I See The Glass Half Empty .... Sorry

reyray2k · Post #41 » by **reyray2k** » Sat Apr 23, 2011 4:24 pm

This is beginning to look like the maurbary era. we bring in a star coming into the half of the season looking like the future is bright, then get into the playoffs and get swept in the 1st round. Then comes the off season we bring over all this new personals with no luck, well ladies and gentleman we are in the same scenario. Amare is aging and billups should retire no one wants him and the coach haven't proven he doesn't need nash for his system to work. Ok the knicks may be a .500 team next season but they will never be one of the elites.

AS LONG AS DOLAN IS RUNNING
NY BASKETBALL IS A JOKE!!

ray_ray1 · Post #42 » by **ray_ray1** » Sat Apr 23, 2011 4:28 pm

reyray2k wrote:This is beginning to look like the maurbary era. we bring in a star coming into the half of the season looking like the future is bright, then get into the playoffs and get swept in the 1st round. Then comes the off season we bring over all this new personals with no luck, well ladies and gentleman we are in the same scenario. Amare is aging and billups should retire no one wants him and the coach haven't proven he doesn't need nash for his system to work. Ok the knicks may be a .500 team next season but they will never be one of the elites.

AS LONG AS DOLAN IS RUNNING
NY BASKETBALL IS A JOKE!!

Amare is aging?

Where do these clowns come from?

I know we're all upset, but settle down and be smart, Billups hurt his knee, Amare hurt his back, we arent' a deep team and a big core of the team was traded in the Melo deal.

We weren't going to do anything this year anyway, and especially without Billups and a healthy Amare.

Stop blaming the coach, stop with the stupid trades, like let's get Nash, he's better than Billups, when Billups is 4 years younger than him.

We should know by now the Melo move was a precursor for next year. We need to retool and get better pieces around these players for next year and beyond.

It just sucks Billups and Amare got hurt, both healthy, we can make a nice little run.

NYKat · Post #43 » by **NYKat** » Sat Apr 23, 2011 4:28 pm

2ksports wrote: It was demoralizing and I can't say I didn't see a blowout in game 3 coming.

I did but was too scared to actually call it...

I've learned to expect the unexpected with this team, always...

that said, we probably win game 4, go back to Boston and end the season in game 5.

dk7th · Post #44 » by **dk7th** » Sat Apr 23, 2011 4:28 pm

Knicks_Fan2 wrote:
dk7th wrote:
the reason why amar'e wore down is two-fold: first, you mention that he is an athletic specimen. i disagree-- he is weak in his legs and his rear end for an alleged big man. he is also not his listed height, he's closer to 6'9". he is an undersized power forward-- really a small forward-- and his entire game demonstrates this, from the inability to box out effectively on defense to his lack of a low-post game, preferring to work on his outside midrange jump shot than post moves. he did not have to work so hard with nash feeding him perfect passes on his rolls to the hoop. he has more of a small forward's game, but his ability to finish at the rim due in major part to steve nash's incredible in point passing, gives most people the illusion of his being a power forward.

this leads to the second point: he had to work much harder to get his points and was less efficient in doing so. part of that dynamic was his consistently driving to the hoop against two or three defenders, absorbing physical punishment and expending much more energy than he has ever had to before. if he had worked more assiduously on his passing game he would have been able to make his teammates better and conserved his body for the post-season and the second half for that matter.

posters who insist that amar'e had to put the team on his back are missing the point about amar'e. he didn't have to put the team on his back by taking on the scoring load-- it would have been far more effective if he had worked on getting others involved and making others better to whatever degree he is capable. he is far from striking the right balance and may never be able to. if he wants to help his team succeed next year he must absolutely work on his passing game to whatever degree that is possible to improve at this late stage of his straight from high school career.

in spite of his inability to defend adequately and create genuine chemistry, i am very happy that he is a knick. after all, we acquired him for cash and did not really give up any human capital to do so. that is exactly how players of his ilk should be acquired.

Was waiting for the implied melo trade jab. Thank you for not disappointing me.

i am not the only poster who did not like the trade, so how about being a tinge more charitable and respond to the other 99% of my post?

Post #45 » by **NoLayupRule** » Sat Apr 23, 2011 4:28 pm

Sack up man,

Jesus you fold like a lawn chair.

W have two players who are top 2-3 at their position and this summer we will build a team around them

Go be a fan of another team if you can't support this one

This original post is a pathetic whine.
Comparing Carmelo to Marbury is downright lazy, ignorant and embarrassing

Post #46 » by **Thugger HBC** » Sat Apr 23, 2011 4:29 pm

knicks742 wrote:I will repeat once again, we need vets not young players. Young players need time to develop, get used to the game. That is simply time we do not have when you have Melo and Ama're and possibly Billups on your team. We are a win now team whether people like it or not. This year's pick should be traded to get a vet and hopefully we can get some vets to come here next year and play, otherwise, same mess as this year.

I'm surprised you took this angle, sounds like the 2004 Lakers approach.

Most of the teams in the playoffs have young players and in alot of cases that young players is making tremendous impact.

We are watching Rondo dismantle us.

Rose is balling.

Miami big three minus wade is just entering their prime.

Denver, OKC, NO. Memphis?

Indy, Philly, are on the younger side.

Vets don't equal success.

Building a team that compliments the direction you wanna go does, whether that is comprised with vets or young players.

2ksports · Post #47 » by **2ksports** » Sat Apr 23, 2011 4:34 pm

Thugger HBC wrote:
knicks742 wrote:I will repeat once again, we need vets not young players. Young players need time to develop, get used to the game. That is simply time we do not have when you have Melo and Ama're and possibly Billups on your team. We are a win now team whether people like it or not. This year's pick should be traded to get a vet and hopefully we can get some vets to come here next year and play, otherwise, same mess as this year.

I'm surprised you took this angle, sounds like the 2004 Lakers approach.

Most of the teams in the playoffs have young players and in alot of cases that young players is making tremendous impact.

We are watching Rondo dismantle us.

Rose is balling.

Miami big three minus wade is just entering their prime.

Denver, OKC, NO. Memphis?

Indy, Philly, are on the younger side.

Vets don't equal success.

Building a team that compliments the direction you wanna go does, whether that is comprised with vets or young players.

Good point. You can't just throw in old people (Anthony Carter), but I do think Veterans are needed though, unless you get special young players who don't freeze up in the last 2 minutes.

Post #48 » by **knicks742** » Sat Apr 23, 2011 4:35 pm

Thugger HBC wrote:
knicks742 wrote:I will repeat once again, we need vets not young players. Young players need time to develop, get used to the game. That is simply time we do not have when you have Melo and Ama're and possibly Billups on your team. We are a win now team whether people like it or not. This year's pick should be traded to get a vet and hopefully we can get some vets to come here next year and play, otherwise, same mess as this year.

I'm surprised you took this angle, sounds like the 2004 Lakers approach.

Most of the teams in the playoffs have young players and in alot of cases that young players is making tremendous impact.

We are watching Rondo dismantle us.

Rose is balling.

Miami big three minus wade is just entering their prime.

Denver, OKC, NO. Memphis?

Indy, Philly, are on the younger side.

Vets don't equal success.

Building a team that compliments the direction you wanna go does, whether that is comprised with vets or young players.

When I say vets I dont mean 30 year old players, I mean guys that have been in the league. For example, Melo is a vet but he is a young guy, he is only 26. The teams you mentioned are being led by guys that have been in the league for a couple of years and have had a chance to develop in the league.

I should have been clearer I just dont think we have the time to wait for a rookie or first year player to go through his natural progression that takes 2 - 3 years since we are looking at a 5 year window with Amare and Melo.

Post #49 » by **NoLayupRule** » Sat Apr 23, 2011 4:35 pm

God, some of you people have no view of the game beyond the single game you just watched. No view of the team beyond what's right in front of you this moment.

A) we have a pair of superstars that we will build around this summer
B) we are out classed by our opponent and injured as hell, take this team for what it is
C) mike isn't the coach for this team forever but he's not as bad as made out to be either. Half of what he's doing as a coach is trying to patch holes. Some compare that to Doc who's coaching a championship team with 4 superstars, 3 top level leaders and years of chemistry. Yet they compare that to Mike's situation as if it's equal ground.

Perspective on your own team is important. It's a long road people.

TrueWarrior · Post #50 » by **TrueWarrior** » Sat Apr 23, 2011 4:36 pm

thisiskoz wrote:
knicks742 wrote:I will repeat once again, we need vets not young players. Young players need time to develop, get used to the game. That is simply time we do not have when you have Melo and Ama're and possibly Billups on your team. We are a win now team whether people like it or not. This year's pick should be traded to get a vet and hopefully we can get some vets to come here next year and play, otherwise, same mess as this year.

unfortunately few are able to understand this... they think every young player will be the second coming... and good quality veteran role players grow on trees...

i really hope to be wrong about this... but the sheer number of extremely talented nba players that have come and gone having never won a ring tells me that having a couple of great players simply isnt enough to get to the promised land...

if building a team was as easy as some on this board claim it is... most every gm should be fired because man.. they sure dont get it...

Yea Im in the draft thread all the time talking up prospects, but there really isnt going to be any sure fire guy at our spot that will no doubt be able to come right in and make a difference. Maybe Justin Harper, Jimmer, Tristan Thompson, one of the Morris twins, or whatever but these guys can just as easily bust as they can become good role players. We need sure NBA ready role players ASAP, and cant afford to wait around for some young buck to develop even if they're a 4 year senior.

I expect us to trade our draft pick too along with maybe Fields. They're our last remaining assets left. The thing is this draft is very weak with all the players pulling out, so Im not sure what we could possibly get for the pick, but who knows.

But yes the people talking like its so easy to build a championship team are nuts. This is going to take a sh*t ton of sheer luck on alot of things.

thisiskoz · Post #51 » by **thisiskoz** » Sat Apr 23, 2011 4:40 pm

wow.. theres a fundamental difference between veteran players and "old" players... i dont think anyone is advocating bringing in everyone on their last legs like the 04 lakers... but what we do need is players with experience... again were a win now team with amare and melo... we dont have the luxury of bringing young guys along as they gain experience...

some people mentioned some young players...well those players have all been to the playoffs numerous times already in their short careers... they are veterans... they have been there before... there isnt some age requirement that makes you a veteran... its experience...

and right now unfortunately... most of our experience is sitting on the bench... whether because of injury... or that dantoni doesnt want to play them...

edit... i see i was already beaten to the punch with this point...

Post #52 » by **Deeeez Knicks** » Sat Apr 23, 2011 4:45 pm

TrueWarrior wrote:But yes the people talking like its so easy to build a championship team are nuts. This is going to take a sh*t ton of sheer luck on alot of things.

That is all true.

But it was just as true before the trade.

yaboynyp · Post #53 » by **yaboynyp** » Sat Apr 23, 2011 4:46 pm

NoLayupRule wrote:God, some of you people have no view of the game beyond the single game you just watched. No view of the team beyond what's right in front of you this moment.

A) we have a pair of superstars that we will build around this summer
B) we are out classed by our opponent and injured as hell, take this team for what it is
C) mike isn't the coach for this team forever but he's not as bad as made out to be either. Half of what he's doing as a coach is trying to patch holes. Some compare that to Doc who's coaching a championship team with 4 superstars, 3 top level leaders and years of chemistry. Yet they compare that to Mike's situation as if it's equal ground.

Perspective on your own team is important. It's a long road people.

Nolayuprule FTW!! Dayum good post, and right on target..

Post #54 » by **knicks742** » Sat Apr 23, 2011 4:51 pm

Btw Landry Fields is a perfect example of what I mean. I think most of us agree that the guy has talent but it's going to take some time for him to figure out his role in this team. It's unfair of us to demand him to be a top playoff performer in his rookie season or even next year, it's only fair to give him 2 - 3 years to get there. The question is, do we have those 2 - 3 years to let him get there?

thisiskoz · Post #55 » by **thisiskoz** » Sat Apr 23, 2011 4:54 pm

Deeeez Knicks wrote:
TrueWarrior wrote:But yes the people talking like its so easy to build a championship team are nuts. This is going to take a sh*t ton of sheer luck on alot of things.

That is all true.

But it was just as true before the trade.

and whats the point of this comment? i dont think anyone before the trade was talking like we were just a handful of simple moves away from being a contender... but they are now...

look at a team like boston... where would they have been without contributions from guys like rondo... and davis... and perkins... talent they were able to retain while building their star core... if you think guys like douglas and walker and williams are going to be key cogs in our championship run... well more power to you... i tend to think were going to need more talent... yes boston brought in a couple of role players... and did trade perkins this year... but the majority of their core is the same as it was day 1 after the trades made to acquire ray and kg...

Post #56 » by **Deeeez Knicks** » Sat Apr 23, 2011 4:55 pm

knicks742 wrote:Btw Landry Fields is a perfect example of what I mean. I think most of us agree that the guy has talent but it's going to take some time for him to figure out his role in this team. It's unfair of us to demand him to be a top playoff performer in his rookie season or even next year, it's only fair to give him 2 - 3 years to get there. The question is, do we have those 2 - 3 years to let him get there?

This is what I don't get. Why wouldn't we have 2-3 years? And what is so bad if it takes us 2 years to become a really legit contender?

Amare is 28 and Melo is 26.

If the complaint is that Amare will break down in 2 years, then we are/were F'd no matter what moves or trades we made or did not make.

2ksports · Post #57 » by **2ksports** » Sat Apr 23, 2011 4:58 pm

knicks742 wrote:Btw Landry Fields is a perfect example of what I mean. I think most of us agree that the guy has talent but it's going to take some time for him to figure out his role in this team. It's unfair of us to demand him to be a top playoff performer in his rookie season or even next year, it's only fair to give him 2 - 3 years to get there. The question is, do we have those 2 - 3 years to let him get there?

Whoever plays the 2 spot in crunch minutes must be deadly from 3. If Fields can improve his 3pt shooting, I think he will be able to continue as starter.

Knicker23 · Post #58 » by **Knicker23** » Sat Apr 23, 2011 4:59 pm

Amare just happened to get 'hurt' at the wrong time... I don't know how you can look at his game 1 performance and think that he's lacking anything.

I think he sort of mailed it in once we were a near sure thing for the playoffs, and once Melo got here - probably because he was dead tired from carrying this team.

Starting the season next year along side Melo will take the said weight of him having to put up so much each game, and will allow him to be better for the duration.... Nothing "happened" to Amare in the second half of the season that physically changed him

Post #59 » by **Thugger HBC** » Sat Apr 23, 2011 4:59 pm

knicks742 wrote:
When I say vets I dont mean 30 year old players, I mean guys that have been in the league. For example, Melo is a vet but he is a young guy, he is only 26. The teams you mentioned are being led by guys that have been in the league for a couple of years and have had a chance to develop in the league.

I should have been clearer I just dont think we have the time to wait for a rookie or first year player to go through his natural progression that takes 2 - 3 years since we are looking at a 5 year window with Amare and Melo.

Yeah, but just bringing guys who have in the league doesn't matter either.

You have to have guys who will do what is needed for your team.

This team has one of the main components to winning a title....players who can make the winning play.

The team needs......

1)The winning play and system of play

2)Players who fit the mold of compliment to Stat and Melo

Vets aren't an automatic answer...we have those already.

ORANGEandBLUE · Post #60 » by **ORANGEandBLUE** » Sat Apr 23, 2011 5:00 pm

I would be more optimistic about Amare if I were convinced that our coach will not run him into the ground next year. But let's face it, the reasons that led to Amare's wear and tear this season- lack of a front court rotation and not being able to sustain leads (because as soon as we get up 10, our players get the green light to jack up 3's)- will be present next season.