-jones and I would not be at all surprised if they had the same standing reach. basically he's 6'10 with a reach of 9', same as Davis. that is the concern. he sure does look sturdy but he's definitely no giant by NBA standards.

thing with Biyombo is he's got the frame to go with his length. he looks like he could easily be 260 of muscle so you've got a guy that can hold position and block shots despite being under 6'10. Kanter can hold position but not block. Val probably can't hold position and shotblocking is lacking despite his length but has potential to get to Pau Gasol's defensive level or so.

thanks to the tank we're in great position to land the top big man in this draft. to me, Biyombo is the swing for the fences pick and defense-oriented pick, Kanter the safe pick, and Val somewhere in between.

i don't think Biyombo's offensive game is a write-off either. in the shooting drills from the Hoops Summit you can see the jump-shot mechanics patterned from Hakeem's - unorthodox but far from broken. haven't seen his hook shot but anyone can develop that shot (even Andrea). he seems to have co-ordination and quickness so his offensive potential has a foundation to be built upon.

I'm curious how much Bismack has even worked on his frame - are those shoulders built in the weight room or is it all in the genes?

I pretty much agree with all you said here..though I might think Kanter's ceiling is a little lower than you do.

Regarding Biyombo, I'm not sure about the offense, but as long as he's not completely Reggie Evans-esque I would have no problem with him. He's such a huge target with those arms, as long as he's good at catching the ball on the move and holding onto it in traffic, he should be able to contribute adequately offensively just off rolls to the basket and putbacks. Apparently he has a lot of issues getting stripped before he goes up, though you'd think the habit of bringing the ball down is correctable.

To me it looks like he's pretty genetically gifted, I think there's quite a bit of room there for him to get stronger and more explosive.

[SkywalkerAC]

draftexpress says he measured at 6'10 in shoes at the hoops summit.
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Enes-Kanter-5168/

T-jones also looks taller than Harrelson in that picture, and he's not 6'10 so yeah, we're going to have to wait for the official measurements.

I'm not anti-Kanter. I'm just saying he'll be a short centre in the NBA, or a big power forward.

[yayotube]

There's no way Jones is taller than Harrelson in that pic. But the measurements will give us the answer we're looking for either way

[Silk Wilkes]

[

Kanter is 6'9 in socks, so is Ed Davis. Neither has especially long reach. It's an undersized 4/5 combo. KG/Perkins and Ibaka/Perkins are on the other end of the spectrum.

Just curious where you got that from? He measured 6'11 261 at the Lebron James Skills Academy in July 2010, after having just turned 18. So for all we know, he could've grown even more in this one year. We'll just have to wait for pre-draft measurements. And if you look at the Kentucky team photo, he is clearly taller than Josh Harrelson who's listed at 6'10.

He also looks about an inch taller than Eloy Vargas who is listed at 6'11" so I don't see how my comparison to the Ibaka/Perkins front court can't fit. In terms of playing style Davis/Kanter could be a better fit together as well. So, let's just say this, Enes is extremely similar to Kwame Brown size wise.

draftexpress says he measured at 6'10 in shoes at the hoops summit.
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Enes-Kanter-5168/

T-jones also looks taller than Harrelson in that picture, and he's not 6'10 so yeah, we're going to have to wait for the official measurements.

I'm not anti-Kanter. I'm just saying he'll be a short centre in the NBA, or a big power forward.

Terrence is at least an inch shorter than Harrellson in that pic, I don't know what you're looking at.

[TDotRep]

draftexpress says he measured at 6'10 in shoes at the hoops summit.
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Enes-Kanter-5168/

T-jones also looks taller than Harrelson in that picture, and he's not 6'10 so yeah, we're going to have to wait for the official measurements.

I'm not anti-Kanter. I'm just saying he'll be a short centre in the NBA, or a big power forward.

Over a year ago, the kid was just 17, he was just measured at 6"11 and by the looks of it I'd think he is.

[Moxie]

It's a different case. The worst part of Barne's game is his poor dribbling skills and that was displayed even during the All-American game and Jordan Brand game. He might have scored bunch of points in those games to make people believe he's legit, but scouts have already indicated his poor ball handle based on those games recap. So it wasn't a huge surprise to see him struggle in college, he just simply couldn't get by any defenders at all due to that poor handle.

It was a huge surprise. He was supposed to be Grant Hill. He was a pre-season all-american. Sure, his handle wasn't the best, but almost everyone was saying he'd improve it or that it wouldn't be an issue due to his craftyness and intangibles.
Now, with Kanter, there are mutterings about his size, his athleticism, his defence and the fact that he has lost a year and a half of absolutely invaluable competitive basketball development. But people are doing the same thing they did with Barnes, assuming that he'll be alright because of his craftiness and intangibles. The fact is, he hasn't been tested enough against worthy competition for us to make ANY assumptions about how good he is.

Were we to pick Kanter, he would, unlike Barnes, be jumping up not one but two tiers of competitive basketball, and unlike Barnes, he hasn't been playing for a year and a half.

I'm not saying he isn't a good prospect in this draft, but all these positive assumptions about him have to be tempered a bit. It is just as likely that his weaknesses get exposed big time as problems at the NBA level. Any assumption we make is based on very dated hype, and that kind of information is wrong an awful lot of the time.

[fredericklove]

[

Kanter is 6'9 in socks, so is Ed Davis. Neither has especially long reach. It's an undersized 4/5 combo. KG/Perkins and Ibaka/Perkins are on the other end of the spectrum.

Just curious where you got that from? He measured 6'11 261 at the Lebron James Skills Academy in July 2010, after having just turned 18. So for all we know, he could've grown even more in this one year. We'll just have to wait for pre-draft measurements. And if you look at the Kentucky team photo, he is clearly taller than Josh Harrelson who's listed at 6'10.

Wait wait...check out Kanter's heels, is he lifting his backheels up?!??!

[fredericklove]

Sure it could have been fluke for both players. But at least Biyombo produced in the second best league in the world, and played against some of the most athletic guys outside the NBA. I just don't know how Kanter faced a "challenging" competition when he basically hasn't played a single competitive game in a year and his best competition was Jared Sullinger in an AS game. In fact, Sullinger scored 22 points on 10/14 shooting himself, so if we want to base everything on one game, you could say Kanter's D is worrisome

Kanter played with the Turkish professional team, played in the euroleague and in the Turkish Basketball League, and was named MVP in 2009 FIBA Europe Under-18 Championship after avging 18.6 pts and 16.4 reb and led the Turkey to the bronze medal, he did that at the age of 17. In the following year 2009 he declined playing for the pros in europe and decided to play for high school in Cali, yeah obviously maybe he should have stick to the pro's level of competition in Europe instead of playing the suspicious high school level but hey his skill level didn't decline, instead he kept it at a high level and played well in the 2010 hoop summit. I don't think a year absence from basketball is going to eat your bball skills away. His track record right there proven he can keep playing at a high level even when not playing against the pros.

Don't forget he played better in the matchup against JONAS the GREAT during the 2009 u18 euro championship.

[Tofubeque]

Wait wait...check out Kanter's heels, is he lifting his backheels up?!??!

ZOOM AND ENHANCE

[ATLTimekeeper]

Maybe cool off talking about Kanter's size. It will be revealed later. I think size/wingspan rarely means anything, other than sometimes extreme length can lead to a larger development curve, just like athleticism. But, Kanter is skilled, he's also a big body. The skilled bigs that go high almost always pan out. If they bust, it's usually because of weight issues (Sweetney, Curry, May) or attitude issues (Curry, Cousins (?), Gooden) or just weak bodies (Brandon Wright, Skita). From most accounts, Kanter seems to be a hard worker with a good attitude, but again, that will be more closely examined as we get closer to the draft.

I think you'll find more raw athletic and/or long armed busts that went high, though.

Swift, Brown, Griffin, Diop, White, Darko, TT, POB, Sene, Yi, Thabeet, Hill,

[MEDIC]

draftexpress says he measured at 6'10 in shoes at the hoops summit.
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Enes-Kanter-5168/

T-jones also looks taller than Harrelson in that picture, and he's not 6'10 so yeah, we're going to have to wait for the official measurements.

I'm not anti-Kanter. I'm just saying he'll be a short centre in the NBA, or a big power forward.

Over a year ago, the kid was just 17, he was just measured at 6"11 and by the looks of it I'd think he is.

Yeah, the Amare Skills Academy was actually a few months after the Nike Hoops Summit. He was measured 6'11" in shoes. He was 17 at the time.

Who knows what the actual measurements were. For all we know, he could have grown since then. Remember when Bargnani was listed as 6'10" initially, but he was actually measured as a legit 7 feet?

Guess we'll have to wait until pre-draft.

[MEDIC]

This is interesting. Look at the height comparison between Harrelson & Cousins in 2010:



Then the comparison between Harrelson & Kanter in 2011:



Kanter & Cousins look very similar relation to Harrelson (Kanter actually looks bigger). Cousins was measured at 6' 9.5" at the pre-draft without shoes.

It think it's a pretty safe bet that Kanter will measure about 6'11" in shoes.

[bboyskinnylegs]

DeMarcus is 6'10.75" in shoes (of course, that's with a 292lb frame, 9'5" standing reach, and 7'5.75" wingspan), so it's certainly possible that Kanter is as tall as him now.

If you look next to DeMarcus, Orton is 6'9.5" in shoes as well, and he's certainly big enough to play C.