Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 7

[5DOM]

Evan (Toronto)

You now have Raptors drafting Derrick Williams #1. Is this from what you're hearing from their Front Office?
Chad Ford (1:54 PM)

The Mock Draft is based on sourcing inside teams. However, it's very early in the process. I think they could go either way, but I believe they are leaning toward Williams ... yes.

[MEDIC]

Well Evan Turner was drafted for being NBA ready and ended up not being while Favors was drafted not for his readiness but for his projected long term impact. So I'm not sure there is a specific formula for what you look for in a top 3 pick.

That's exactly why the NBA needs a proper farm system & a deeper draft. We shouldn't have to watch these non-NBA ready players being force fed minutes because they have nowehere else to develop.

Maybe there should be 2 seperate drafts.

An amteur draft (NCAA) & a professional draft (Europe).

In the professional draft, if a player is under contract overseas, he can still declare for the NBA, but it will be his rights that are drafted only (no guaranteed contract)....similar to 2nd round.

After proving himself overseas, he can negotiate a contract with his NBA team.

Are there any other NA professional sports leagues that have to deal with buyout issues because they are drafting players from another professional league? It seems absurd the way the NBA has this whole thing set up.

You can always raise the age limit so players are more developed coming out of college. I suspect that the buyout issue will be brought up in the new CBA discussions. I guess the owners and the player's association didn't foresee that problem back in 2005 when it wasn't as big of an issue.

I'd like to see them raise it to 20 at the very minimum. 22 would be best.

99% of these 18 y/o kids just don't have enough training/ experience or body maturity to be in the league. They need to set the standard higher. If you want to play in our league, you have to prove that you are coachable, a hard worker & that you are the best of the best.

Would you hire an 18 year old to be an engineer & hand him a huge contract because you see the potential of him being a good engineer one day? Give him your biggest project to work on because of his potential? Nobody would do that.

[Rapsobsessed7]

Knight is very intriguing. Its between him and kanter for me. Assuming of course we dont luck into D.Will or Irving.

[MEDIC]

Or they should come at a young age and get acclimated quicker. Kanter seems to have done that.

That's a different situation. He went to highschool here. The NCAA may have ruled him to be ineligible, but I definitely don't see him as a professional player.

[Truthrising]

One thing to consider when discussing Valanciunas is the fact that he was only 6'6 in 2007. So in a little over 3 years he has shot up to 6'11 (minimum), which is why he can come across as a little wobbly at the moment. Once he gets used to his body and puts some more weight on his frame (which I think is actually quite solid, not narrow just underdeveloped) he can be a real force in the paint. His instincts and motor, along with his solid touch and finishing in the paint make him an intriguing prospect, but his physical potential makes him an excellent prospect IMO.

With that said, I believe I would still draft Kanter, depending on his measurements. If he is over 6'10 in shoes (because really, who cares how tall someone is without shoes?) then I tihnk he could form a very good frontcourt partnership with ED. The fact that he is more ready to contribute also gives him extra points in my book over Valanciunas, though I believe the Lithuanian is also a great prospect.

Last time he was measured in at 6'11 at 263 pds. I don't there's an issue for Kanter to play at the C position given his size, he's most likely NBA ready.

Its his wingspan and max-vert.
I don't think he can jump very high, and if his wingspan is short (or standing reach is not high), then I have a concern for his shot blocking ability.

He is a good rebounder, however, this is due to his competition. Yet, he is definitely NBA ready, and can contribute right away with his all-around skills.

I think shotblocking would be the least of my concern, as long as he has the fundamentals to rebound the ball in which case it looks like he does than I wouldn't be all that concerned. I think Kevin Love would probably be the best comparison in terms of size and ability and he has a wingspan of 6'9 compared to Kanter @ 7'1.

[MEDIC]

Evan (Toronto)

You now have Raptors drafting Derrick Williams #1. Is this from what you're hearing from their Front Office?
Chad Ford (1:54 PM)

The Mock Draft is based on sourcing inside teams. However, it's very early in the process. I think they could go either way, but I believe they are leaning toward Williams ... yes.

Interesting. Well, if they see him as having the biggest superstar potential, they have to draft him.

I've said all along that Williams could easily be the consensus 1st overall pick after the workouts are done. I think he has Blake Griffin level talent.

[5DOM]

Would you hire an 18 year old to be an engineer & hand him a huge contract because you see the potential of him being a good engineer one day? Give him your biggest project to work on because of his potential? Nobody would do that.

Would I? Maybe, depending on the individual and how ready he is.
The thing is you can always "choose" not to. Nobody's forcing you to hire an 18 y/o; and even if you do decide to hire him, you don't have to give him a big project right away.

[SDM]

If they pay them while in college, I have no problem with keeping the NBDL as is and raising the age to 20 years old. Simply put, you can't get a job at Subway if you're a star athlete and by the time you're 20, you generally need to start making money to take care of your responsibilities. No one should be denied the opportunity to max their earning potential as soon as possible, especially when the only side that benefits from increasing the eligible age consists of billionaires.

[Hassassin]

First of all, I disagree with your characterization of him as a role player. Secondly, a draft is what it is. No two are alike. This one is the Death Valley of drafts and there is no indication that beyond maybe Irving that there is a game-changing star to be had. Wishing and hoping doesn't make the draft any better. Projecting your fondest hopes on it won't make it better either. It is what it is.

One can argue that every player in the top 10 after Irving and maybe Williams projects to be a high end role player, which isn't terrible from an overall perspective - a high end role player can be a valuable contributor if surrounded with good talent at the other four positions - but is hugely disappointing from our vantage point with a top 5 pick. But that won't change.

We have to suck it up and accept what this draft is.

I think Kanter projects to be a very high end role player. I certainly think that he is more worthy of a 3rd overall selection than Valanciunas . Biyombo, if he realizes his potential, could be among the league leaders in blocked shots. Even a guy like Vesely interests me more than Valanciunas as they both have identical measurements yet one presents mismatch potential while the other IMO doesn't. The draft sucks but I think there are better options available and I haven't even looked at the NCAA kids like Knight and Walker.

[phailing101]

Evan (Toronto)

You now have Raptors drafting Derrick Williams #1. Is this from what you're hearing from their Front Office?
Chad Ford (1:54 PM)

The Mock Draft is based on sourcing inside teams. However, it's very early in the process. I think they could go either way, but I believe they are leaning toward Williams ... yes.

Interesting. Well, if they see him as having the biggest superstar potential, they have to draft him.

I've said all along that Williams could easily be the consensus 1st overall pick after the workouts are done. I think he has Blake Griffin level talent.

Whoa there.

Take a deep breath and put the crack pipe down.

[Dr Positivity]

Well Evan Turner was drafted for being NBA ready and ended up not being while Favors was drafted not for his readiness but for his projected long term impact. So I'm not sure there is a specific formula for what you look for in a top 3 pick.

Plus this is a unique season. We're likely headed to a lockout, and we still need a ton of pieces to contend. So drafting your future starting C and letting play in Europe next year while we flounder our way to 4th-8th worst in a shortened season and collect another asset is not such a terrible idea to me.

Difference is, both those guys have much higher ceilings than Valanciunas. Valanciunas projects to be a role player while the other two didn't.

What I'm trying to get at is, you don't draft guys with role player potential that early.

First of all, I disagree with your characterization of him as a role player. Secondly, a draft is what it is. No two are alike. This one is the Death Valley of drafts and there is no indication that beyond maybe Irving that there is a game-changing star to be had. Wishing and hoping doesn't make the draft any better. Projecting your fondest hopes on it won't make it better either. It is what it is.

One can argue that every player in the top 10 after Irving and maybe Williams projects to be a high end role player, which isn't terrible from an overall perspective - a high end role player can be a valuable contributor if surrounded with good talent at the other four positions - but is hugely disappointing from our vantage point with a top 5 pick. But that won't change.

We have to suck it up and accept what this draft is.

I disagree, this is the perspective that gets taken every year (the top 2-3 are stars, the rest in the top 10 are supporting starters at best) and it's usually proven wrong by a few other 'no star upside' guys in the lotto like Steph Curry, Greg Monroe, Brook Lopez (pre heart removal), Eric Gordon, hopefully Derozan, etc. while the surefire stars like Beas, Mayo and Turner mediocore it up.

I think these guys can make all-star teams:

Knight, Kanter, Terrence Jones, Burks, Reggie Jackson and Marcus Morris can make an all-star team IMO, that's by 3-8 on the big board.

[Dr Positivity]

I really love the 10-17 range in this draft too. DX has Alec Burks, Terrence Jones, both Morris twins, Tristan Thompson, Jordan Hamilton and Jimmer in that range. That's a superb lineup for that range ina draft, I think they all have starting chops in the NBA or very close to it except maybe Markieff Morris and as I mentioned I think Burks, T Jones, and the Morris superior could end up in all-star jerseys. And that's not including Jackson who is #30 on DX right now but is a obvious lotto jump is obvious guy, Ford is already mentioning him as a lotto guy and I expect DX and the overall consensus to follow, just way too talented. I have him as a steal even at the 13th or 14th pick.

I think this draft is more misdiagnosed than bad. What makes it look bad to me is Valanciunas, Kemba, Vesely, Donatas in the top 10 and Biyombo top 3-5. Those are bad prospects for a regular 3-9 lineup. But think the 10-17 guys right now are 3-9 caliber and it'll balance out, if that makes sense. And it could easily just be that by the time of the draft Burks, T Jones, Marcus Morris, Jackson are all sitting pretty in 3-9, and Kemba and Val are out of the top 10 where they belong, things can flip

[xprt]

First of all, I disagree with your characterization of him as a role player. Secondly, a draft is what it is. No two are alike. This one is the Death Valley of drafts and there is no indication that beyond maybe Irving that there is a game-changing star to be had. Wishing and hoping doesn't make the draft any better. Projecting your fondest hopes on it won't make it better either. It is what it is.

One can argue that every player in the top 10 after Irving and maybe Williams projects to be a high end role player, which isn't terrible from an overall perspective - a high end role player can be a valuable contributor if surrounded with good talent at the other four positions - but is hugely disappointing from our vantage point with a top 5 pick. But that won't change.

We have to suck it up and accept what this draft is.

I think Kanter projects to be a very high end role player. I certainly think that he is more worthy of a 3rd overall selection than Valanciunas . Biyombo, if he realizes his potential, could be among the league leaders in blocked shots. Even a guy like Vesely interests me more than Valanciunas as they both have identical measurements yet one presents mismatch potential while the other IMO doesn't. The draft sucks but I think there are better options available and I haven't even looked at the NCAA kids like Knight and Walker.

How is being 7 footer with 7-6 wingspan as average nba center height is 6-11 and 7-1 wingspan is not mismatch?

[bboyskinnylegs]

^^ just to clarify, the average measurements for all drafted NBA C's is 6'10.64" without shoes, 254lbs, 7'3.7" wingspan, with a 9'2.6" standing reach.

[Hassassin]

First of all, I disagree with your characterization of him as a role player. Secondly, a draft is what it is. No two are alike. This one is the Death Valley of drafts and there is no indication that beyond maybe Irving that there is a game-changing star to be had. Wishing and hoping doesn't make the draft any better. Projecting your fondest hopes on it won't make it better either. It is what it is.

One can argue that every player in the top 10 after Irving and maybe Williams projects to be a high end role player, which isn't terrible from an overall perspective - a high end role player can be a valuable contributor if surrounded with good talent at the other four positions - but is hugely disappointing from our vantage point with a top 5 pick. But that won't change.

We have to suck it up and accept what this draft is.

I think Kanter projects to be a very high end role player. I certainly think that he is more worthy of a 3rd overall selection than Valanciunas . Biyombo, if he realizes his potential, could be among the league leaders in blocked shots. Even a guy like Vesely interests me more than Valanciunas as they both have identical measurements yet one presents mismatch potential while the other IMO doesn't. The draft sucks but I think there are better options available and I haven't even looked at the NCAA kids like Knight and Walker.

How is being 7 footer with 7-6 wingspan, as average nba center height is 6-11 and 7-1 wingspan, is not mismatch?

EDIT: NVM, couldn't figure out what you were trying to say but now I got it.

I was comparing Vesely to Valanciunas. Both are identical in size, length and wingspan. Vesely has shown that he has some perimeter skills playing SF in Europe. Valanciunas obviously hasn't. If you stick Vesely at 5, you would probably get similar results. And I'll also add, mismatch potential necessarily depend on physical characteristics.

[Dr Positivity]

I fell off the Vesely wagon a few weeks ago when I realized he was 21 and has basically no perimeter skills yet, at that age you're not developing any - and that his footspeed defending SFs is not as good as I thought after reading some Euro poster takes on it, they were saying undersized PF at the next level

I think his comparison is Euro Gerald Wallace (big SF or small PF with no offensive skill but monster athleticism and energy). But it sounds like Vesely might not be as quick laterally as Wallace, nor as strong. He could be a big time bust if he comes in and doesn't have offensive game, and is just a hustle rebounder tweener

[Hassassin]

I fell off the Vesely wagon a few weeks ago when I realized he was 21 and has basically no perimeter skills yet, and that his footspeed defending SFs is not as good as I thought after reading some Euro poster takes on it, he might be an undersized PF at the next level

I think his comparison is Euro Gerald Wallace (big SF or small PF with no offensive skill but monster athleticism and energy). But it sounds like Vesely might not be as quick laterally as Wallace, nor as strong. He could be a big time bust if he comes in and doesn't have offensive game, and is just a hustle rebounder tweener

I don't think anyone considers Vesely a SF at the NBA level. He is 6'11 and 240 pounds. He's no small PF. He plays SF because his team needs him to.

[fredericklove]

I'd rather have TJ than Vesely. TJ seems to have a better skill-set.

[xprt]

I fell off the Vesely wagon a few weeks ago when I realized he was 21 and has basically no perimeter skills yet, and that his footspeed defending SFs is not as good as I thought after reading some Euro poster takes on it, he might be an undersized PF at the next level

I think his comparison is Euro Gerald Wallace (big SF or small PF with no offensive skill but monster athleticism and energy). But it sounds like Vesely might not be as quick laterally as Wallace, nor as strong. He could be a big time bust if he comes in and doesn't have offensive game, and is just a hustle rebounder tweener

I don't think anyone considers Vesely a SF at the NBA level. He is 6'11 and 240 pounds. He's no small PF. He plays SF because his team needs him to.

On offence he could play SF and take his advantage as being bigger than typical SF and 6'11 definetly is not undersized 6'9 yes 6'11 no.

[darth_federer]

There should be a new draft thread