Are the Coyotes headed back to Winnipeg?

[Nolan]

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/2011/04/13/coyotes_winnipeg/

Multiple sources tell Sportsnet that a deal to sell the franchise to Matthew Hulsizer is close to being scuttled and the National Hockey League could be in a position to announce the franchise's move once the Coyotes are eliminated from the playoffs. They begin a seven-game series against the Red Wings Wednesday in Detroit.

There are investors in Winnipeg interested in acquiring the franchise, which left Winnipeg for Phoenix in 1996. True North Sports and Entertainment has said it would purchase the team and play in the MTS Centre.

As well, Sportsnet's Nick Kypreos is reporting the NHL and True North Sports and Entertainment, led by Mark Chipman and including billionaire David Thomson, have the parameters of a deal already in place to expedite a sale if needed. New owners would need time to sell tickets and make scheduling arrangements, as the MTS Centre currently houses the Manitoba Moose of the American Hockey League.

Crazy stuff. It'd be nice to see another team head north and with all the uncertainty around the Coyotes it looks like they'll be on the move this offseason. Bill Daly has already came out and refuted the report but he pretty vague about it.

Thoughts?

[trwi7]

It's a shame that it looks like it isn't going to work out in Phoenix. I don't like that they're moving the team to where they already failed once and they're now the NHL's smallest market iirc.

I would've liked to see them try to find a buyer in the South. Houston would be a great spot for a franchise imo.

If this happens the Moose have to move, at least I would imagine they would.

[WEFFPIM]

I think this would suck, personally. The NHL is finally growing at a pretty decent rate in the US. Losing one of the biggest markets population wise would hurt it. Goldwater Institute has done all they can to block the deal for no real reason. It's a shame that it might actually work.

[Nolan]

It's a shame that it looks like it isn't going to work out in Phoenix. I don't like that they're moving the team to where they already failed once and they're now the NHL's smallest market iirc.

I would've liked to see them try to find a buyer in the South. Houston would be a great spot for a franchise imo.

If this happens the Moose have to move, at least I would imagine they would.

The team had a huge fan base and still does. The reason they failed was because of rising salaries, rising operating costs and the disparity between the Canadian and American dollar. The new salary cap system will favor the city Winnipeg.

[Mr Swagtastic]

Looks like the deal is done. Maybe the Canadian Media is being biased? But they suggested that the Coyotes are among the worst teams in the NHL in terms of tickets sales. They average 7,000 ticket sales per game if that plus their TV market isn't the biggest I think it's among the worst.

I heard that the MCI or whatever the building is in Winnipeg is at 13,000 - 14,000 in terms of seating so that could help and we all know Canada is a huge hockey nation. I think that it's safe to say Winnipeg will be getting 1 franchise if it's not the Coyotes it will be either the Islanders or another failing franchise (Panthers maybe?)

[trwi7]

MTS Centre holds just over 15,000.

[WEFFPIM]

Looks like the deal is done. Maybe the Canadian Media is being biased? But they suggested that the Coyotes are among the worst teams in the NHL in terms of tickets sales. They average 7,000 ticket sales per game if that plus their TV market isn't the biggest I think it's among the worst.

I heard that the MCI or whatever the building is in Winnipeg is at 13,000 - 14,000 in terms of seating so that could help and we all know Canada is a huge hockey nation. I think that it's safe to say Winnipeg will be getting 1 franchise if it's not the Coyotes it will be either the Islanders or another failing franchise (Panthers maybe?)

Phoenix-Glendale-Scottsdale is about 4.5 million people, 12th in the US. It's a massive TV market. Now, ratings aren't great, nor are ticket sales. But there's certainly enough people there to support a team.

I've been pretty adamant in saying that moving the Coyotes out of Phoenix would be a mistake. The team is there now in terms of quality, a proper owner is something they've never had. Hulsizer seems like a guy who was committed to growing the team there. But this random watchdog group is blocking the deal for inexplicable reasons.

It should be pointed out that it is just the Canadian media saying the team is moving right now. They've cried wolf dozens of times before this. I hope this is another instance of that, I think a successful team with a smart owner in one of the largest markets in the US is more valuable in the long run than a team in Winnipeg.

[Nolan]

MTS Centre holds just over 15,000.

The MTS centre is the biggest problem with this whole deal. That building needs a major upgrade in terms of seating.

[HDMAVS760CA]

Looks like the deal is done. Maybe the Canadian Media is being biased? But they suggested that the Coyotes are among the worst teams in the NHL in terms of tickets sales. They average 7,000 ticket sales per game if that plus their TV market isn't the biggest I think it's among the worst.

I heard that the MCI or whatever the building is in Winnipeg is at 13,000 - 14,000 in terms of seating so that could help and we all know Canada is a huge hockey nation. I think that it's safe to say Winnipeg will be getting 1 franchise if it's not the Coyotes it will be either the Islanders or another failing franchise (Panthers maybe?)

Phoenix-Glendale-Scottsdale is about 4.5 million people, 12th in the US. It's a massive TV market. Now, ratings aren't great, nor are ticket sales. But there's certainly enough people there to support a team.

I've been pretty adamant in saying that moving the Coyotes out of Phoenix would be a mistake. The team is there now in terms of quality, a proper owner is something they've never had. Hulsizer seems like a guy who was committed to growing the team there. But this random watchdog group is blocking the deal for inexplicable reasons.

It should be pointed out that it is just the Canadian media saying the team is moving right now. They've cried wolf dozens of times before this. I hope this is another instance of that, I think a successful team with a smart owner in one of the largest markets in the US is more valuable in the long run than a team in Winnipeg.

This is what i've heard about zona. I've never been there, would like to visit the grand canyon. Zona natives say the following on other message boards. The problem with the coyotes attendance is that the new arena should never have been put in Glendale. And worse, parking is free & that's not smart for business. I wish parking could be free at Magic Mountain[$15] & Disneyland[?]. People say that the drive there is over an hour from Phoenix. I guess Glendale is a place where people would rather drive on the weekend for Cardinals games. 1 game a week. And the new arena shoulda been in Scottsdale but that didn't happen. I don't mind Phoenix having a team actually.

[WEFFPIM]

Yep, the main fan base is in Scottsdale. While the arena is in an up and coming entertainment district, it's also on the outskirts of the Phoenix area and a pain in the ass to get to. Phoenix traffic is horrible as it is.

The ownership group of the Coyotes has made a ton of wrong moves in its time there.

[Mr Swagtastic]

Well this is a moot point now that the Coyotes are out I think the deal is done. It's so bad that they were selling Winnipeg Jets swag at the game I heard or close to it. If that doesn't say the team doesn't have a future in Arizona I don't know what does?

I agree Glendale was a horrid choice Scottsdale should heave been the home not Glendale.

Just a tidbit Detroit was the team that send Winnipeg to Phoenix so it would be ironic if they send Phoenix back to Winnipeg 16-17 years later

[WEFFPIM]

It's not a done deal yet. Only the Canadian media has said it is. They've done it dozens of times before.

And if Winnipeg fans were selling stuff outside to arena last night, then that's incredibly s***ty of them. People north of the border have been crapping on Coyotes fans for years, they don't deserve the garbage they've had to deal with, both from that team and from people outside of the desert.

And no, that doesn't say the team doesn't have a future in Arizona. It says fans from Winnipeg flew to Phoenix to sell t-shirts.

[darth_federer]

When a team is losing 20-25 million a year it doesnt make sense to keep a team there. Even with the new CBA that team was losing bucketloads of money. Only the stubbornness of Gary Bettman kept the team there. Are they losing a big tv market? Yes, but hockey in the desert was always an iffy proposition. The Coyotes havent been helped by being a bad team for most of that time, moving to a dumb place and having bad owners.

But I think that fans up here are a bit delusional about the Canadian hockey fan. I remember when the Flames had to put a tarp on the upper deck and when Montreal didnt sell out a lot of nights. Edmonton had issues too and Ottawa is guaranteed to lose money unless the team makes the second round every year. All its going to take is a bad Canadian dollar and teams are going to struggle. We have a commodities boom right now but that will eventually end. But, having a half empty building is just bad. The new CBA should make it much better for a new team to function and its a smaller arena.

And Winnipeg is going to have trouble attracting free agents just like Edmonton.

GLENDALE, ARIZ. - Winnipeg isn't even back in the NHL, yet, but it already has a potential free agent problem.

Phoenix Coyotes goaltender Ilya Bryzgalov, a soon-to-be free agent who was probably the team's most valuable player the last two seasons, says he'd rather go back to Russia than play in Winnipeg.

"You don't want to go to Winnipeg, right?" Bryzgalov said after the Coyotes lost to Detroit, Wednesday night. "Not many people live there, not many Russian people there. Plus it's cold. There's no excitement except the hockey. No park, no entertaining for the families, for the kids. It's going to be tough life for your family."

The 30-year-old Russian's knowledge of Winnipeg comes from a visit or two when he was with Cincinnati in the AHL.

"I've been there for just once, maybe twice, when I play in minors. It was really cold," Bryzgalov said. "I used the tunnels between the buildings to get to the arena. Because it was minus 40-something. Real cold."

And if he's going to put up with that, he'd rather be back home.

So if the Coyotes move to Winnipeg, Bryzgalov says chances are he wouldn't listen to a contract offer from the new owners.

"Probably not. I better go to somewhere in Russia, KHL, to be honest. Because KHL is Russian people, it's family, friends. Even as a cold place, I can speak to people in Russian language."

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Hockey/NHL/Pl ... 51576.html

But the fans of Winnipeg deserve a team. Atlanta is probably on its way to Quebec City too. Its tough to lose to big markets like that but you cant have a team losing tens of millions of dollars every year.

[trwi7]

This thread makes me sad that Lloyd Pettit ended his bid.

[WEFFPIM]

Let's address this fallacy of hockey failing in non-traditional hockey markets, shall we? Things aren't working in Phoenix, heading that direction in Atlanta and Florida is right behind. Those are the three teams people look at and say "See! Sun Belt Hockey doesn't work!" But then they ignore teams like the Sharks, Kings, Ducks, Stars, Predators, Hurricanes and Lightning that have succeeded in non-traditional markets. You know what the difference is there? Teams that have won consistently. That's all you need. The Coyotes are now getting that, it would be a shame to see them leave Phoenix now when the growth potential is so massive. That's why Bettman is fighting so hard to keep them there. This franchise can explode if placed in the right hands.

And Quebec City is not getting the Thrashers. Not without a better building.

[KGISDAMAN]

cant wait to get my new jets jersey!!!!!

[Nolan]

Let's address this fallacy of hockey failing in non-traditional hockey markets, shall we? Things aren't working in Phoenix, heading that direction in Atlanta and Florida is right behind. Those are the three teams people look at and say "See! Sun Belt Hockey doesn't work!" But then they ignore teams like the Sharks, Kings, Ducks, Stars, Predators, Hurricanes and Lightning that have succeeded in non-traditional markets. You know what the difference is there? Teams that have won consistently. That's all you need. The Coyotes are now getting that, it would be a shame to see them leave Phoenix now when the growth potential is so massive. That's why Bettman is fighting so hard to keep them there. This franchise can explode if placed in the right hands.

And Quebec City is not getting the Thrashers. Not without a better building.

If you put a winning team anywhere your going to attract fans, even in non-traditional markets. But that's not the problem here, the problem is maintaining those fan bases when the teams struggling. Just look at the attendance records of the Hurricanes between 06 and 08 after they won the cup. Meanwhile teams like the Oilers, Leafs and Wild are still coming close to selling out every night despite the fact that they're horrible teams. Winnipeg's going to be another one of those markets where the fans are going to show up redgardless of how bad the team is.

[trwi7]

Once again, here's my problem with Winnipeg.

The entire province of Manitoba has 1.2 million people. The city of Phoenix alone has 1.4 with a metro area of over 4 million.

The MTS Centre only holds 15,015 for hockey with no place for expansion.

The Coyotes have had an average attendance of 14,055 the last 10 years. That less than 1,000 of what the entire MTS Centre can hold. How much growth is there by adding 960 fans?

I don't know when this whole moving Phoenix to Winnipeg **** storm started but the last two years they've only averaged 12,098. Maybe the speculation of the team moving has driven fans away.

The point about Winnipeg selling out every game isn't a great one imo because of the capacity of MTS Centre. 23 teams this year averaged more than 15,015, 25 teams did in 09-10, 26 teams did in 08-09, 26 teams did in 07-08 and 23 did in 06-07. Where's the earning potential? With 630,000 in Winnipeg and another 600,000 spread out all over the province (the second biggest city in Manitoba is Brandon at 42,000 and they're 2.5 hours away from Winnipeg.)

Even if they sell out every game they're still in the bottom third of attendance and with so few people over such a huge area there's really no place for earning potential.

Keep the team in Phoenix or if you are going to move it, move it to a place that's actually big enough to support a team.

[WEFFPIM]

And so few people in that area means a very low ceiling in terms of TV and advertising revenue. But twirl, your last sentence is dead on. Moving out of one of the largest TV markets in the US is bad enough, moving it to another tiny Siberia is about the worst move imaginable. There's plenty of US markets that want a team that a big enough to support it. In fact, Las Vegas would make a ton of sense for this team. And make no mistake, the long-term success and growth of the NHL does not reside in Canada. This league will always be popular in Canada, but it can skyrocket in the US.

Bettman is annoying, but it's not hard to figure out why he's so determined to keep the Coyotes in Phoenix and keep the Thrashers in Atlanta. These teams literally have nowhere to go but up in those markets. Moving them to Winnipeg and Quebec City respectively ruins that potential, and puts them in situations with a very low ceiling.

[KGISDAMAN]

Once again, here's my problem with Winnipeg.

The entire province of Manitoba has 1.2 million people. The city of Phoenix alone has 1.4 with a metro area of over 4 million.

The MTS Centre only holds 15,015 for hockey with no place for expansion.

The Coyotes have had an average attendance of 14,055 the last 10 years. That less than 1,000 of what the entire MTS Centre can hold. How much growth is there by adding 960 fans?

I don't know when this whole moving Phoenix to Winnipeg **** storm started but the last two years they've only averaged 12,098. Maybe the speculation of the team moving has driven fans away.

The point about Winnipeg selling out every game isn't a great one imo because of the capacity of MTS Centre. 23 teams this year averaged more than 15,015, 25 teams did in 09-10, 26 teams did in 08-09, 26 teams did in 07-08 and 23 did in 06-07. Where's the earning potential? With 630,000 in Winnipeg and another 600,000 spread out all over the province (the second biggest city in Manitoba is Brandon at 42,000 and they're 2.5 hours away from Winnipeg.)

Even if they sell out every game they're still in the bottom third of attendance and with so few people over such a huge area there's really no place for earning potential.

Keep the team in Phoenix or if you are going to move it, move it to a place that's actually big enough to support a team.

it is possible for the mts center to expand a little bit if they wanted.

only 960 more fans true , however winnipeg fans will be paying a lot more for tickets lol . tickets are pretty cheap in phoneix.

chipman and thomson own the arena and lots of property around the mts center. city of glendale owns the jobbing .com arena. concerts and other events at the mts center means profit for the future jet owners.

what city do u suggest they move the team to?

atlanta is also in pretty bad shape,owners want out


i suggest to you guys that are naysayers or uneducated on the nhl returning to winnipeg go to jetsowner.com lots of info there.