Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 7

TheRealDeal · Post #1981 » by **TheRealDeal** » Sat Apr 30, 2011 5:52 am

The Grizz/Spurs series showed how huge of an advantage it is to have a productive 5 with size & length. San Antonio couldn't stop Marc Gasol in the post and Z-Bo got his shot off whenever he wanted. They killed the Spurs on the boards which lead to a bunch of 2nd chance points. Teams always reach for bigs in the draft because talented centers don't come around very often. If we feel like one of the center prospect has the chance to be an impact player then I'll be happy if we take one in the 3-5 range. I'd rather take a chance on then settle for an average PG or SF.

Mr.Raptorsingh · Post #1982 » by **Mr.Raptorsingh** » Sat Apr 30, 2011 6:43 am

TheRealDeal wrote:The Grizz/Spurs series showed how huge of an advantage it is to have a productive 5 with size & length. San Antonio couldn't stop Marc Gasol in the post and Z-Bo got his shot off whenever he wanted. They killed the Spurs on the boards which lead to a bunch of 2nd chance points. Teams always reach for bigs in the draft because talented centers don't come around very often. If we feel like one of the center prospect has the chance to be an impact player then I'll be happy if we take one in the 3-5 range. I'd rather take a chance on then settle for an average PG or SF.

Definitely. The Grizzlies model is certainly one way to build a team, and really, it's probably something that all teams look for - a strong 2-way interior.

On that note, I was surfing the DraftExpress site, reading up on other big man prospects, aside from Kanter, Biyombo, and Valanciunas, and one guy that caught my attention, looking at his numbers, is Nikola Vucevic, a teammate of DeMar DeRozan's back when both were freshman at USC.

Check out his numbers this past season: 17.1 ppg, 10.3 rpg. 1.4 bpg, 50.5 FG%, 35 3pt FG%, 76 FT%. This was his junior year. In his sophomore year, he averaged 9.4 rpg. So, we know he can rebound.

Vucevic is listed at 6-10'', 240 lbs., but watch him here in this video:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoQHkm6CkNk&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]

He looks pretty big with some nice length. As you probably saw, that was DeMar DeRozan there feeding Vucevic off the drive-n-dish. DeMar probably knows his game fairly well, playing with him in practice, and in limited time, in actual games (Vucevic didn't play much as a freshman). But, you know, he's got some skill down there in the low post.

He's currently slated to go in the 2nd rd., 38th overall prospect in DraftExpress' top 100. I didn't watch many USC games, so I haven't seen him play much, but he seems pretty intriguing, when you factor in his production, supposed skill level, and potential.

He also went to Stonebridge, same HS as Kanter.

This is a little summary of how he did in the U-20 European championships:

While the jury is still very much up in the air regarding his long-term outlook, it cannot be ignored just how big of an impact Nikola Vucevic made game after game, coming up with six double-doubles in his first seven contests.

Vucevic has a strong and solid frame with decent body balance and hands. On the other hand, he’s not incredibly athletic, showing average agility and mobility getting up and down the floor. He definitely needs to play with more intensity and become tougher overall. Although he was the tournament’s leading rebounder (10.8) and shotblocker (1.9), he still has room to improve in these areas, as his numbers at the junior categories rely heavily on his superior size, positioning and timing.

Offensively he was a clear go-to-guy for his team in the low post, where played very confidently and showed intriguing potential. He knows how to establish position down low, converting an impressive 59% of his 2-pointers, and showing nice passing skills out of the paint as well. As far as his face-up game is concerned, he showed solid ball-handling skills, but was very inconsistent with his mid-range jumper. That didn’t stop him from attempting a surprising amount of 3-pointers, of which he converted only 21%.

Looking at his all-around performance in Rhodes, Vucevic was a very consistent presence for his team as both a scorer and rebounder. It will be interesting to see how his production will translate back to the college setting, as USC will need him to have a big impact this season considering the depth of their roster.

From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Nik ... z1KzB2v5cP
http://www.draftexpress.com

I read up on Vucevic because he seems pretty intriguing to me. But then, he's only a 2nd rd'r in the eyes of DraftExpress. I'm kind of curious as to why he isn't ranked higher. Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating something absurd like taking him with our pick, but let's say we win the lottery, and land Irving. I wouldn't mind picking up another pick for this guy, or a Lucas Nogueira.

What ya think?

WhatsaTDot · Post #1983 » by **WhatsaTDot** » Sat Apr 30, 2011 7:49 am

Mr.Raptorsingh wrote:What ya think?

Does he have a hot girlfriend?
Will she attend home games?

asdfgh · Post #1984 » by **asdfgh** » Sat Apr 30, 2011 8:09 am

I think Vucevic will be a first rounder. Him and Tristan Thompson are the best defensive 4-5s in the draft.

TheRealDeal · Post #1985 » by **TheRealDeal** » Sat Apr 30, 2011 8:35 am

Mr.Raptorsingh wrote:
TheRealDeal wrote:The Grizz/Spurs series showed how huge of an advantage it is to have a productive 5 with size & length. San Antonio couldn't stop Marc Gasol in the post and Z-Bo got his shot off whenever he wanted. They killed the Spurs on the boards which lead to a bunch of 2nd chance points. Teams always reach for bigs in the draft because talented centers don't come around very often. If we feel like one of the center prospect has the chance to be an impact player then I'll be happy if we take one in the 3-5 range. I'd rather take a chance on then settle for an average PG or SF.

Definitely. The Grizzlies model is certainly one way to build a team, and really, it's probably something that all teams look for - a strong 2-way interior.

yep

- LA wouldn't have won the past 2 titles without the overwhelming size advantage Bynum & Gasol give them down low (size w/o having to sacrifice talent)

- Boston won in '08 with KG & Perkins dominating defensively in the paint

- San Antonio's dynasty began with 3 title wins thanks to the Twin Towers

- Detroit did it with D in '04. Their best defender was 4X defensive P.O.Y. center Ben Wallace

- Shaq was absolutely unstoppable during his 3-peat with the Lakers, winning all 3 Finals MVP's. The Heat also likely wouldn't have won it without his presence against the Mavs.

- Houston won back-to-back titles w/ all-time blocks leader Hakeem Olajuwon. If he wasn't there Patrick Ewing probably would've taken them.

I'm not saying anyone in this draft compares to those legends, just that we need a good big to have a chance one day. Young big men aren't a bad thing to stock up on by any means. One of them will likely pan out and if we hit the jackpot with the right pair then we're built for the playoffs (and hopefully contending eventually). Serviceable guards and forwards are a dime a dozen so if Kyrie & Derrick are gone I'd rather take a chance on a talented, potentially dominant big man. Might as well go with a high risk but potentially very high reward type player in a bad draft. Isn't anyone else tired of the crappy 5's this team has put out there over the years?

Indeed · Post #1986 » by **Indeed** » Sat Apr 30, 2011 11:55 am

TheRealDeal wrote:
Mr.Raptorsingh wrote:
TheRealDeal wrote:The Grizz/Spurs series showed how huge of an advantage it is to have a productive 5 with size & length. San Antonio couldn't stop Marc Gasol in the post and Z-Bo got his shot off whenever he wanted. They killed the Spurs on the boards which lead to a bunch of 2nd chance points. Teams always reach for bigs in the draft because talented centers don't come around very often. If we feel like one of the center prospect has the chance to be an impact player then I'll be happy if we take one in the 3-5 range. I'd rather take a chance on then settle for an average PG or SF.

Definitely. The Grizzlies model is certainly one way to build a team, and really, it's probably something that all teams look for - a strong 2-way interior.

yep

- LA wouldn't have won the past 2 titles without the overwhelming size advantage Bynum & Gasol give them down low (size w/o having to sacrifice talent)

- Boston won in '08 with KG & Perkins dominating defensively in the paint

- San Antonio's dynasty began with 3 title wins thanks to the Twin Towers

- Detroit did it with D in '04. Their best defender was 4X defensive P.O.Y. center Ben Wallace

- Shaq was absolutely unstoppable during his 3-peat with the Lakers, winning all 3 Finals MVP's. The Heat also likely wouldn't have won it without his presence against the Mavs.

- Houston won back-to-back titles w/ all-time blocks leader Hakeem Olajuwon. If he wasn't there Patrick Ewing probably would've taken them.

I'm not saying anyone in this draft compares to those legends, just that we need a good big to have a chance one day. Young big men aren't a bad thing to stock up on by any means. One of them will likely pan out and if we hit the jackpot with the right pair then we're built for the playoffs (and hopefully contending eventually). Serviceable guards and forwards are a dime a dozen so if Kyrie & Derrick are gone I'd rather take a chance on a talented, potentially dominant big man. Might as well go with a high risk but potentially very high reward type player in a bad draft. Isn't anyone else tired of the crappy 5's this team has put out there over the years?

You underrated the perimeter defense / lockdown players.
LA - Kobe/Artest
Boston - Rondo
San Antonio - Bowen
Detroit - Prince

ATLTimekeeper · Post #1987 » by **ATLTimekeeper** » Sat Apr 30, 2011 12:40 pm

I think I'm fine passing on Kanter.

Kanter likely will not work out head-to-head with any players between now and the NBA Draft.

Apparently, Kanter's jump shot is really coming along and his mid-range baseline jumper is reportedly "automatic" right now.

Kanter's advisors want to wait and see what happens with the draft lottery. They only want Kanter to work out for teams that are drafting in the top 5-7 range, but more importantly they want to be selective of which teams Kanter works out for so that they can find teams that would be an ideal fit.

This has no bearing on whether I think he'll be a good player or not, I just think his camp has too much control right now for someone who hasn't proven anything.

bboyskinnylegs · Post #1988 » by **bboyskinnylegs** » Sat Apr 30, 2011 12:50 pm

^^ yeah, I just read that. I hope we don't hear of any issues regarding which team he gets picked by (like we did with Rubio in 2009)

A source told me that Enes Kanter will not work out for any NBA teams until after the draft lottery, which takes place May 17. NBA teams have requested to watch Enes Kanter work out at ATTACK Athletics in Chicago, but no teams have been allowed in to watch him play. Kanter likely will not work out head-to-head with any players between now and the NBA Draft.

http://www.thehoopsreport.com/article.aspx?id=710

Also said that Motiejunas won't be able to workout because his team is in the playoffs.

ATLTimekeeper · Post #1989 » by **ATLTimekeeper** » Sat Apr 30, 2011 2:34 pm

I just think it reflects poorly on the player. I prefer guys that aren't afraid to earn their spot, aren't afraid to go anywhere, knowing that they'll be the solution.

The thing is, if Kanter busts, what's your excuse? He was basically dodging every competitive environment over the past year. He wouldn't do the Nike Hoop Summit again, he wouldn't sign with a European or DLeague team even after he knew he wasn't going to be allowed to play for Kentucky. Now he wants to chose his team and show them some baseline jumpers...

Comeatme_Bro · Post #1990 » by **Comeatme_Bro** » Sat Apr 30, 2011 2:46 pm

Didn't DeMar also refuse to work out head to head with other players? Regardless, would have been nice to see what kanter can do against the other bigs in this draft.

Xixak · Post #1991 » by **Xixak** » Sat Apr 30, 2011 2:55 pm

Okay I think we need to face the facts guys. The only way this team gets into contention is by getting superstar players, I mean just look at what could possibly happen in our division.

Knicks sign CP3 in 2012 offseason and Chandler in 2011:
PG: Chris Paul
SG: Landry Fields
SF: Carmelo Anthony
PF: Amar'e Stoudemire
C: Tyson Chandler

Nets buyout Outlaw, trade Morrow + 2012 1st for OJ Mayo, sign AK47 and David West. Ship Lopez + picks and young'uns for Dwight.
PG: Deron Williams
SG: OJ Mayo
SF: Andrei Kirilenko
PF: David West
C: Dwight Howard

Celtics lose Ray Allen, resign Jeff Green, sign center in 2011 or 2012
PG: Rajon Rondo
SG: Paul Pierce (bear with me, out of position I know)
SF: Jeff Green
PF: Kevin Garnett
C: Free Agency

Philadelphia stands pat.
PG: Jrue Holiday
SG: Evan Turner
SF: Andre Iguodala
PF: Elton Brand
C: Spencer Hawes

Without significant changes to our team, we at best finish 4th in the division in the 2012-2013 season. Our only chance is to gamble and acquire superstar players and pair them on the same teams. We saw OKC do a bit of this by drafting Russell Westbrook (a guy who was believed to be incapable of playing PG when he was drafted).

Personally I pray we get the 1st or 2nd pick. If not, barring some kind of miraculous trade-down, we need to grab Brandon Knight. He's the only player outside of Kyrie and Derrick with any sort of superstar potential. This would also probably keep us irrelevant for another year, but there's a chance that Knight pans out into a star (along with DeRozan), giving us one of the best backcourts in the league.

bboyskinnylegs · Post #1992 » by **bboyskinnylegs** » Sat Apr 30, 2011 3:24 pm

Comeatme_Bro wrote:Didn't DeMar also refuse to work out head to head with other players? Regardless, would have been nice to see what kanter can do against the other bigs in this draft.

the not working out head to head is common for guys projected to go high in the draft (although in Kanter's case it could be beneficial since he hasn't played all year), but the potential concern with this is the stuff about him being selective about which teams he works out with because of the potential fit. The last time we heard a lot about a guy trying to be picky about his destination was Rubio :-?

TDotRep · Post #1993 » by **TDotRep** » Sat Apr 30, 2011 3:25 pm

raptor jesus wrote:Burks really reminds me of Jamal Crawford. His skill set is tantalizing. If he commits to defense and improving his J, he could be a stud. Especially in a league where great slashers are typically greatly rewarded.

Not Demar

ATLTimekeeper · Post #1994 » by **ATLTimekeeper** » Sat Apr 30, 2011 4:30 pm

Comeatme_Bro wrote:Didn't DeMar also refuse to work out head to head with other players? Regardless, would have been nice to see what kanter can do against the other bigs in this draft.

Yeah, and I didn't like it then, either. It has nothing to do with the skill of the player, but how competitive they are, how confident they are that they belong near the top. Do you want to prove you can stop the guys you're competing against. I think DeMar still has to answer those questions, btw. The guys at the top almost never compete, but that's because they don't have to. I wouldn't say Kanter is in that boat. He hasn't proven he's a top 3 candidate. Or maybe he doesn't want to. It's possible he's already got a deal cut with a team or two and he's going to try and force his way there. Anyone that's been in bed with Calipari can't be entirely honest. He's already tried to cheat the NCAA, too.

TDotRep · Post #1995 » by **TDotRep** » Sat Apr 30, 2011 5:05 pm

Maybe your overreacting a little bit. Your a teenager coming into the NBA and your agent says it might be best to do these types of workouts like others in the past, you hire an agent trusting in him to do whats best for you, at 18 years old your most likely going to listen to the guy who has been doing this for years. And cheat the NCAA? Read into it a little more I wouldn't be to hard on him in the situation.

ty123 · Post #1996 » by **ty123** » Sat Apr 30, 2011 5:07 pm

Kanter's hiding something.

God Squad · Post #1997 » by **God Squad** » Sat Apr 30, 2011 5:24 pm

I agree. Very sketchy.

McFurious1 · Post #1998 » by **McFurious1** » Sat Apr 30, 2011 5:26 pm

Kanter is just protecting his draft spot just how DeMar did.

God Squad · Post #1999 » by **God Squad** » Sat Apr 30, 2011 5:44 pm

See I understand that. But I think his stock would only go up. He's listed at 7th on DX. I could see him going as early as 3. Like.. I don't see him dropping.

wanker · Post #2000 » by **wanker** » Sat Apr 30, 2011 5:52 pm

It is standard practice for top prospects to be quite selective with workouts. With millions of dollars on the line, why would they not do what is likely best for their stock? Honestly, it's more a question of common sense than anything else. And DX having Kanter at 7 is a joke, just like their having Val at 3.