Farrell and our margin for error in 2012 and beyond

Post #1 » by **Schad** » Sun May 1, 2011 8:12 pm

Management in baseball consists of three primary elements: setting a lineup, managing a bullpen, and staying the hell out of the way. In large part, it's an exercise in restraint...the best managers are those who make the obvious decisions and avoid over-managing for the sake of fluffing their ego. The only saving grace is that even the worst manager has only so much influence over the game.

We may find out, though, as John Farrell might be the worst manager that I've ever witnessed. He sets terrible lineups, makes terrible decisions with the bullpen, and his in-game antics have been painful to watch. And as we're a team that's hoping to compete in coming seasons, that's a big deal; even if the playoffs expand, our margin of error is going to be extremely slim in the AL East.

So, for those following this year...is John Farrell bad enough to impede our chances of competing? Or am I missing something and he's actually a La Russa-esque* genius?

*That's a joke. Tony La Russa is a **** moron.

Randle McMurphy · Post #2 » by **Randle McMurphy** » Sun May 1, 2011 8:22 pm

Depends how good the team is in 2012. They might be good enough that it might not matter what he does.

He's not La Russa, who just does crazy things for the sake of it (to prove his own genius, I guess), but he's been really bad so far.

rarefind · Post #3 » by **rarefind** » Sun May 1, 2011 8:26 pm

not overly worried at this point, he has made some boneheaded decisions to this point but make no mistake, he is a rookie manager. i'm thankful that he has butterfield and wakamatsu to pick their brains a bit but i expect farell to pick it up a bit as he gets to know this team better. aa and his braintrust conducted a meticulous search to even start the hiring process, so i believe farell has the pedigree of being a great manager.

not sure if demarlo hale would have been a better choice, but i still do believe that in farell; the jays have an excellent manager who will be of great importance to this team's success going forward. let's be honest with ourselves here, aside from bautista, lind, escobar and perhaps you can say j.p. our offense has been pretty lethargic to this point. hoping for davis and rivera, and once hill gets back to get back on pace along with the return of travis snider. our starters outside of romero (who has struggled himself) has not been great. drabek has been okay, cecil is the minors, litch has been a middling talent at best and reyes has been terrible.

before we can truly evaluate farell as a manager he needs to have some talent on his 25 man roster. in my opinion it is a accomplishment that this team isn't buried in the east at this point with how difficult our schedule has been.

Randle McMurphy · Post #4 » by **Randle McMurphy** » Sun May 1, 2011 8:27 pm

Crazy things like playing Albert Pujols at 3B right now.

Michael Bradley · Post #5 » by **Michael Bradley** » Sun May 1, 2011 9:47 pm

When the Jays have a good enough team to legitimately compete, they would be better off with a manager like Gaston, who basically just lets the same guys go out there everyday and do their thing. With the current team, they need more of a development managing style, which is clearly not a priority with Jose Molina seemingly being the personal catcher for every starter on the team not named Romero (thereby benching JPA in the process) and Snider being sent down when he could be working out his kinks in the Majors.

Farrell is an awful manager right now. Maybe he gets better in time, he certainly can't get worse, but nothing he has done so far has given me much hope.

Trilogy · Post #6 » by **Trilogy** » Sun May 1, 2011 10:41 pm

He's been crap so far, but it's too early to write him off. It doesn't surprise me that a rookie manager would come in and try to micromanage too much.

He does a lot of very stupid things though.

Post #7 » by **Geddy** » Mon May 2, 2011 12:07 am

Farrell is a rookie manager, but he has been in baseball long enough to know not to do some of the things that he has done up to this point. I hope he can learn quickly from his mistakes and gets his **** together soon enough otherwise it's just going to continue to cost the team in the long run.

Post #8 » by **Duffman100** » Mon May 2, 2011 2:13 am

A month into the season and we're blasting a rookie manager? I agree, he's made some eyebrow raising decisions, but again it's been a month. One month.

Randle McMurphy · Post #9 » by **Randle McMurphy** » Mon May 2, 2011 2:24 am

I don't get all of this "rookie manager" stuff. It doesn't take much more than common baseball sense to manage a baseball game, sense that he should already have from his years in the game.

Post #10 » by **Duffman100** » Mon May 2, 2011 2:35 am

Randle McMurphy wrote:I don't get all of this "rookie manager" stuff. It doesn't take much more than common baseball sense to manage a baseball game, sense that he should already have from his years in the game.

Okay, a month into the season and we're blasting our new manager? Can we give it a bit of time and not become the Raptor board?

Randle McMurphy · Post #11 » by **Randle McMurphy** » Mon May 2, 2011 2:40 am

Duffman100 wrote:
Randle McMurphy wrote:I don't get all of this "rookie manager" stuff. It doesn't take much more than common baseball sense to manage a baseball game, sense that he should already have from his years in the game.

Okay, a month into the season and we're blasting our new manager? Can we give it a bit of time and not become the Raptor board?

If a guy has done stupid things for a month (without learning from any of his mistakes), he deserves to be blasted.

s e n s i · Post #12 » by **s e n s i** » Mon May 2, 2011 2:53 am

Randle McMurphy wrote:I don't get all of this "rookie manager" stuff. It doesn't take much more than common baseball sense to manage a baseball game, sense that he should already have from his years in the game.

Agreed. There have been far too many questionable decisions made by Farrell already, and these aren't things he should only be learning through trial and error now. He's averaging at least a couple of them per series, pretty inexcusable for a man who has been in the game as long as he has.

I wonder how much input Farrell allows from Wakamatsu. Are these baffling decisions a product of the entire staff or purely Farrell himself?

He's pushed the right buttons a few times to our benefit, but he's also pushed the wrong ones - or failed to push anything at all - too frequently so far. I really hope this isn't some trend that we'll have to accept. How awful would it be if we finally had a roster capable of winning it all, except fail to do that because Farrell costs the team a game with a flat out terrible decision, along the lines of trotting out Dotel to face a side of lefties? I'll snap if I ever see that sh*t again. And yea, the personal catcher idea is bullsh*t.

Post #13 » by **Duffman100** » Mon May 2, 2011 3:06 am

Randle McMurphy wrote:
Duffman100 wrote:
Randle McMurphy wrote:I don't get all of this "rookie manager" stuff. It doesn't take much more than common baseball sense to manage a baseball game, sense that he should already have from his years in the game.

Okay, a month into the season and we're blasting our new manager? Can we give it a bit of time and not become the Raptor board?

If a guy has done stupid things for a month (without learning from any of his mistakes), he deserves to be blasted.

It's been a month. Seriously. Yeah, raise an eyebrow, uncomfortable cough, sigh...but give it some time.

righteous015 · Post #14 » by **righteous015** » Mon May 2, 2011 3:14 am

Since this topic was formed, I've been thinking about one thing. Why is it that other managers like Girardi and Francona think the world of him while our own fans are bashing him? Who is right, exactly?

Post #15 » by **Duffman100** » Mon May 2, 2011 3:18 am

righteous015 wrote:Since this topic was formed, I've been thinking about one thing. Why is it that other managers like Girardi and Francona think the world of him while our own fans are bashing him? Who is right, exactly?

Most likely, they are.

There's no patience with fans anymore. Especially those on forums and message boards.

Randle McMurphy · Post #16 » by **Randle McMurphy** » Mon May 2, 2011 3:19 am

righteous015 wrote:Since this topic was formed, I've been thinking about one thing. Why is it that other managers like Girardi and Francona think the world of him while our own fans are bashing him? Who is right, exactly?

The fans that watch the stupid things he does every day are right.

Post #17 » by **Schad** » Mon May 2, 2011 4:23 am

righteous015 wrote:Since this topic was formed, I've been thinking about one thing. Why is it that other managers like Girardi and Francona think the world of him while our own fans are bashing him? Who is right, exactly?

Francona loved him as a pitching coach, and he may well be an excellent pitching coach. However, this is his first gig managing at any level, and it's not going so well. It's possible that he'll settle down over time, but most guys have a style and stick to it. Problem being, his style sucks.

righteous015 · Post #18 » by **righteous015** » Mon May 2, 2011 4:58 am

I guess that clears things up. Well, maybe we should wait til we actually have a healthy and proper line up before we judge him? I actually like his aggressive style. Maybe just a tad bit less running into outs at third base and at home but I like it.

J Dilla · Post #19 » by **J Dilla** » Mon May 2, 2011 5:47 am

This is why I didn't really want a rookie manager on this team.

damadmonk · Post #20 » by **damadmonk** » Mon May 2, 2011 6:56 am

Farrell seems to be the opposite of Cito. Making a lot of decisions vs. the Set it and Forget it philosophy.

I don't mind at this point because its only a month in with the rookie manager. I look at it as he is "testing" his team to see what they can do.

I wouldn't of thought that Hill would have 6 sbs nor Snider with 5 sbs.

In order to see what you have with team, you have to see where the line is on what they can, and cannot do. This will cause a lot of mistakes.

We are going through a development stage. This is going to happen. Next year, his expectations will be much different than this years.