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Bird's Offseason, a Preview

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Bird's Offseason, a Preview 

Post#1 » by Moooose » Thu Apr 28, 2011 7:11 pm

Saw this on the wiretap as soon as i refreshed the screen.
Whole article and link below:

http://www.indystar.com/article/20110428/SPORTS15/104280388/1062/SPORTS04

For the first time in years, the Indiana Pacers can say "wait till next year" and not have it sound like a threat. A 20-18 regular-season finish and a competitive five-game playoff series loss to the No. 1 seed Chicago Bulls has Indiana fans finally coming out of self-imposed exile.

There is, however, a long way to go for this franchise.

A really long way to go, with a lot of changes still to come before the Pacers become any kind of challenger in the Eastern Conference.

"Anybody who watches us play a little bit and has any basketball IQ knows what we need," team president Larry Bird said Tuesday. "It's no secret. Everybody around the league knows what we're looking for in the draft and free agency."

No. 1: A long, athletic power forward who can score and defend at the basket.

No. 2: Another perimeter scorer (O.J. Mayo?) who can take some of the load off Danny Granger.

So where do you find these guys?

Free agency is always a roll of the dice, especially for a small-market team that isn't a hot spot for young, single athletes. That's particularly true this year with an uninspiring free-agent class. So for the most part, it will have to come through trades, much like the one last year that landed Darren Collison.

"Teams are going to be shedding payroll," Bird said. "With the money we're going to have, we'll be able to do some things this summer. And whatever we can't do, the next summer we'll have another $10 million coming off the (salary) cap."

The greatest improvement has to come from within the roster. Bird gave capsule summaries of several players as they head into an important summer:

Roy Hibbert has to continue getting stronger. "It's always going to be about his strength," Bird said. "But he'll be fine. The biggest problem is he gets down on himself."

Regarding Collison, ditto on strength. Once he was deprogrammed after months under fired coach Jim O'Brien, he flourished. Next year, he needs to attack more.

Tyler Hansbrough has to develop more ways to score, including developing a left hand and some subtle moves around the hoop. On a 50-plus-win team, he's probably a 25 minutes per game rotation player.

"With him now, it's in-game adjustments," Bird said. "When they switch the way they're playing him, he has a hard time picking it up and adjusting, and he's getting frustrated. But that takes time."

Paul George has to learn how to put the ball on the floor and create more scoring opportunities inside the 3-point arc. That said, Bird loves his work ethic, calling him "one of the five best young guys I've been around in all my years in the game."

Granger had a good playoff series, but Bird felt he took some small steps backward this year and wants to see him step up his game.

"He's a top-30 player," Bird said. "I've always thought he could be an All-Star and he's close, but he's not there yet. I didn't think he was as committed consistently as he's been in the past. It would be really nice if he could be our second scorer.''

Brandon Rush? Somebody has to explain why they picked up his option. My sense is he'll be dealt this summer.

"He's so inconsistent," Bird said. "I hate to see him turn into a role player. All the skills he's got, but he's not consistent."

Lance Stephenson has to have some kind of personal revelation this summer, or he's going to waste a precious gift.

"When he's playing, he's fine and has as much talent as anybody on this team," Bird said. "He's a long shot, but he's my ace in the hole. If we can get him to grow up, he knows how to play . . .

"I know he's a pain in the ass and the guys in the locker room get frustrated with him, but I'm not giving up on him. Unless he does something crazy."

Before anything happens, though, the first domino has to fall, and that involves Bird.

Does he stay or does he go? We spoke for 40 minutes before Tuesday's game; one second, he sounded like he was staying, the next, like he was leaving.

His tenure has been a mixed bag, some hits and some misses, but he has done the big-picture things the Pacers needed, establishing a young nucleus while getting the team out of salary-cap purgatory. He has earned the right to call his own shot here.

Whatever he does, he must do it quickly. Bird would like to remain and do the draft, but it's only fair for a new team president to come in and begin building the team the way he sees fit. And Bird is fine with that.

Once the Bird question is settled, then interim coach Frank Vogel's future can be addressed. By any measure, he has done an amazing job, and I'd like to see him be rewarded.

That said, I've been struck by how nobody on this team, on or off the record, has said, "Absolutely, positively, Frank should get the job." The furthest anybody will go is, "Yes, he's done a very good job."

It's going to be an intriguing summer, one the Pacers have been pointing toward for years.
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Re: Bird's Offseason, a Preview 

Post#2 » by Moooose » Thu Apr 28, 2011 7:37 pm

First up, i never really gave much credit to Bird until i read this. His job isn't easy and all the blame points to him but nonetheless, we're here - here where we want to be. We got here slowly, but this time on much safer grounds.

Anyways, to me, this article says:

1) Bird doesn't see Granger as the next franchise player. We have a Pippen without a Jordan.
2) We would be going after that "Jordan" via trade/s and it would probably involve Rush and picks.
3) If we do trade for a "Jordan", we might also end up with players (fillers) with huge contracts (as a package).
4) Another is we might be really looking at the draft for that athletic, big man, since there's not much free agents to choose from. And we would actually save decent money by doing so.
5) Larry might be seriously looking forward at the 2012 free agency, maybe if we fail to land a primary scoring option this offseason.. Eric Gordon?
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Re: Bird's Offseason, a Preview 

Post#3 » by Starkiller » Thu Apr 28, 2011 8:07 pm

Yes please to Eric Gordon. Oh dear lord that'd be a perfect story.
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Re: Bird's Offseason, a Preview 

Post#4 » by Mountain » Thu Apr 28, 2011 10:48 pm

Since they almost got Mayo at the trade deadline, maybe they can still able to trade for him. Maybe he won't become the "Jordan" to Granger, but I don't think they can find one via trade or in this year free agent. If Mayo can play like he was supposed to, the Pacers would have 2 "Pippen"

At PF, maybe they can sign Anthony Randolph. He's a free agent I think and he won't cost a lot
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Re: Bird's Offseason, a Preview 

Post#5 » by DougInOz » Thu Apr 28, 2011 11:17 pm

Starkiller wrote:Yes please to Eric Gordon. Oh dear lord that'd be a perfect story.


+1, even though I don't have the whole home town kid thing, he seems like exactly the type of player this needs. I want to see Paul and Eric dunking on peoples heads all game. :pray:
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Re: Bird's Offseason, a Preview 

Post#6 » by chube » Thu Apr 28, 2011 11:39 pm

Someone on here once posted a quote from Bird saying, basically to the effect of "we're not going to spend just because we can." The 2012 FA crop is pretty nice with Eric Gordon, Kevin Love and the like. Although Bird took his lumps and some criticism along the way, I think we're really now seeing the payoff to his methods the last couple years.

The one thing I was kind of surprised about was that he had some harsh words for Danny and Lance. Not that they weren't accurate or honest, but I remember him getting on JOB's case in his first press conference post-JOB. But maybe after the season, it'll be different. Plus, Danny is a seasoned pro so he might be able to respond better than younger players like Roy and Paul.

It's been a slow process, but I'm really on board with Larry coming back. He's done a great job and Vogel said it all - Larry has built a quality group of players and people on the roster.

I really do think Larry knows what he's doing - finding Roy at pick #17, Tyler at 13, then-no-name Paul at 10, Lance at 40, and AJ at 52 proves that, plus trading for Darren and only giving up Troy Murphy who has done squadoosh since leaving Indy. For being a small-market team in the middle of an implosion when Larry took over, I think he's done an awesome job.
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Re: Bird's Offseason, a Preview 

Post#7 » by granger05 » Fri Apr 29, 2011 2:32 am

Did you guys watch the press conference this morning (http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/larry_bird_110428.html)? There's a transcript there as well. Bird is very hopeful that Lance can be a great player.

I'm not going to sit here and blame it all on Lance. The one thing we don't have in there is a leader. If I played with Lance I would have no problem. I know Lance Stephenson can play basketball and I would do everything in my power to get him on the court because if he's on the court and he's one of our better players, he wins games for us. I also know that Lance is very immature. I've got a son the same age and it's not all roses every day at the house, either. I'm not giving up on Lance Stephenson. Now, if he does something in the summertime you can always go back and change your mind. But as of right now Lance Stephenson is one heck of a basketball player and I expect him to grow, I expect him to get better and I expect him to do the things necessary to get on the basketball court for us. If he does that, we're going to win basketball games. He's one of the most talented kids we have. But there's some issues there and it's not only him. We've got some veterans in our locker room that were a pain and I addressed that yesterday and we're not having it anymore. It's not like our locker room was a mess every day but off and on different times. When you have 15 players, there's going to be three guys that don't dress. Early in the season, guys didn't know if they were going to be sitting out or if they were going to play. Under Frank, we sort of knew the three guys who weren't going to dress. I think guys knew their roles. I think there was a lot more communication. The last 25-30 games I think Frank did a good job of letting the players know where they stood. But Lance Stephenson is one heck of a basketball player and I say it, I see it every day and I'm not giving up on the young man.


Hmm....I watched this live at the time, and I'm not sure they have everything in the clip now. I recall him mentioning Lance on multiple occasions and every single time he mentioned how talented he is. I also thought he mentioned that there was one other source of locker room conflict, but didn't name names although it was implied it was one of the vets.

Stephenson is a knucklehead, and I'm not sure he'll ever get it, but I like that Bird is hanging onto him. I do think he's a lottery ticket of sorts where he could really make a big difference to the team if he ever makes good on the 1 in a million chance that he grows up a bit and gets his act together.
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Re: Bird's Offseason, a Preview 

Post#8 » by Wizop » Fri Apr 29, 2011 4:02 am

chube wrote:Someone on here once posted a quote from Bird saying, basically to the effect of "we're not going to spend just because we can."


I agree with that notion 100%. you don't buy something you don't need .... digressing for an old joke ... a man will spend $2 for a $1 item he needs and a woman will spend $1 for a $2 item she has no use for ...

but I'm starting to hear rumblings that ownership may tighten the purse strings beyond what Bird would like. I'm also hearing that Bird's wife may prefer him to step back. crossing fingers neither turns out to be problems.
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Re: Bird's Offseason, a Preview 

Post#9 » by jowglenn » Fri Apr 29, 2011 12:42 pm

Yeah I won't be surprised if the ownership says, "hey, we got into the playoffs with this roster... do we really need to add 15 million in salary? Let's not make any big investments yet, let's see if we can improve with what we've got, plus a few cheaper FAs, and then we can decide if we need to spend in 2012"

Especially with this lockout looming over them. Better to stick with the cheapness.

So I expect we may not spend much of our cash on a big FA. We might pull a murphy for collison/posey type deal again - trade posey (and rush, or pick or whatever) for a guy with a 2 or 3 year contract plus some young potential type guy.

Then one cheaper FA, see how cheaply we can re-sign foster/mcbobs/dunleavy (and which ones we really want to re-sign - dunleavy is probably unnecessary, foster may want to go to a win-now team, and he deserves it, so we'd be happy for him.)

Then see how it plays out, see if any major deals come up during the season, then reevaluate in 2012, when there are a much better crop of FAs anyway.

Better to do that than go the disastrous route that Detroit took - "hey let's sign ben gordon and charlie villanueva because we have to spend our cap space somehow... let's also re-sign hamilton for like 4 years, great idea! Better than doing nothing!"

As we've seen, it obviously would have been way way better for detroit to do nothing.

I mean, we were all a little disappointed when Dahntay Jones was our only FA signing, right? Most of us wanted to bring back Jarrett Jack... but in the end, we got in the playoffs anyway, and I'm kind of glad we don't have Jarrett Jack (like him, but we got Collison, and he's cheaper and younger and probably better.)

So remember, even if we don't land our dream scenario (Nene is coming to Indy cheaper than expected! We trade Posey and a 2nd rounder for Varejao! Some idiot team just dumped an amazing young player on us to save money!) we are still on the right track and will have plenty more chances in the coming years to improve this team.
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Re: Bird's Offseason, a Preview 

Post#10 » by jowglenn » Fri Apr 29, 2011 12:43 pm

And if you want to see a real disastrous version of "our young team made the playoffs, we'd better spend a bunch of money now with our cap space to find the missing pieces!" look no further than our poor conference friend Milwaukee, where Drew Gooden, Corey Maggette and John Salmons likely mean nobody will fear the deer for many a year.
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Re: Bird's Offseason, a Preview 

Post#11 » by mizzoupacers » Fri Apr 29, 2011 1:51 pm

jowglenn wrote:nobody will fear the deer for many a year.


Hear, hear!
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Re: Bird's Offseason, a Preview 

Post#12 » by paulgeorge24 » Fri Apr 29, 2011 6:12 pm

I'm pretty sure the organization as a whole sees George as being the guy who will eventually be our go-to-guy. I would not be surprised if as part of a deal for a guy like Eric Gordon, we give up Danny. When Paul gets a bit stronger, he'll probably fit into more of a small forward with his size and length. I'm not opposed to grabbing Mayo for a package of Rush and some others but if we do that, what do you do if Mayo plays like we would ideally hope and PG develops. You're sitting with 3 very good starters at only 2 positions.

Odd man out: Danny. Not saying this summer, because PG is still very raw and could end up being a disappointment (unlikely but still) but in Summer '12, if PG plays well in 11-12, I would not be surprised if Danny is moved.

This summer: If we grab Nene I will be thrilled. Let him share the 4 spot with Tyler, which would let Tyler develop his game a bit more and allow him to be an energy/change of pace guy off the bench where I think he is most effective. I hope we dont have to overpay for him because we have PG, Tyler, Roy, and Collison all expiring in a couple of years. Other than that, I'm not sure I see a guy that would really help our team THAT much. You can make a combination of FA's that would help our depth but none that would fill a significant hole like Nene. I'm still thinking that the only way we pick up a big time player in the next couple years is via trade, so we'll c what happens.
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Re: Bird's Offseason, a Preview 

Post#13 » by Moooose » Fri Apr 29, 2011 7:14 pm

Bird seems "a bit" upset with Danny and i hope it's not because of the locker room issue.
I thought i heard Bird said on his latest interview that "we're lacking a leader", isn't Danny our "leader"?

I have the same thought as the poster above, regarding what might happen if we do land a primary scorer. Granger could become expendable if George develops fast. And trading Danny could actually give the Pacers same-tier players in return.
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Re: Bird's Offseason, a Preview 

Post#14 » by JeffFosters » Sat Apr 30, 2011 10:24 am

I might be the only one who thinks that a big-name addition is not necessary. I know how long the wait has been for the cap-space, but spending up doesn't always deliver extra wins.

Just on MIlwaukee, I noticed that Luc Mbah a Moute is a free-agent, would he be the right player? Milwaukee might not have the money to match a 3 year/$10m offer, or 2 years $8m. He can shoot the ball and rebound effectively for his size, and plays with heart. He is not the answer, but may be quality addition to the mix. Any thoughts?
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Re: Bird's Offseason, a Preview 

Post#15 » by Moooose » Sat Apr 30, 2011 4:21 pm

jarryd3107 wrote:I might be the only one who thinks that a big-name addition is not necessary. I know how long the wait has been for the cap-space, but spending up doesn't always deliver extra wins.

Just on MIlwaukee, I noticed that Luc Mbah a Moute is a free-agent, would he be the right player? Milwaukee might not have the money to match a 3 year/$10m offer, or 2 years $8m. He can shoot the ball and rebound effectively for his size, and plays with heart. He is not the answer, but may be quality addition to the mix. Any thoughts?


You're not the only one who thinks that way about spending the money we have, i believe majority of the guys, and the ideal thing obviously, is to take good care of that money. We spent years trying to clear off some bad contracts and i guess it would be smart not to get there again.

If Mbah a Moute is 6'-11" with a 7'-2" wingspan, i'd say he's got a chance.
He might be cheap and serviceable but he's not what we need. He'll only end up getting little minutes as a reserve behind Hansbrough and probably a BIGGER PF.
We need someone taller than him, and maybe a little more athletic.
A Dale Davis type.

Speaking of Milwaukee, i would love to see CDR in this team if Dunleavy's not gonna get re-signed and let's say a couple of wings in Rush and Dahntay would get traded.
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Re: Bird's Offseason, a Preview 

Post#16 » by chube » Sat Apr 30, 2011 4:29 pm

^^^ Adding a true all-star may or may not end up being the answer, as some teams can recently attest (Charlie Villanueva and Ben Gordon in Detroit, Ben Wallace in Chicago, every recent trade by Orlando, etc.)

Additionally, despite Indy being a great city, it's not a great NBA market for free agents, so we aren't going to get the Amare's, Bosh's, and Carmelo's of the world. So a player most of us are hoping for is Nene. A 4 who can play a 5, rebound, be an inside presence, score without running tons of plays for him, is tough and is still young at about 28 or 29. And we're hoping he's not at the level of a player that is "too good" for Indianapolis.

Small-market teams like us need to follow the 2004 Detroit method. A true team where everybody knows their role. That Pistons team may not even have had a Hall of Famer on their roster. One at most (Billups.)
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Re: Bird's Offseason, a Preview 

Post#17 » by Miller4ever » Sat Apr 30, 2011 4:57 pm

BG and CV were nowhere near all-stars, but yeah, the Knicks will prove your point, I think.
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Re: Bird's Offseason, a Preview 

Post#18 » by Wizop » Sat Apr 30, 2011 6:42 pm

I think this no one will want to live her stuff is way over rated. Ron Artest's family is still here. Al Harrington's half brother is in school in Westfield. Tony Guinn lives here. Rik Smits is still here. I could name any number of retired Colts players who are still here. athletes do choose to live here and raise their children here for the same reasons we choose to live here. no need for an inferiority complex.
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Re: Bird's Offseason, a Preview 

Post#19 » by paulgeorge24 » Sat Apr 30, 2011 7:20 pm

Wizop wrote:I think this no one will want to live her stuff is way over rated. Ron Artest's family is still here. Al Harrington's half brother is in school in Westfield. Tony Guinn lives here. Rik Smits is still here. I could name any number of retired Colts players who are still here. athletes do choose to live here and raise their children here for the same reasons we choose to live here. no need for an inferiority complex.

Argument is invalid. None of the players you listed are in the category of an Amare/Melo/etc. like what was being discussed. Not sure why you're trying to deny a fact that is recognized by everyone including Pacers management (most importantly).
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Re: Bird's Offseason, a Preview 

Post#20 » by Wizop » Sat Apr 30, 2011 10:25 pm

I don't think we have any thoughts of finding an Amare/Melo at the peak of his career this summer. I don't think we need to either. but Reggie never demanded a trade to his home time team in LA. Mark Jackson was way at the top of the career assist list and he was happy here. and as I said in my last message, a lot of players have chosen to keep this as their home even though they play elsewhere. all I'm saying is that the fear is over rated.

if you want to say Dwight Howard would rather stay in Orlando than come here. okay. but do you think we need a Dwight Howard to be 3 or 4 points a game better against Chicago? I don't. and I've never heard Larry Bird say that he didn't think his free agent targets could be convinced to come here. I don't think we're looking for an established star that will demand 20mm a year.

I am not high on bringing in a two guard until we see what PG and Lance can do with another year of experience. yes, I know we almost went for Mayo but maybe the real aim there was to move Rush if he was part of the locker room distractions and maybe the real target was a big from New Orleans whose name never was disclosed.

I'd like to bring in a veteran center with enough experience to be able to help Roy develop but without so much skill to be a threat to his confidence that he's our guy. Jeff is welcome back but I wouldn't angst if he chose to move on. Josh is welcome back and I hope he has a great offseason strength program.

oh, I heard an interesting Josh story. Bird apparently said that Josh plays bad when he plays good. meaning when he starts having a good game scoring he starting trying to do too much like bringing the ball upcourt against pressure.

here's my big question: who besides Al Horford could do for us what Al does for Atlanta? I don't care if the answer is a rookie, a free agent coming off a rookie contract, or a 30 year old who could show Josh what he needed to do to play at his level in a year or three.
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