Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 7

[5DOM]

In any other draft he would be guaranteed out of the lottery but too bad in this useless draft his hype makes *people* believe he has top 5 potential.

What is it specifically you think he can't do? Guard NBA C's in the post? Be competent on offense? I'm curious as to what people who don't like him have to offer in terms of analytical criticism/concerns, based on the footage available and not heresay. Because saying stuff like the draft is weak and Biyombo is overhyped and you don't just play C with wingspan alone is not really offering much in the way of a convincing argument against.

Having doubts about a player is one thing, I have those about every player..I'd like to hear specifically what you think he won't be able to do at the NBA level.

How about, not fitting in with this team as well as other potential players available at our pick.

You are not really answering his question, because he was basically asking what makes you think he won't fit in with this team as well as others in the draft

[fredericklove]

Again I like Biyombo.


I know Davis and BB sound great on D....IF Bismack can keep this up in the NBA but what about offensively? Would he not just flatline an already talent lacking starting line up?

If we had some incredible scorers like Durant and Kobe on our wings and a PG that can utilize them like CP3 then sure I don't care that our post can't produce much but we don't so we need someone who can compliment Ed (who is already a good defender) but can score and rebound....I think Kanter is the better fit for the team.

A guy like Ben Wallace works because players like Rip, Billups and Sheed (skilled post that draftexpress even mentions would be needed) can spread the floor. We have no such dynamic so, I think yes we'd all love the grittiness of his play but the OVERALL effect may not produce what the team needs to get over the hump.

Ya, totally agree. We can't just depend on Bayless and DeMar on scoring when the big men can't score a lick of points, then no matter how great our interior defense becomes it won't compensate on the other end. If we've already had a lineup of Irving, Demar and Ed, then getting a bismack from the draft would be a good choice but as of now, no way.

[JYD]

A guy like Ben Wallace works because players like Rip, Billups and Sheed (skilled post that draftexpress even mentions would be needed) can spread the floor. We have no such dynamic so, I think yes we'd all love the grittiness of his play but the OVERALL effect may not produce what the team needs to get over the hump.

Firstly, I think he looks a bit better than Wallace offensively, simply because he can do stuff like get up and throw it down quickly (and with one hand)..something Ben Wallace has trouble with. That said, his offense is not something that concerns me at all, assuming he isn't Reggie Evans-level incompetent. If he can finish in close, that will alleviate all of my concerns there.

I'm looking at him as a potentially excellent defensive presence in the middle. Something which we have never had, in what..17 years? Coincidentally, we've done jack squat in 17 years. AD was the closest guy to being a great interior defender..he was pretty good but not great, but we also had our best years with him in there.

I think we need to add this kind of player, and it looks like the opportunity is there. As for playing with Davis, the defensive potential would be amazing, and offensively Davis has showed he can score pretty decently already and I think it's pretty safe to say he can be a fairly significant contributor there in the future and take some offensive load off the frontcourt. So in terms of team fit, I really have little concern.

[Silk Wilkes]

What is it specifically you think he can't do? Guard NBA C's in the post? Be competent on offense? I'm curious as to what people who don't like him have to offer in terms of analytical criticism/concerns, based on the footage available and not heresay. Because saying stuff like the draft is weak and Biyombo is overhyped and you don't just play C with wingspan alone is not really offering much in the way of a convincing argument against.

Having doubts about a player is one thing, I have those about every player..I'd like to hear specifically what you think he won't be able to do at the NBA level.

How about, not fitting in with this team as well as other potential players available at our pick.

You are not really answering his question, because he was basically asking what makes you think he won't fit in with this team as well as others in the draft

Ok, we would put a line-up on the floor consisting of Jerryd/Jose with DeMar, James and Ed. If you add Bismack to that you basically have one mediocre 3 point shooter and one excellent mid range shooter. You're essentially banking on everyone improving their outside shots or else the team will score 80-90 points a game. You can't play that style in the league anymore. Any team who plays zone defense on you will lock you down with limited effort. It doesn't work, a guy like Bismack doesn't provide the compliment our lineup needs.

[5DOM]

I think it's almost a given that we are going to suck again next year. We can grab one of the 100 good SF's next year IMO. I don't see the point in trying to make the best lineup for next season.

[JYD]

How about, not fitting in with this team as well as other potential players available at our pick.

That's it? So you're essentially saying he could be BPA, but that we should draft more for need? I'll stick with BPA philosophy.

[fredericklove]

I just don't believe he is worthy of a top 5 pick.

In any other draft he would be guaranteed out of the lottery but too bad in this useless draft his hype makes *people* believe he has top 5 potential.

Think he definitely would have gone before Udoh last year.

Gone before Udoh? Really, you're willing to take him over Ed Davis too. Good job.

[Silk Wilkes]

How about, not fitting in with this team as well as other potential players available at our pick.

That's it? So you're essentially saying he could be BPA, but that we should draft more for need? I'll stick with BPA philosophy.

Actually no, he's not the BPA so that's irrelevant. If he was the BPA I'd go with him every time.

[5DOM]

In any other draft he would be guaranteed out of the lottery but too bad in this useless draft his hype makes *people* believe he has top 5 potential.

Think he definitely would have gone before Udoh last year.

Gone before Udoh? Really, you're willing to take him over Ed Davis too. Good job.

I didn't mean I would take him over Davis (especially having seen his rookie season). I meant that the Warriors would most likely have picked Biyombo over Udoh.

[fredericklove]

I pray to god we have top 2 pick or else this draft board is going to turn real ugly.

[JYD]

How about, not fitting in with this team as well as other potential players available at our pick.

That's it? So you're essentially saying he could be BPA, but that we should draft more for need? I'll stick with BPA philosophy.

Actually no, he's not the BPA so that's irrelevant. If he was the BPA I'd go with him every time.

The reason you gave is that he doesn't fit as well, not that other players are our pick are clearly better.

Let's put it this way. I asked for criticism/analysis of him as a player specifically, you offered none. So you're saying he's likely to reach his potential, but that other players are better. His potential, based on his ACB performance, and Hoop Summit performance, seems to be a double double C who's an excellent defender/shotblocker. So which player will eclipse that?

[JamesNaismith]

A guy like Ben Wallace works because players like Rip, Billups and Sheed (skilled post that draftexpress even mentions would be needed) can spread the floor. We have no such dynamic so, I think yes we'd all love the grittiness of his play but the OVERALL effect may not produce what the team needs to get over the hump.

Firstly, I think he looks a bit better than Wallace offensively, simply because he can do stuff like get up and throw it down quickly (and with one hand)..something Ben Wallace has trouble with. That said, his offense is not something that concerns me at all, assuming he isn't Reggie Evans-level incompetent. If he can finish in close, that will alleviate all of my concerns there.

I'm looking at him as a potentially excellent defensive presence in the middle. Something which we have never had, in what..17 years? Coincidentally, we've done jack squat in 17 years. AD was the closest guy to being a great interior defender..he was pretty good but not great, but we also had our best years with him in there.

I think we need to add this kind of player, and it looks like the opportunity is there. As for playing with Davis, the defensive potential would be amazing, and offensively Davis has showed he can score pretty decently already and I think it's pretty safe to say he can be a fairly significant contributor there in the future and take some offensive load off the frontcourt. So in terms of team fit, I really have little concern.

Ok I still think your evaluation of his fit is a little bit short sighted.

Ed has shown flashes of improved post scoring but he's certainly not at the point of being considered a "skilled" big man as a place like draftexpress suggests would be needed and I would agree with. With Biyombo teams can pretty much leave him on defence to double and Ed isn't that "skilled" enough to warrant one....then look further out to our perimeter and it just gets worse.

You guys are in love with him like he's guaranteed to be like Ben but of course that isn't a guarantee and Bismack is not an explosive athlete like a Wallace or Howard so really who knows how that will translate to the athletic game of the NBA.

I also have a hard time believing with a young player that is that aggressive at looking to block shots but lacks the athleticism won't have some trouble with fouls. I don't think it's too crazy to guess that he won't average 4+ blocks and that with his desire to do so he might find himself in a bit of foul trouble....I personally don't want a kid who becomes a rotation (albeit a great one) as my top 5 pick....I rather take Kanter who looks like he can be a taller version of something like Horford or Love personally.

Will he become that? Who knows just like this Ben Wallace thing but I think it's more probable as his game is actually closer to them then Biyombo's is to Wallace's.

[Silk Wilkes]

That's it? So you're essentially saying he could be BPA, but that we should draft more for need? I'll stick with BPA philosophy.

Actually no, he's not the BPA so that's irrelevant. If he was the BPA I'd go with him every time.

The reason you gave is that he doesn't fit as well, not that other players are our pick are clearly better.

Let's put it this way. I asked for criticism/analysis of him as a player specifically, you offered none. So you're saying he's likely to reach his potential, but that other players are better. His potential, based on his ACB performance, and Hoop Summit performance, seems to be a double double C who's an excellent defender/shotblocker. So which player will eclipse that?

He's raw offensively (50% fail already), he might be 25, he's too small to play Centre (all you say is he has potential to add weight, that's not good enough), much of his potential is based on one Nike Hoop Summit performance, etc.

But I'll just save this thread for future reference. You think he's the BPA? That's fine, but I beg to differ. I would never pick a guy like him top-5 and obviously a ton of people agree with me. Dare to be different though, if you like him that's your opinion. I gave my reasoning why I wouldn't pick him and you said it's not valid, that's fine.

[5DOM]

Biyombo looked really athletic to me...

[JYD]

Whoa, whoa, he's not athletic? Go and watch the hoop summit game where he's getting up well above the rim throwing dunks down. or blocking shots with his elbow, or blocking reverses after missing the initial block. I think that description of the level of athleticism you attributed to him is patently false.

As for the foul trouble, he isn't showing it at all in ABC league. Not even close. So I don't see how that is a concern for this player specifically, if anything he's showing signs that he plays in complete control as a defender/shotblocker.

[5DOM]

He's raw offensively (50% fail already)

True, but he has the potential to score in double digits.

he might be 25

See DraftExpress article

he's too small to play Centre (all you say is he has potential to add weight, that's not good enough

He's got great length even for an NBA C, good frame, and body fat of 4.8% while weighing 240 lbs.

much of his potential is based on one Nike Hoop Summit performance, etc

So is Kanter's. He dominated U18 Euro championship while Biyombo's been productive in the ACB.

[JamesNaismith]

Biyombo looked really athletic to me...

Quick off his feet sure....but not athletic.


I know I'm basing that more off of agility but that had a really big effect on what Wallace could do as evidenced by his current state. I just think a lot of NBA centers can also use those long limbs against him to draw fouls reaching for blocks. You really believe his lack of explosiveness might not make him prone to reach and foul?

[Silk Wilkes]

He's raw offensively (50% fail already)

True, but he has the potential to score in double digits.

he might be 25

See DraftExpress article

he's too small to play Centre (all you say is he has potential to add weight, that's not good enough

He's got great length even for an NBA C, good frame, and body fat of 4.8% while weighing 240 lbs.

much of his potential is based on one Nike Hoop Summit performance, etc

So is Kanter's. He dominated U18 Euro championship while Biyombo's been productive in the ACB.

Biyombo is that typical potential pick that either makes you look like a genius or a complete joke. Kanter is more of a meat & potatoes guy who has a somewhat polished offensive game as well as a nose for the ball. As of right now, if it's a toss-up between Kanter and Biyombo, the choice is Kanter hands down for the Raptors.

[JYD]

He's raw offensively (50% fail already), he might be 25, he's too small to play Centre (all you say is he has potential to add weight, that's not good enough), much of his potential is based on one Nike Hoop Summit performance, etc.

.

ok finally we get an answer. You think he will be horrible offensively. Personally I disagree, but that's fine.

Regarding age, you're throwing around something put out by one exec over a week ago (without any legitimate basis and for reasons which could easily be self serving). Go read the DX article about the x-rays taken recently in Spain that indicate he wasn't even finished growing when they were taken.

I also disagree he's too small to play C, I think he looks pretty capable of holding his man on the block now, and can also get stronger.

The comment about one performance being a reason against him is hardly an argument though, if anything the performance is an argument for him.

[5DOM]

I seriously don't know where you are going with Biyombo's supposed lack of explosiveness.