JJ contract does it still look so bad?

myrak433 · Post #1 » by **myrak433** » Sat Apr 23, 2011 12:51 pm

before you all rip me a new one, yes I believe JJ still makes too much. but that isn't his fault. why would anyone turn down more money? but he is most definitely not the worst contract in the NBA. he is highly productive. and if we didn't have JJ right now we would not be leading the Magic 2-1 in this series. I hope you JJ haters pay attention to how much defensive Orlando throws at JJ every time he touches the ball. then I want you to imagine anyone else on this team getting doubled and or tripled like that. they only person on this team that can handle that much defensive pressure is JJ.

what I am saying is that if we didn't have JJ all the Magic would have to do is double JC and no one else would be able to score. but with JJ drawing the double teams and still scoring some, JC, and Kirk are either singled covered or open.

If we had one more person that you had to double JJ would look even better and could actually earn his contract.

Ruhiel · Post #2 » by **Ruhiel** » Sat Apr 23, 2011 1:07 pm

Immediate gratification versus Longterm gratification. No one blames JJ its the Front Offices Fault. They're are not distributing the money right. It's not only the fans reaction, Many GMs belive that the Hawks will rather blow up the team then pay the luxury tax. And they are circling like vultures ready to swoop up a player from an above .500 franchise at a discount because of mismanaged funds.

Unless the Hawks make it to the Conference Finals then this is could very well be this teams last stand.

Post #3 » by **dms269** » Sat Apr 23, 2011 1:26 pm

myrak433 wrote:before you all rip me a new one, yes I believe JJ still makes too much. but that isn't his fault. why would anyone turn down more money?

I have a problem with that statement. I do believe it is his fault. He was the one who hinted that if he didn't get a max offer from the Hawks he was gonna leave. If he didn't make those statements then he probably wouldn't be paid the max. And about the question of "why would anyone turn down mroe money" the answer is simple, to help your team sign and retain better ball players and to make it easier for your team to improve. Look at what the Miami guys did. Turn down more money for a chance at a ring. Chipper has done it for the Braves. He has restructured his contract to help the Braves sign guys. You see it all the time in college to, guys giving up their scholarships so the team can bring on a better player (Mississippi State's Varnardo did it so they could bring in Sidney, granted he didn't play that year).

FCNATL85 · Post #4 » by **FCNATL85** » Sat Apr 23, 2011 1:42 pm

I agree on that point. Look at MInnesota with KG ... and joe is not even closed from being KG.

myrak433 · Post #5 » by **myrak433** » Sat Apr 23, 2011 1:45 pm

uga_dawgs24 wrote:
myrak433 wrote:before you all rip me a new one, yes I believe JJ still makes too much. but that isn't his fault. why would anyone turn down more money?

I have a problem with that statement. I do believe it is his fault. He was the one who hinted that if he didn't get a max offer from the Hawks he was gonna leave. If he didn't make those statements then he probably wouldn't be paid the max. And about the question of "why would anyone turn down mroe money" the answer is simple, to help your team sign and retain better ball players and to make it easier for your team to improve. Look at what the Miami guys did. Turn down more money for a chance at a ring. Chipper has done it for the Braves. He has restructured his contract to help the Braves sign guys. You see it all the time in college to, guys giving up their scholarships so the team can bring on a better player (Mississippi State's Varnardo did it so they could bring in Sidney, granted he didn't play that year).

this whole post is asinine. first Miami guys you speak of mainly Lebron and Wade knew they would make up the difference in the money they left on the table with endorsements. JJ doesn't have the star power to make up the difference so he got his money up front. and Chipper sux, so he really makes too much money now for his production on the field.

Ruhiel · Post #6 » by **Ruhiel** » Sat Apr 23, 2011 1:58 pm

Wow, you ask people not to rip you a new one and then you go and rip somebody else.

Point remains if this team fails then they have few options to improve without paying luxury. And other teams our waiting to grab the Hawks core players.

It was a complacency move. Imagine if we hadn't traded our picks and still had Bibby at PG.

As long as the Hawks are winning it's all good. But we might lose a player this offseason and take a step back. So then the Front Office's contract will be the guilty culprit.

myrak433 · Post #7 » by **myrak433** » Sat Apr 23, 2011 3:33 pm

didn't mean to come off like that. I just don't think you can compare the Miami Lebron and Waden situation to JJ's and his contract. Especially when Lebron could have taken more money to stay in Clev. but he opted to take less to play with Wade and Bosh. would you guys respect JJ more had he taken less money to go to Chi to play with Rose?

Ruhiel · Post #8 » by **Ruhiel** » Sat Apr 23, 2011 4:38 pm

myrak433 wrote:didn't mean to come off like that. I just don't think you can compare the Miami Lebron and Wade situation to JJ's and his contract. Especially when Lebron could have taken more money to stay in Clev. but he opted to take less to play with Wade and Bosh. would you guys respect JJ more had he taken less money to go to Chi to play with Rose?

Wow had he gone to Chicago.. but had he taken a Carlos Boozer type dealpoint of him t

In the NBA, only players with at least eight years of service time and four with the same team are eligible for a no-trade clause. Joe is in a special class, he was eligible.
Had he taken a no trade clause and less money/incentives. We would have room for another player. As is we stand to lose Jamal/Smith this offseason.

Had Joey left for per se Chicago. They would be capped but have a slightly better starting lineup. Marvin might be a less iso-centric big 2, Personally I would like to see him go head to head with Joe

)
We would have cap room to sign a younger center next offseason to play the big lineup full time. Dwight, Oden, etc.

Would Joe be respected more? As of right now we are leading Van Gundy's respected but highly flawed 1 in 4 out offense.

Ask the question again if the Jason Collins lineup is enough to beat Miami/Chicago/Boston.
Personally, I think we can beat the Celts but I have doubts against Miami and even Chicago after what Rose and co did to the Hawks at home.

There is no guarantee Drew stays with the big consistent rebounding lineup anyways.

myrak433 · Post #9 » by **myrak433** » Sat Apr 23, 2011 7:51 pm

Ruhiel wrote:
myrak433 wrote:didn't mean to come off like that. I just don't think you can compare the Miami Lebron and Wade situation to JJ's and his contract. Especially when Lebron could have taken more money to stay in Clev. but he opted to take less to play with Wade and Bosh. would you guys respect JJ more had he taken less money to go to Chi to play with Rose?

Wow had he gone to Chicago.. but had he taken a Carlos Boozer type dealpoint of him t

In the NBA, only players with at least eight years of service time and four with the same team are eligible for a no-trade clause. Joe is in a special class, he was eligible.
Had he taken a no trade clause and less money/incentives. We would have room for another player. As is we stand to lose Jamal/Smith this offseason.

Had Joey left for per se Chicago. They would be capped but have a slightly better starting lineup. Marvin might be a less iso-centric big 2, Personally I would like to see him go head to head with Joe )
We would have cap room to sign a younger center next offseason to play the big lineup full time. Dwight, Oden, etc.

Would Joe be respected more? As of right now we are leading Van Gundy's respected but highly flawed 1 in 4 out offense.

Ask the question again if the Jason Collins lineup is enough to beat Miami/Chicago/Boston.
Personally, I think we can beat the Celts but I have doubts against Miami and even Chicago after what Rose and co did to the Hawks at home.

There is no guarantee Drew stays with the big consistent rebounding lineup anyways.

we don't need the line up with Collins for the Celtics or Miami. we don't really need it for chicago.

Ruhiel · Post #10 » by **Ruhiel** » Sat Apr 23, 2011 8:11 pm

myrak433 wrote:we don't need the line up with Collins for the Celtics or Miami. we don't really need it for chicago.

I beg to differ.
Smith is too strong for Pierce down low. Horford can contest and shoot over Garnett better than Josh.

Miami has killed the Hawks this season on a steady diet of Lebron versus Marvin, and Bosh vs Josh. I think we should go to a more traditional lineup rather than the Woody lineup that had us get beat by 25 points last year, which by the way was the worst playoff loss margin in 70 years of NBA basketball.

If it's broke, fix it!

geeman · Post #11 » by **geeman** » Sun Apr 24, 2011 7:15 pm

THIS IS SO BAD !!!!! WHY DIDN'T WE JUST LET THE MARKET SET THE PRICE? WE STILL COULD HAVE PAID HIM MORE THEN ANYONE ELSE. I like Joe, but he's just not worth nearly what we're paying him and it looks like we're screwed in the near future!! I think we're so close!!! A player or two away from
( maybe a coach) But that just a dream Now! :cry:

myrak433 · Post #12 » by **myrak433** » Sun Apr 24, 2011 9:03 pm

geeman wrote:THIS IS SO BAD !!!!! WHY DIDN'T WE JUST LET THE MARKET SET THE PRICE? WE STILL COULD HAVE PAID HIM MORE THEN ANYONE ELSE. I like Joe, but he's just not worth nearly what we're paying him and it looks like we're screwed in the near future!! I think we're so close!!! A player or two away from
( maybe a coach) But that just a dream Now!

I dont think you guys get it. no one is going to choose Atlanta to come and play. No-one. we tried that a few times and all the free agents used Atlanta as a pawn to get more money somewhere else. JJ is the only free agent that ever wanted to be a Hawk. That has not changed. so what free agent would we get if we had not re-signed JJ? You think Chris Paul would come? D. Williams? Dwight? Who? they may come to play with JJ( maybe) but most definitely they would not come without JJ here!

whether you guys like it or not JJ is our best player and the only player that free agents would want to come and play with. all we need is to get a Center. we need to move Marvin for what ever center we can get. Marvin to LAC Kaman to Atlanta. would work. then get some more free agents. Chuck Hayes, Tayshaun Prince, T-Mac, M. Redd, and maybe J.R. Smith.

Kirk/ Teague
JJ/JC
Smoove/JRSmith
Horford/Hayes
Kaman/ZaZA

or

TMac/ Kirk
JJ/ Redd
Smith/ Wilkens
Horford/ Hayes
Kaman/ZaZa

johnny878 · Post #13 » by **johnny878** » Mon Apr 25, 2011 2:26 am

well considering we could of had jamal crawford at a fraction of the cost of Joe, and crawford is a flat out better offensive player then joe... yeah, i would say its that bad.

what do you think it would of taken to extend crawford before the season? 4 years 40 mil? seems alot better then six years 120 mil.

Bucked19 · Post #14 » by **Bucked19** » Tue Apr 26, 2011 9:33 pm

johnny878 wrote:well considering we could of had jamal crawford at a fraction of the cost of Joe, and crawford is a flat out better offensive player then joe... yeah, i would say its that bad.

what do you think it would of taken to extend crawford before the season? 4 years 40 mil? seems alot better then six years 120 mil.

Joe is averaging 20pts,6.5rbs and 4ast overall that's better than Jamal.Also if you haven't noticed Jamal takes a lot of tough dumb shots.

WD · Post #15 » by WD » Tue Apr 26, 2011 9:38 pm

JJ's contract is still a terrible contract for the hawks now and in the future. I do not believe he was going anywhere. In addition, this team will have a problem attracting anybody in the future.

He would have taken less to stay, no one was beating down his door. He signed before Lebron and Bosh did. Had the hawks just waited 1 or 2 more days, the market would have been set and the hawks would have saved a lot.

Ruhiel · Post #16 » by **Ruhiel** » Tue May 3, 2011 2:52 am

WD wrote:JJ's contract is still a terrible contract for the hawks now and in the future. I do not believe he was going anywhere. In addition, this team will have a problem attracting anybody in the future.

He would have taken less to stay, no one was beating down his door. He signed before Lebron and Bosh did. Had the hawks just waited 1 or 2 more days, the market would have been set and the hawks would have saved a lot.

not to be premature, but against all odds Joe shot 67% on 18 shots. Gr8 team win. I still think Hawks stand better chance against Boston than Miami but wow if we could continue beating Bulls.
Rick Sund's experience/lack of moves, bringing in Hinrich (is Hinrich tutoring Teague)
idk the Bulls looked extremely mortal.

evildallas · Post #17 » by **evildallas** » Tue May 3, 2011 9:21 am

On the subject of Joe's contract: the only time he can earn his contract is the post-season. If he can string together a few more games like he did Monday then he'll likely elevate to true star status which he's never had before (late bloomer). There is a difference between best performer on a mediocre team and player who performs on the big stage. Still a long way to go before he's a ticket selling star, but he's done more than I expected based on past results.

The other thing is now there are some other contracts that while smaller are looking a lot worse. Most of them are in Orlando. Hedo, Gilbert, and Chris Duhon are all tied into deals that hurt their ability to change. I'm thinking those deals are considered worse than Joe these days.

Ruhiel · Post #18 » by **Ruhiel** » Tue May 3, 2011 1:29 pm

Derrick Rose, Duncan, and Ginobili too had star status. Status doesn't matter (unless its ref bias) just go and play.

Post #19 » by **wizardg** » Tue May 3, 2011 3:57 pm

Hawks had to pay Joe if they wanted to be a player in the post season.

The contracts that hurt them were/are Bibby, Marvin and Zaza. They over paid for all of them more so than Joe. Those three contracts add up to a max contract - for what!

Flip Murray was as effecticve maybe more than Bibby. Mo Evans was as effective as Marvin - he had a smaller skill set but he was smarter and consistent. Who started against the Magic? Twin not Zaza. To get away from Bibby they gave away Jordan Crawford. That hurts.

Agains signing Bibby, Marvin, and Zaza was the mistake each has proven to be worth about 40% of their salaries.
If you look at all the player who have recieved max contracts in the last five years Joe is better than a lot of them. People forget about the Ray allens, JO's, Vinces, Kirlenko's, Mcgradys etc.

f-town · Post #20 » by **f-town** » Wed May 4, 2011 5:06 pm

no one seemed to notice that there was at least 3 or 4 teams ready to pay Joe Johnson max money at the drop of a hat...and since we were capped out, even if he signed elsewhere we wouldnt have had the money to sign any other big player

they really didnt have much choice but to sign him

Go Hawks!