FIRST ROUND:GAME 4 LAKERS @ HORNETS 4/24/11

[Doormatt]

stellar the problem with what you are saying in that Rondo/Iverson comparison is that Kobe is asked to be Jordan and Pippen. He has always been asked to do it because no one else can or could dating back to the day Phil came in 99. The fact is you want him to be perfectly blended, but there is no player including Magic, Bird, or Jordan that is asked to do more and is expected to do more year in and year out as it relates to facilitating, scoring, and come the postseason defending because we all know he is going to be treated as the blanket for the PG who can't be off. It is too simple to say just run the system, when you are asked to play the two specific roles that made the system famous and got it 6 titles initially in the league. I think he has done well at it with the 5 rings and 7 finals personally, but at the end of the day you are still asking a guy to do the job of two people, and do what none of the other greats in recent history has been asked to do and for a great number of years to boot.

probably but is it out of the question to ask kobe to play off the ball alil more i mean we're living and dieing when kobe (more dieing seems like) dominates the scoring load. i just want to see the ball consistently go in to the post through out the game, and if kobe gets 20 open looks running the offense then by all means more power to you kobe. its just the pull up bricks, turning the ball over in double teams, and the constant arguing with the reffs drives me crazy and really makes me question this guys "greatness". but like i said we live with what we get from this guy

That would be nice if our bigs were actually playing well in the post. Almost all of gasols action is face up and occasional quick moves to the basket. I struggle to think of more than one play he has made in the low post to a cutter. All of lamar's damage has come off the dribble and jump shoooting. Drew has been good, but you cant trust him to run too much offense, especially since he seems more timid since tweaking the knee.

[Doormatt]

i know everyone needs someone to blame,but everyone needs to understand what it is this team is trying to accomplish. there is a reason no modern day team has went to four straight finals while winning three straight. there are going to be bumps along the road,and this trip might be the toughest. instead of complaining about pau being soft or spreading more lies about this mythical thing called kobe's hero ball let's just support our team and enjoy the ride. there is no telling when we will have a contending team again,especially with the lockout looming!

It's difficult to keep things in perspective after losing in the playoffs but you have a point.

[stunnar0b]

That would be nice if our bigs were actually playing well in the post. Almost all of gasols action is face up and occasional quick moves to the basket. I struggle to think of more than one play he has made in the low post to a cutter. All of lamar's damage has come off the dribble and jump shoooting. Drew has been good, but you cant trust him to run too much offense, especially since he seems more timid since tweaking the knee.

gasol started the game with a post move against Landry and had acouple more in the first half. No matter what the ball still needs to go inside and run the triangle, that usually results in a hand offs or a cutter but more importantly it keeps the big guys happy and involved in the game. When kobes starts taking ill advise shots it takes the big guys out of the game and they dont do as well on the defensive side of the court. but your probably right about drew being timid, i bet that had a lot to do with the rebound differential

[kobeaki]

while it sucks to be in the best of three position, i dont feel too awful about this, it was a slugfest..and a good game...

[DEEP3CL]

Breath easy fellas, the old saying goes....."No rebounds, no rings". Tonight we didn't rebound or play defense. Also we didn't stay in the system, we always get in trouble when we stray. Shannon is chief of this. Like I said we beat the Hornets all day when we play D, rebound, pound the middle and move the rock. We did all this in Game 3 and dominated, this team has a major problem of remembering what makes them tic.

[stunnar0b]

its like the lakers forget who ther're playing against and just play regular defense, man these lakers are so damn cocky, where all they got to do is show up and its an automatic win. just once i want to see this team go by the scouting report, follow the game plan and for goodness sake play to your **** strengths through out the game. Is that too much to ask for geeez goodnight...

[Kalidogg24]

Back home for the next one. All Tied up and last time the Lakers were in this situation where they Lost Game 1 , win the next two , lose game 4 coming back home for game 5 was against CARL LANDRY and the Rockets. Oh yeah and some dude named RON ARTEST .

Landry , Jarret Jack, Luke Ridnour, Craig Smith, Ramon Sessions and other cats like that always have their ways with the Lakers.

In these two losses to N.O ,
I noticed we were just flat out horrible on the defensive end and we missed a ton of momentum changing free throws.
Plus anytime CP3 drops a triple double , it normally doesn't end up good for the opposition.

Monday, Lakers back to the drawing board in El Segundo .

[semi-sentient]

Kobe sucked tonight... He almost redeamed himself in the 3rd. But this might be one of his worst over-all performances... Especially in the playoffs. Don't let the points he got in the third and at the line cloud it...

Agreed. He did a great job of distributing the ball in the first half, but he couldn't hit a shot to save his life. That's not what hurt us though. It was his non-existent defense on Ariza/CP3 that essentially killed our momentum early on, and our bigs were nowhere to be found underneath when help was needed (an essential part of our defensive strategy).

But everyone should take they're Pau hater glasses off and rewatch the beginning of this game and how much of a force Pau was at the start.

It's not how you start, but how you finish. Pau was nowhere to be found in the 2nd half and that was largely his fault.

His disappearing act seemed to come just about at the same time Kobe started demanding the ball everytime down the court...

His disappearing act occurred when our bench came in. They were making a concerted effort to establish him in the post and he continually kicked the ball back out for long ass jump shots. That was with Kobe out of the game, so he has no one to blame but himself.

Kobe didn't check into the 4th quarter until the 7:13 mark, and Pau took exactly ZERO shots during that time. Instead we saw Barnes and Brown go a combined 1-5 to get us in a hole, and that's because Pau put them in that position instead of taking it strong to the basket. I don't even need to watch replays because I remember cussing at the television about Pau continually passing the ball back out. It was frustrating as hell. He's our 2nd option overall, and when Kobe's not in the game, our 1st option. He has to start playing like it if we're going win another championship. I know I don't want to rest my hopes on Brown and Barnes taking long, contested jumpers, that's for damn sure.

[stunnar0b]

Phil Jackson called the laker players a bunch of bitches.. you gotta love it

[Kilroy]

His disappearing act seemed to come just about at the same time Kobe started demanding the ball everytime down the court...

His disappearing act occurred when our bench came in. They were making a concerted effort to establish him in the post and he continually kicked the ball back out for long ass jump shots. That was with Kobe out of the game, so he has no one to blame but himself.

Kobe didn't check into the 4th quarter until the 7:13 mark, and Pau took exactly ZERO shots during that time. Instead we saw Barnes and Brown go a combined 1-5 to get us in a hole, and that's because Pau put them in that position instead of taking it strong to the basket. I don't even need to watch replays because I remember cussing at the television about Pau continually passing the ball back out. It was frustrating as hell. He's our 2nd option overall, and when Kobe's not in the game, our 1st option. He has to start playing like it if we're going win another championship. I know I don't want to rest my hopes on Brown and Barnes taking long, contested jumpers, that's for damn sure.

I've calmed down a bit... And my original post was largely a reaction to a few posters indicating that Kobe needed to get on Pau for not showing up... Point being, Kobe needs to show up before he calls anyone out. Assists aside, he slept through most of the game.

The point above though is a little off in my opinion because you can't just take the 4th into account.

You have to look at the 3rd when Kobe abandoned the offense and started focusing on his personal battle with Ariza and Paul. He spent most of the quarter isolating, taking quick shots and only passing as a last resort.
It sucked the air out of the offense and I'm pretty sure that's why Phil sat him for so long.

I agree that Pau's struggles started when he was substituted... He shouldn't have been. He was easily outplaying Bynum at that point. I guess they figured we needed to get Bynum going so they'd let him get the paint to himself.

No question it was a team loss... But it's been Kobe's team. He always takes the lion's share of the credit for successes and is prone to call out team-mates when they fail...

Last night he clearly needed to be called out and was by far the worse offender as far as not showing up with some fire and urgency. Even when he had some shots fall in the 3rd, he did it Kobe's way and he still seemed to be only partially focused on the game.

Food for thought... Kobe and Pau finished with roughly the same numbers (3blks vs 4 more assists etc...)...
You can say some of Paus points were garbage... But if you do that, you have to say the same about Kobe's stats.

You can complain about Pau passing the ball back out when they feed him, but most of the time that happens, it's like the first or second pass out of the triangle... I think he's just doesn't want to take a contested shot, far from the basket, with 20secs or so left on the clock. Especially if Kobe's demanding the ball so he can isolate...

[KB24TBOTB]

Phil Jackson called the laker players a bunch of bitches.. you gotta love it

Post game interview? What exactly did he say

[semi-sentient]

Phil Jackson called the laker players a bunch of bitches.. you gotta love it

Did he really??? lol... that's awesome if he did.

[semi-sentient]

The point above though is a little off in my opinion because you can't just take the 4th into account.

The 4th quarter was Pau's time to shine though, and we really needed him to carry the team while Kobe took a breather.

You have to look at the 3rd when Kobe abandoned the offense and started focusing on his personal battle with Ariza and Paul. He spent most of the quarter isolating, taking quick shots and only passing as a last resort. It sucked the air out of the offense and I'm pretty sure that's why Phil sat him for so long.

I thought we were fine in the 3rd quarter. We were down by 9 early on (before Kobe started going off) and that aggressiveness swung the momentum in our direction. Kobe is the focal point of our offense, so I don't particularly have a problem with him going on those scoring bursts when we start getting into trouble -- and we were getting into trouble.

The problem is that we didn't maintain that momentum when we started off the 4th, and because of that we got too far behind when Kobe was on the bench.

Also, Phil sat Kobe for as long as he did because he played the entire 3rd. Phil would normally rest him with a minute or so left and bring him back around the 8 minute mark, but I think he was riding Kobe's aggressiveness for as long as he could.

You can complain about Pau passing the ball back out when they feed him, but most of the time that happens, it's like the first or second pass out of the triangle... I think he's just doesn't want to take a contested shot, far from the basket, with 20secs or so left on the clock. Especially if Kobe's demanding the ball so he can isolate...

Pau wasn't that far from the basket though. I mean he had great position a couple of times, and he could have at least made a move and then kicked the ball out instead of just passing it right after receiving the ball. I don't know. I just don't think it's a great idea to give the ball up to guys like Shannon or Barnes with 10 seconds left on the clock and expect anything good to happen. Even if there was more time, I still wouldn't kick it out to them because they aren't going to try to reestablish him in the post. I just got the impression that Pau wanted someone else to make a play, and that's a big mistake because he's actually a better play-maker than those two offensively challenged clowns. He's got to know better.

What he should have done is tried to back his man down and waited for Brown or Barnes to cut, and if not that then make a strong move inside and perhaps kick the ball out for a wide open 3-point attempt. Instead he gave the ball up way too fast and expected them to make something from nothing (which they failed to do), and they were only too happy to oblige.

I just think he's entirely too skilled to not have the ball in his hands more, and he had no problems doing stuff like that in past years. Something is up with him this year. He's just not the same player.

[stunnar0b]

Phil Jackson called the laker players a bunch of bitches.. you gotta love it

Post game interview? What exactly did he say

"We punked out out there on the court tonight".

[KB24TBOTB]

Phil Jackson called the laker players a bunch of bitches.. you gotta love it

Post game interview? What exactly did he say

"We punked out out there on the court tonight".

As true as it gets

[stunnar0b]

@KB24TBOTB

when your own coach is constantly insinuating that your soft, it cant be good for Pau's self-esteem