I See The Glass Half Empty .... Sorry

[Pharmcat]

^steve nash shares the ball, still a 500 team cuz his teammates provide no consistency

sharing the ball only goes as far as how good the players around you are....and as i posted b4, amare teammates were hit or miss

[Pharmcat]

ok i was looking for another superstar name, and no 1 can provide it

that should tell you something

It tells me..D'antoni needs to GTFO this Knicks payroll.

The entire Hawks team plays out of position, imo.

they started against ORL collings at C, horford at PF, smith at sf, jj at sg, hinrich at pg

no out of position there

plus horford is bulkier than amare, he can take more of the pushing around at the c spot imo

[Siem]

I think the majority of you Tend to overreact..For One Fields is a rookie, he's hit the wall...Amare has not lost his athletcism, Its just for one he was adapting to a new role with Melo coming along, and too his body was probably tired for the most part,, I can understand the worry about his knees, but I really dont belive that is the issue.... The one complaint i do have I felt Mike D ran him into the ground at times when there was no need to...Yes his minutes were similar to some other Players, but in our system its actually worse.....My opinion I dont think Mike D is the guy for a Team Staring Amare and Melo, so we'll see what happens.

We still have two of the most unstoppable players in the league, who have shown they can be playmakers for others as well..We have a rookie with promise...We ran into a Experienced veteran, still championship caliber team, who got favorable calls in Boston, and injuries caught up to us...So lets not get into panic mode..Some guys are ready to blow everything up...After 7 years of the s#it we went through we are in a much better position and we will be ok, So just ease up some guys...NY is Back, and this was the first step....Remember our guys still havent Gelled completely.

[Thugger HBC]

Fields is clearly star struck, which is kinda surprising.

Stat's been here the whole season, and he played off him very well.

I think Fields is doing what he is told, get the ball to Melo.

It's the only way he looks.

I watched a couple of plays last night when Fields held the ball for over 5 seconds at the three point line...just looking.

Someone is telling him to do that, no way that happens more than once in a game by accident.

[Thugger HBC]

ok i was looking for another superstar name, and no 1 can provide it

that should tell you something

It tells me..D'antoni needs to GTFO this Knicks payroll.

The entire Hawks team plays out of position, imo.

they started against ORL collings at C, horford at PF, smith at sf, jj at sg, hinrich at pg

no out of position there

plus horford is bulkier than amare, he can take more of the pushing around at the c spot imo

That lineup hasn't been their lineup though, it's to have more bulk up front for Dwight.

[Pharmcat]

and if i recall, horford family member (his dad?) was asking ATL to play him at PF also

so again, its not easy to play out of position at the C spot

[dk7th]

ok i was looking for another superstar name, and no 1 can provide it

that should tell you something

It tells me..D'antoni needs to GTFO this Knicks payroll.

The entire Hawks team plays out of position, imo.

amar'e was acquired as a matter of expediency but most folks seem to forget that. he wasn't the knicks' first choice and as it turns out he is more of a small forward than a power forward, only that nash helped mightily to mask this fact. and now that we have another small forward knick fans are somehow expecting big things once amar'e and melo mesh. i am skeptical.

so blaming d'antoni for playing him out of position is a bit unfair. amar'e wanted his money, didn't want to play center, and wanted ridnour to feed him on the pick and roll. the team thought that mozgov was ready but he wasn't, and neither was jordan.

[mildred]

What gets me is why won't Amare pass when he's doubled or tripled when we have Melo on the court. I could sort of understand before Melo (although I really don't), but in this case Melo's gotta be wide open or at least with given room to make a move. Why does Amare still only have eyes for the rim ? It's really frustrating as a fan.

I'm just glad to see there are others who see Amare's selfishness and are not confusing it with putting the team on his back. Also, Amare has effectively become a jump shooter ..... wtf ? He gets denied more inside than David Lee did (in the 2nd half of the season only)

[Deeeez Knicks]

But yes the people talking like its so easy to build a championship team are nuts. This is going to take a sh*t ton of sheer luck on alot of things.

That is all true.

But it was just as true before the trade.

and whats the point of this comment? i dont think anyone before the trade was talking like we were just a handful of simple moves away from being a contender... but they are now...

look at a team like boston... where would they have been without contributions from guys like rondo... and davis... and perkins... talent they were able to retain while building their star core... if you think guys like douglas and walker and williams are going to be key cogs in our championship run... well more power to you... i tend to think were going to need more talent... yes boston brought in a couple of role players... and did trade perkins this year... but the majority of their core is the same as it was day 1 after the trades made to acquire ray and kg...

I just think its a little crazy that so many people are complaining that it'll be very difficult to build a contender now when this has always been the case. That was the point of the statement.

Yeah, you can look at Boston. They need contributions from there role players. But they also need them from there stars too. Sure its difficult to fill both of those positions.

Role players, stars, whatever. It goes much further beyond that though. That isn't even our biggest problem. We need defense and a quality big man next to Amare. We need team cohesion on both ends of the court.

Can this happen? Yeah I think it can.

Will it be difficult? Sure.

So I'm looking at a glass half full. We are not in that terrible of shape. We came from the bottom of the bottom and moved up quick.

[dk7th]

^steve nash shares the ball, still a 500 team cuz his teammates provide no consistency

sharing the ball only goes as far as how good the players around you are....and as i posted b4, amare teammates were hit or miss

yeah i don't understand your point here-- the suns had to part ways with basically the best pick and roll finisher in the game and nobody who the suns have now is amar'e's equal in that regard so what exactly are you accusing the rest of the team of? you think you are going to be better with players like carter and channing frye? nash lost the best teammate he has ever had in stoudemire and now it is clear that stoudemire lost the best teammate he ever had too. again it's a team game and nash and stat were perfect for one another. has anything that john, paul, george, or ringo done after the beatles been on the level of the beatles?

[Thugger HBC]

amar'e was acquired as a matter of expediency but most folks seem to forget that. he wasn't the knicks' first choice and as it turns out he is more of a small forward than a power forward, only that nash helped mightily to mask this fact. and now that we have another small forward knick fans are somehow expecting big things once amar'e and melo mesh. i am skeptical.

so blaming d'antoni for playing him out of position is a bit unfair. amar'e wanted his money, didn't want to play center, and wanted ridnour to feed him on the pick and roll. the team thought that mozgov was ready but he wasn't, and neither was jordan.

I really haven't look at it like that, although defensively Amar'e would look worse at SF than he does at C.

The offensive side isn't what I particularly care about, he will score regardless.

Defensively who should he be guarding?

[yaboynyp]

Everybody sucks!!.. Mike can't coach Melo and 4 scrubs to victory, Cmon Mike step your game up!!! Amare is old!!!! and his athleticism is gone!!!! he's a shell of what he was in game one when he had 28 and 11 and dunked on Baby and KG... Melo doesn't share the ball he's a selfish ballvhog that's averaging 6 assists for the series!!!! And Chauncey?? Chauncey?? He's a b****!! What does he have a knee strain?? Cmon Chauncey put some tape on it and walk it off!!! Landry needs to go to the Dvleague, and he mine as well take the rest of the roster with him!! We suck!!! We mine as well sign Marbury back, at least then we would know we sucked.. My solution fire everybody and start over, lets just etchasketch the whole team!!!

Signed Stupid Knicks Fan

[Pharmcat]

^steve nash shares the ball, still a 500 team cuz his teammates provide no consistency

sharing the ball only goes as far as how good the players around you are....and as i posted b4, amare teammates were hit or miss

yeah i don't understand your point here-- the suns had to part ways with basically the best pick and roll finisher in the game and nobody who the suns have now is amar'e's equal in that regard so what exactly are you accusing the rest of the team of? you think you are going to be better with players like carter and channing frye? nash lost the best teammate he has ever had in stoudemire and now it is clear that stoudemire lost the best teammate he ever had too. again it's a team game and nash and stat were perfect for one another. has anything that john, paul, george, or ringo done after the beatles been on the level of the beatles?

sharing the ball only goes as far as how good the players around you are....and as i posted b4, amare teammates were hit or miss

thats the point

[J0rdan4life42o]

I am not throwing in the towel.. get a win tomorrow and we can go from there... amare knees looked fine game 1.. he hurt his back for christ sakes... the second half of the season amare was worn down.. it happens. His knees are fine..

This will be my last comment on Amare.

Why did Amare wear down in the 2nd half ? It's not like he's a rookie that is not used to an NBA season. He's played MD minutes for many years while MD was coaching the Suns. He's an athletic specimen and a gym rat that keeps his body in tip top, A1 condition. He's probably in better shape than anyone in the NBA.

Why did he wear down ? It's not like he played against other teams bigs all the time and defended them 100% of the time. In fact the comments regarding his matador defense were heard often on this forum. Why didn't KG, Zbo, Josh Smith, Gasol etc wear down in similar fashion ? These are the questions I ask myself. I love Amare as a leader. I love the way he loves NY. The way he beats his chest, but a leader must lead on the court as well to be a complete leader and I didn't see this aspect in Amare's game in the 2nd half of the season. If you want your team to defend then you must defend.

My beef with Amare is not his performance last nite and I understand he pulled a muscle in his back and is not healthy right now. My beef with Amare has nothing to do with last nites game. My beef with Amare is what he did for NY in the second half of the season. Maybe it was a 40 game slump ..... could be ? I'm concerned though and it's one of the reasons why I see a glass half empty right now.

40 game slump? Are you out of your freaking mind? Now be honest, have you watched every Knick game this season? Because 40 games goes back to Jan., so be aware you're calling Amar'e and his supposed worn out knees further back than you probably intended.

Firstly, every game he sat out this year, including the playoffs, has had absolutely no relation to his "weary" knees. Stubbed big toe against the Nets for 1 game, then he botched his ankle up in Philly, missing 3 games because of it.

As for Amar'e and his creaky knees wearing down...


No doubt Amar'e playing MVP caliber basketball the first 25 games of the season. He was beasting, just killing teams...he had 13 30+ point games in that stretch...he had 9 during the 2nd half of the season, which included 3 40 point explosions, which he had none of during the 1st part of the season. During that 40 stretch of games where Amar'e knees were obviously becoming a cause of concern, his efficiency went back up after really struggling from late December through most of January. He had big games statistically against quality opponents during that 40 game stretch where his knees were clearly giving out...Vs. Philly and Miami at home, at Miami and Atlanta, big game against Howard in a tough loss in Orlando, was a rock for us in a big win Vs Orlando which started our little 7 game win streak...

Lets be real here, Amar'e wearing down in general has been way overblown. I think a lot of people got a bit greedy after seeing what he did at the end of November and through a good portion of December. He was playing MVP basketball, putting up 30pts 10reb 3blk per game during that stretch...he had the Knicks winning to the likes of like a 16-7 record or something around that...he was the best basketball player on the planet during that stretch...if you were expecting Amar'e to maintain that type of play, you were just fooling yourself. I love and respect Amar'e as a basketball player to death and love everything about his game, but to expect that from him on a nightly basis would be unfair. Lets not marginalize the fact that he got on a roll when we were going up against some rather weak competition. It's easy to get nasty dunks and ferocious finishes when there's no help in the middle and he can easily get by his man to the rim. That "lift" looks much better when facing Brook Lopez than the Celtics, Lakers or Mavs....yet he still had explosive games Vs. Orlando, Philly, Phoenix, Atlanta and Miami, not to mention the ridiculous duel with Griffin.

I won't even go to deep into the fact that this team completed a massive mid-season trade for Carmelo and a new PG that completely changed the way this team played, pushed the ball and got the offense rolling.

You sound like a fool questioning Stoudemire's durability, especially focusing on his knees. If anything, I'd be more concerned with his back as that's something that could linger on into next season and possibly haunt him for the rest of his career if he's not smart about it.

[Knicks D]

Look, the team is flawed but not in the sense you are speaking of. We don't have a true PG since Billups got hurt and Amare is far from 100% Even during the last part of the season when his numbers fell off, part of it was the transition from being option A to option B and part was injury. We also need to get a lot taller. I;m starting to think including Mozgov was the biggest mistake but I also don't see how you keep him when you are getting a top 5 player in return.
As far as Landry, I think he'll be fine, this is his rookie season. He never played this much basketball in his life. It takes a toll on you mentally as well as physically. We are also burning the crap out of Mello. He practically has been carrying this team on his back since the last 10 games of the season.
As far as the coach, yeah, he has made some mistakes and had his role in last nights loss but that loss goes on the whole team. That was a total breakdown. I never saw two player (Allen and Pierce) piratically hit every shot they took. At some point the players guarding them have to have some pride and say to himself "This stops now".
This season is going to be over soon and I'm looking to see what the team does next season.

Well, you certainly look at the Knick situation as the glass half full which is fine. Hopefully Fields has hit a rookie wall and will bounce back, but his degree of impact on a game has dropped so drastically that it just alarms me. It just looks like he doesn't fit anymore .... we'll see I guess.

Amare not being 100% ...... why ? (Im not referring to his recent back spasm injury) His knees can't take the impact of a long grinding season ? Will Amare break down at mid season every year and be just mortal going into the playoffs ? This really concerns me more than anything. I'm not liking his lift. He can't beat anyone at the rim with any consistency these days like he was early in the season. He won't pass because he feels he must do it himself (not a good mindset when your body isn't what it was). I admire his courage and his wanting to take on the responsibility, but doesn't he see himself not getting the job done as of late ? Has reality and reputation totally disconnected in his head or is the disconnect in my head ?

As far as Amare, I know he was injured the last 2 or 3 weeks of the season but I didn't think it was his knees. He may have to get a bit smarter and rely on that nice mid range shot he has a bit more so he has more left at the end. Regardless, he still an athletic freak.

[Thugger HBC]

As far as Amare, I know he was injured the last 2 or 3 weeks of the season but I didn't think it was his knees. He may have to get a bit smarter and rely on that nice mid range shot he has a bit more so he has more left at the end. Regardless, he still an athletic freak.

And maybe stop practicing dunks in pre-game if his back is out of wack.

He id it again last night, even was hanging off of it at one point.

[kane2021]

I didnt read through the whole thread.

This series is over. We will probably win sunday. And get taken out in five. Maybe even force it to six. But its done.

As far as the team and the future I think we are in better shape than most seem to think. We have 2 young, not even primed super star talents to build around. And remember its still the 2010-2011 season. This was the season we waited for to put a team together.

I am disappointed with this past game. But im not looking down on he future.

As for fields I think its best we trade this kid asap while the rookie wall excuse can still be used. Its just like with Lee, Nate, Chandler, Gallo, these young players came to a bad team and a free offense. They looked better than they really were. We hung onto to Lee and Nate to long. Wilson's contract status cut deep into his trade value. And Gallo was never really properly showcased for the inevitable. Because it was inevitable gallo get traded.

Its not just what happened 2nd half of the year with fields. Its been all year his strengths were teams weaknesses and he provided that from the team most depleted position. Carmelo fills those needs.

Just saying because we need to continue to build a team here. We are low on assets. If fields has any value, we should look to make a deal. Not to just ship him out, but to make the team better. Heck if someone offered a good 1st for him, and we could draft someone that could fill a need, you got to do it.

[Pharmcat]

kane are you on the 2012 plan?


i leaning against it myself

[mildred]

I'm actually going out on a limb questioning Amares knees. There's been not one article claiming a knee problem. All I'm saying is there is something wrong with Amare physically. Maybe it's been his back all along ? I don't know and I've never stated that I know. Amare has a history of knee problems so I surmise the loss of athleticism from the 1st half to the 2nd half COULD BE due to his knees. This POSSIBILITY worries me going forward and that's one reason I see the glass half empty.

But to say Amare has been explosive in some games in the 2nd half of the season ? Geez, even Zbo could rattke the rim with a couple of dunks here and there. Amare is an expert at monster finishes. He acts and hits hard and quick. That doesn't change. It's how he's beating a defender down low that interests me, it's how many blocks he has during a game, it's what his shooting % is.

With tired knees all those stats should decrease and my bet is that they did decrease in the 2nd half. Do I expect him to continue the torrid pace of 56% shooting from the field ? .... of course not but I would hope it would be better than what he's done and forced during the 2nd half of the season when more is at stake.

[Deeeez Knicks]

Btw Landry Fields is a perfect example of what I mean. I think most of us agree that the guy has talent but it's going to take some time for him to figure out his role in this team. It's unfair of us to demand him to be a top playoff performer in his rookie season or even next year, it's only fair to give him 2 - 3 years to get there. The question is, do we have those 2 - 3 years to let him get there?

This is what I don't get. Why wouldn't we have 2-3 years? And what is so bad if it takes us 2 years to become a really legit contender?

Amare is 28 and Melo is 26.

If the complaint is that Amare will break down in 2 years, then we are/were F'd no matter what moves or trades we made or did not make.

Amar'e is a major concern, there is no doubt about it. Reality is that we don't have enough information to know if he will ever break down so you have to rush to take your best shot as quickly as possible since we just don't know.

THe other is less about the basketball and more about expectations. You don't get 2 superstars, raise ticket prices significantly and then say, it's ok, we are going to take another 2 years until we have the perfect team to make a title run or two. Not going to work in this town. You have guys on this forum expecting that this summer we are going to put a team together to compete for a title, what do you think is going to happen if next season we don't put that team together? The moment we got Melo it became a win now mode, whether people like it or not.

To each there own with expectations. I can't control anyone's expectations. I just don't think its very realistic or fair to expect a title next year. Anyone who's expecting that is setting themselves up for failure so maybe thats why the glass is half empty.

But I think windows are much different then expectations. It sounds like people are talking about a 2-3 year window, when our window really should be much larger. Who even knows what are window is? If everyone stays healthy it could be over 5 years. It all depends on health in which nobody can predict.

As far as expectations, I just think its a process and it takes time. And if it takes 5 years for us to win a title I would be crazy excited about that and take that in a second. Thats just me.

As far as ticket prices thats a different issue.