David Stern: Kobe in Conversation with Jordan as Best Ever

[kblo247]

Almost @ the end - http://c.espnradio.com/audio/580361/gen ... 173501.mp3

Thought it was cool to hear, but he needs to send the memo to the refs to get the man some calls on his drives.

[Leor_77]

Thanks for the link!

[snaquille oatmeal]

This thread can't end well....

[Leor_77]

I have to be honest, though...MJ is the greatest ever. As much as I like Kobe, when you compare them side by side, Jordan has superior stats and has more accolades (Def. player of the year, MVP's, Finals MVP's). He's not there yet, but maybe he can be by the end of his career.

[kblo247]

Interviewer tried the cliches
~ Jordan never lost in the Finals
~ Jordan never had Shaq


Stern hit him with
~ Kobe has still been in the Finals more and won 5 rings
~ Kobe never had Pippen and Rodman

Then he finished it up with how come Russell or Magic or Bird aren't talked about for what they had or didn't have, or how they lost? He out right said Kobe is great and should be right next to Jordan in that conversation after all he has done and accomplished.

He also noted that he isn't sorry Phil is leaving yet because he refuses to believe he will retire and leave the NBA, he just can't see it happening

[kblo247]

I have to be honest, though...MJ is the greatest ever. As much as I like Kobe, when you compare them side by side, Jordan has superior stats and has more accolades (Def. player of the year, MVP's, Finals MVP's). He's not there yet, but maybe he can be by the end of his career.

No doubt about the numbers and him not being there yet, but part of me always wonders what Kobe's looks like with more freedom early in his career.

I mean Kobe has played more games and season minutes in the regular and postseason, yet he is still way short of the field gold and free throw attempts that Jordan had by hundreds. That is why I never got the he is a chucker argument some use. The only shot Kobe has attempted more than Jordan is the 3 ball because he can hit the bull **** 30 footers and has played with bigs who clog up the paint.



Even though I always wonder about what the numbers could be, I'll take the 5 rings, 7 finals, and more seasons than any Laker everyday of the week though

[The Laker Kid]

Mamba doesn't want his praises. Mamba wants his $100K back.

[kblo247]

LOL

[Apt906]

The G.O.A.T that doesn't have a ring if u take out shaq and gasoll lol

official warning for trolling
snaq
-on your second post!....really?????

[bruddahmanmatt]

The G.O.A.T that doesn't have a ring if u take out shaq and gasoll lol

What an idiot.

Were you listening to the OP's story Donny? Were you listening to the OP's story? So you have no frame of reference. You're like a child that wanders into the middle of a movie and...WALTER, WTF ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?

[semi-sentient]

I have to be honest, though...MJ is the greatest ever. As much as I like Kobe, when you compare them side by side, Jordan has superior stats and has more accolades (Def. player of the year, MVP's, Finals MVP's). He's not there yet, but maybe he can be by the end of his career.

Stats don't even matter. I don't think there's a huge difference or anything, but Jordan was clearly a better all around player. Kobe is Jordan's equal in many areas, but I can't really think of anything outside of having more range that Kobe is actually better at. What I do know is that Jordan was a slightly better defender (peak vs. peak), his decision-making was much better (which is partially why he was more efficient overall as well as being a better playoff performer), and he was stronger and more athletic.

As far as accolades are concerned, Kobe isn't even close to Jordan. It's really, really lopsided in Jordan's favor.

That DPOY is complete BS though. He didn't deserve that at all.

Anyway, Kobe is not in the conversation as best ever. Only Jordan and Kareem are. He's in the conversation as ONE OF THE best ever, but he has absolutely no argument for best ever. He doesn't even have an argument for being better than Magic or Russell in terms of greatness. Everyone else is fair game though -- although I wouldn't really try to argue that he's any higher than 8 or 9 on the all-time list.

[H00PDREAMS]

I honestly believe Kobe wants his legacy to be that his career as a player is among the best. He would like US as fans to argue who was better Jordan or him (Kobe). He wants to be in that conversation. He knows he can't be THE best in everyone's mind but when you say who is the best he wants our minds to consider his career among the Magic's and Kareem's.

People have to understand when Kobe is on the floor he is playing against Legends and Ghosts of Legends. His only true rival on the court is Time and ultimately his own mortality.

[Sedale Threatt]

That DPOY is complete BS though. He didn't deserve that at all.

3.2 steals and 1.6 blocks, with great man defense, while you're expending massive amounts of energy scoring 35 a game is pretty awesome, though, no?

[semi-sentient]

That DPOY is complete BS though. He didn't deserve that at all.

3.2 steals and 1.6 blocks, with great man defense, while you're expending massive amounts of energy scoring 35 a game is pretty awesome, though, no?

His stats were awesome, but to me that's not what it should be based on. While he was pretty clearly the best wing defender in the league, he wasn't the best overall defensive player (and that's obviously my opinion, which is debatable). To me, that was Olajuwan who put up 12.1 REB, 2.1 STL, 2.7 BLKS -- in 36 MPG (as opposed to Jordan's 5.5 REB, 3.2 STL, and 1.6 BLK). Beyond stats though, it's the big vs. small argument. Hakeem's ability to control the paint and be the last line of defense is more impactful then what Jordan brought to the table. I think this came up in the RPOY and that seemed to be the consensus (IIRC). Prior to that, I never really gave it much thought and accepted it for what it was.

Of course, the Rockets were actually worse than the Bulls in terms of defensive rating, so perhaps that needs to get factored in as well.

I guess it's really difficult to know for sure because I can't sit here and say I remember every single game that both played, but I would personally never vote a wing player for DPOY when there are equally great defensive bigs in the conversation.

Edit: And when I say slightly better than Kobe, it's because I don't think a player can be worlds better than another elite defensive player. He was quicker and more athletic, so that allowed him to be a better defender. I haven't seen any real instinctual differences and both players went from elite to good to mediocre and living off of rep. There are those that would argue Jordan was a much better defender, but to me "much better" is the difference between Robinson and Ewing.

[chefy]

MJ's advantage to Kobe is he reads the game better, he has higher bball IQ than Kobe, better defense, rebounder, and hes more athletic.

talent wise Kobe is on par with MJ. no doubt Kobe would have been a career 30-5-5 player if he had been the first option his entire career.

maybe even better if he got the Jordan treatment. Jordan's the most protected basketball player ever! no player have gotten that much babying from the refs in the history of the nba.

only time I remember Kobe receiving the Jordan treatment was in the 08 playoffs, when Kobe won the mvp. but then it stopped when we reached the finals and we played the Celtics.

add in the media. Jordan is the ultimate media darling.


I also think Kobe is a better, more explosive, and skiled scorer than MJ, but MJ is more efficient and consistent.

[Sedale Threatt]

...

Don't get me wrong -- Dream was great. GREAT. But other than the steals, you can kind of expect those numbers from a big.

With Jordan, those blocked shot totals are just ridiculous. I know there's a lot more to being a great defender than that, most of which cannot be measured statistically. But in this case, I think it shows the type of athletic ability, activity and intelligence Jordan had. That was something I'm pretty sure no guard had ever done, and still hasn't.

So while Dream might have been the better choice, I don't think he was the only choice.

[semi-sentient]

talent wise Kobe is on par with MJ. no doubt Kobe would have been a career 30-5-5 player if he had been the first option his entire career.

maybe even better if he got the Jordan treatment. Jordan's the most protected basketball player ever! no player have gotten that much babying from the refs in the history of the nba.

I think that's pretty close to accurate. Kobe wouldn't be as efficient though. That's where his inferior decision-making comes into play.

The other areas would be rebounding and play-making, and I really see no difference between the two. Kobe does have a tendency to turn the ball over more, but that's a minor thing considering Pippen set up the offense and Jordan played off the ball more.

I can't over-emphasize how big of a difference there is in decision-making though. I went back through Jordan's career and watched a lot of playoff footage from his rookie season until he retired, and he was just awesome in the playoffs. He almost always made the right play, and he rarely settled for overly difficult shots the way that Kobe does. He wasn't defended as well though, so perhaps that's a part of it. There just weren't many great wing defenders back then, and Jordan was typically worlds more athletic than the guy guarding him.

[semi-sentient]

So while Dream might have been the better choice, I don't think he was the only choice.

You're right. I threw a little homerism in there with the "BS" comment. Jordan was a worthy candidate, but I'd have gone with Hakeem. I don't know how Eaton ended up the runner-up either.

[Pablo Escobar]

Gen board is going to go CRAZY

[semi-sentient]

BTW, thought I'd share this bit of research that I did recently.

Jordan is 8-16 in game-winning shot attempts in the playoffs.

Kobe is 6-19 using the same criteria (he's gone 0-4 the last 2 years, but he's playing with a lot more mileage).