MVP Derrick Rose, I am disappoint.

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Re: MVP Derrick Rose, I am disappoint. 

Post#121 » by D-31 » Sun Apr 24, 2011 4:06 pm

Morten Jensen wrote:One day, I wish you'd offer something of substance.


- Throughout the course of the year, Chicago has had one ballhandler. Him. I've followed this game for many years and I have never, ever, seen a team use their primary ballhandler as much as Chicago has used Rose. He dribbles the ball up every single time. He's the one creating the offense every single time. Add a secondary ballhandler to the Bulls, and Rose's efforts would be maximized. But when you have players who cannot dribble, it limits your options and drains your stamina.


For someone who followed the game for many years, I'm wondering what went through your head with this ridiculous statement. Dribbling the ball up every single time is the very definition of running the point, to point this out as some kind of remarkable feat for Rose is absolutely laughable. If what your saying was true, he'd either be posting much higher assist totals, or Chicago would be one of the worst offenses in the league. Furthermore, it's not not like Indiana is doing a full court press every time and Rose is having to exert a lot of energy.

- Offensive execution. This section might as well be called the need for a secondary ballhandler version 2.0. As stated before, not having players who can create their own offense, severly limits your offensive game plan. Thibodeau, who's been excellent all year long, has simply not made adjustments to the offense so they can try to get around that problem. Sure, it's difficult to create such a system in which you rely on non-dribblers to effectively create. But then at least lose the play in which you try to dump it down to Boozer. It eats clock, and he's been very unsuccesful with it.


Rose has been by far the worse decision maker on the Bulls team. With his bad shot selection and sloppy turnovers. Chicago wins on the defensive side of the ball, all they need is for Rose to be serviceable. Watch Rose play and you can clearly see why Chicago's offense is so bad. Rose has a low basketball IQ, almost all his passes are simple passes hitting guys coming off screens or on pick and pops. These are extremely easy passes that grade schoolers can execute. Hansbrough has done remarkably well fronting Boozer, something that would easily be broken down by a skilled point guard, while Derrick Rose looks clueless and unsure what do do.

Rose shooting 35% is a product of himself and the make-up of the team. Putting it solely on his shoulders, while completely ignoring the context of it all, is laughable. Does Rose deserve criticism? Hell yes. He does. I'm sure he's banging his head against a wall right now, and I'm not even kidding. He knows he's played poorly. But let's not sit back and pretend like he was on easy street here. Coming into the game last night, Boozer had a PER of 7.9 with a TS% of .421 while playing the third most amount of minutes on the team. When you receive that kind of ''help'' from your supposed second-best player, I don't know what you frankly expect.


Can't add much more to this. Well I guess I should have pointed out Deng is the second best player. And maybe if Boozer was able to take 20 shots a game he'd get on track.

Substantive enough?
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Re: MVP Derrick Rose, I am disappoint. 

Post#122 » by GYBE » Sun Apr 24, 2011 4:06 pm

charity stripe wrote:
Vertical Limit wrote:Okay, the ankle excuse for yesterday's game. Sure, what ever. What's the excuse for the other 3 low fg% games? He hasn't had ONE good game all series.


Take into account that he is getting triple, sometimes quadruple teamed when he has the ball. And the fact that he is being face guarded for 94 feet, and trapped at the half court line, even when he doesn't have the ball in his hands. And the face that he is getting pounded, elbowed, and grabbed by all the Pacers. Nobody else in the playoffs has faced nearly this much defensive attention.


Everything with Rose conversations is so absolute.

Nobody faces this much attention!
Nobody has the ball in their hands as much as him!

The Pacers are a thoroughly average defensive team. That makes them below-average for teams in the playoffs (In the East, only NY is clearly worse). Rose's counterpart, Collison, was playing with a sprained ankle. So please save the hyberbole, he wasn't going against the 94 Knicks. Rose had a bad game, I don't know why there always needs to be countless excuses for it.
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Re: MVP Derrick Rose, I am disappoint. 

Post#123 » by Anticon » Sun Apr 24, 2011 4:06 pm

Ice Man wrote:You guys think Deng and Boozer and Noah are dangerous weapons and that Rose has all kinds of options. Frank Vogel emphatically disagrees. Vogel is daring any Bull but Rose to attack 1v1 with success. Vogel is doing well with that bet.


They certainly have more options than Rose or Kyle Korver. That's just bad coaching. They Bulls have their limitations, sure, but when you reduce your offense to either an iso game for one guy and a jump shot for another, you're not exactly setting yourself up for long-term success.
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Re: MVP Derrick Rose, I am disappoint. 

Post#124 » by Die93 » Sun Apr 24, 2011 4:12 pm

Dudes were trying to tell me hes a better then Chris Paul
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Re: MVP Derrick Rose, I am disappoint. 

Post#125 » by Chris435 » Sun Apr 24, 2011 4:13 pm

sometimes, it takes star players a few years before they adjust to the playoff game. Rose wouldn't be the first guy who had an impressive regular season in his early years, then performed below that level in the postseason.

Rose will turn it around eventually, but it might not be this season.
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Re: MVP Derrick Rose, I am disappoint. 

Post#126 » by The Explorer » Sun Apr 24, 2011 4:19 pm

GYBE wrote:
charity stripe wrote:
Vertical Limit wrote:Okay, the ankle excuse for yesterday's game. Sure, what ever. What's the excuse for the other 3 low fg% games? He hasn't had ONE good game all series.


Take into account that he is getting triple, sometimes quadruple teamed when he has the ball. And the fact that he is being face guarded for 94 feet, and trapped at the half court line, even when he doesn't have the ball in his hands. And the face that he is getting pounded, elbowed, and grabbed by all the Pacers. Nobody else in the playoffs has faced nearly this much defensive attention.


Everything with Rose conversations is so absolute.

Nobody faces this much attention!
Nobody has the ball in their hands as much as him!

The Pacers are a thoroughly average defensive team. That makes them below-average for teams in the playoffs (In the East, only NY is clearly worse). Rose's counterpart, Collison, was playing with a sprained ankle. So please save the hyberbole, he wasn't going against the 94 Knicks. Rose had a bad game, I don't know why there always needs to be countless excuses for it.


Then tell me who else is facing as much defensive attention as him. You didn't really counter my point.

Of course he had a bad game, some of that was due to him just missing shots he normally makes, and also taking too many threes. That has already been discussed at length in this thread. The other side of him having a bad game was what the pacers were doing to him. That has not been discussed much in this thread, so I was offering another perspective.
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Re: MVP Derrick Rose, I am disappoint. 

Post#127 » by UGA Hayes » Sun Apr 24, 2011 4:21 pm

^ Eh this is his third playoffs and he was pretty good in the other ones. The issue to me isn't really is Rose a top echelon player-he is, its is he an MVP player. For the same reasons I didn't like Dirk, or AI's MVP seasons I just get miffed when guys who are semi-one dimensional offensive players on elite defensive teams get all the credit. I mean those three guys and their respective teams have had unbelievably similar attributes for their MVP season and Dirk and AIs MVP seasons are not looked upon very favorably in retrospect.
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Re: MVP Derrick Rose, I am disappoint. 

Post#128 » by Bucksfans1and2 » Sun Apr 24, 2011 4:27 pm

UGA Hayes wrote:^ Eh this is his third playoffs and he was pretty good in the other ones. The issue to me isn't really is Rose a top echelon player-he is, its is he an MVP player. For the same reasons I didn't like Dirk, or AI's MVP seasons I just get miffed when guys who are semi-one dimensional offensive players on elite defensive teams get all the credit. I mean those three guys and their respective teams have had unbelievably similar attributes for their MVP season and Dirk and AIs MVP seasons are not looked upon very favorably in retrospect.


Dirk was at least astoundingly efficent (IIRC)
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Re: MVP Derrick Rose, I am disappoint. 

Post#129 » by orangeparka » Sun Apr 24, 2011 4:29 pm

Gotta agree with the playoffs thing. Bulls and Rose are just getting exposed right now. Their defense won them a ton of games in the regular season, but you need both a goos defense and a good offense if you wanna win in the playoffs.

Just think about how much harder it'll be when they face tougher teams in the ECF, or hell, even the next series.

Thibs needs to adjust to the "trap Rose" defensive scheme. It's workin out horribly and Drose just isn't good enough yet to adjust to it or overcome it.

Bulls are really gonna need to adjust offensively if they want a chance at the championship. This id barely cutting it against a sub .500 team in the playoffs.
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Re: MVP Derrick Rose, I am disappoint. 

Post#130 » by Showtime:Part2 » Sun Apr 24, 2011 4:30 pm

i almost want to cry when people mention him in the same breath as chris paul.
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Re: MVP Derrick Rose, I am disappoint. 

Post#131 » by JordansBulls » Sun Apr 24, 2011 5:22 pm

Showtime:Part2 wrote:i almost want to cry when people mention him in the same breath as chris paul.


Why is this?

Rose led a team to the best record in the league with his 2nd and 3rd best players out 20 and 30+ games this year and with him being the only allstar. If you want to say 2008 CP3 is better I agree, but let's not act like CP3 this year has been better for the most part. Hell he was held scoreless in an important game to end the season.
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Re: MVP Derrick Rose, I am disappoint. 

Post#132 » by UGA Hayes » Sun Apr 24, 2011 5:34 pm

No offense but of all the teams in the league, the Bulls were one of the healthiest. Those two missed what one game at the same time. Rose hardly played any games where he didn't have one all star caliber big with him at the same time, which only a handful of PG can say. Additinally you have arguably the best backup bigs in the NBA in Asik, Gibson, Thomas.
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Re: MVP Derrick Rose, I am disappoint. 

Post#133 » by yattydaddy » Sun Apr 24, 2011 5:43 pm

Philly KDub wrote:He just had a bad game. The Bulls had a bad game offensively. Rose is a scorer. Why would you want him to take less shots? He is the team's best offensive player. He must take shots.

You are disgusted with his playoffs performance? Why? He has been clutch in the first 3 games. The Bulls won because of him. Watch the game before you post stuff like that

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Re: MVP Derrick Rose, I am disappoint. 

Post#134 » by yattydaddy » Sun Apr 24, 2011 5:44 pm

UGA Hayes wrote:No offense but of all the teams in the league, the Bulls were one of the healthiest. Those two missed what one game at the same time. Rose hardly played any games where he didn't have one all star caliber big with him at the same time, which only a handful of PG can say. Additinally you have arguably the best backup bigs in the NBA in Asik, Gibson, Thomas.


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Re: MVP Derrick Rose, I am disappoint. 

Post#135 » by TheAdmiral » Sun Apr 24, 2011 5:52 pm

UGA Hayes wrote:No offense but of all the teams in the league, the Bulls were one of the healthiest.


:lol:

Both Boozer and Noah have missed significant time this season.
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Re: MVP Derrick Rose, I am disappoint. 

Post#136 » by DASMACKDOWN » Sun Apr 24, 2011 5:53 pm

I find it laughable that he just had a season that has only happened for 4 other players in NBA history, about to become the youngest MVP in league history, in only his 3rd season....

and people say he sucks.

LMAO

Just think of what you guys are saying. Its his 3rd year, he is only 22, and people are making it seem like he has been in the league 10 years and is a primadonna.

lol

Call out his holes...go ahead...he will only get better.
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Re: MVP Derrick Rose, I am disappoint. 

Post#137 » by darth_federer » Sun Apr 24, 2011 5:57 pm

TheAdmiral wrote:
UGA Hayes wrote:No offense but of all the teams in the league, the Bulls were one of the healthiest.


:lol:

Both Boozer and Noah have missed significant time this season.


The Chicago Bulls, meanwhile, represent why talking about injuries is so difficult. Overcoming injuries to Carlos Boozer and Joakim Noah has been cited as an explanation for why Derrick Rose is a deserving MVP candidate. Replacing players like Boozer and Noah is difficult, but otherwise Chicago has enjoyed amazing health this season. Just two other Bulls players have missed time: Taj Gibson for two games and Rose himself for one. Nobody in the NBA has had fewer players suffer injuries, and the Bulls rank near the bottom of the league in terms of games missed.


http://basketballprospectus.com/article ... cleid=1631

Funny how the media never brings that up. Once someone becomes a darling you might as well start engraving their name into the awards. Yes they both missed time but Im pretty sure that they only missed about 5 games together. One of the two were almost always healthy and the Bulls enjoyed remarkable health otherwise. Every single contender except probably San Antonio had injuries to key players.

Even if you look at the adjusted man games lost (because Daniel Orton missing a game is not the same as Dwight Howard missing a game), the Bulls are 19th in the league in man games lost.
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Re: MVP Derrick Rose, I am disappoint. 

Post#138 » by Wade2k6 » Sun Apr 24, 2011 5:58 pm

DASMACKDOWN wrote:I find it laughable that he just had a season that has only happened for 4 other players in NBA history, about to become the youngest MVP in league history, in only his 3rd season....

and people say he sucks.

LMAO

Just think of what you guys are saying. Its his 3rd year, he is only 22, and people are making it seem like he has been in the league 10 years and is a primadonna.

lol

Call out his holes...go ahead...he will only get better.

I don't think anybody says he sucks, people just spew all this BS because a lot of Bulls fans have severely overrated him the majority of the year.
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Re: MVP Derrick Rose, I am disappoint. 

Post#139 » by Captain Kurt » Sun Apr 24, 2011 5:58 pm

Wow there is so much overreacting here. The Bulls as a whole have struggled against junk defenses like the one that the Pacers are using. This is their first loss in almost a month, can't win them all. I hope all the trolls get their jabs at the Bulls in now while they can, because there won't be many more losses for them.
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Re: MVP Derrick Rose, I am disappoint. 

Post#140 » by bullsnewdynasty » Sun Apr 24, 2011 6:03 pm

Boozer should be taking 20 shots?

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