Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 8

[5DOM]

Yea that argument ^ makes absolutely no sense. I hate the fact that people sitting at computers can write off a player based on a few videos, when they have no idea what the guys actually like. Once we actually see some work outs and hear what NBA scouts have to say about him based on those work outs, then we can make a more appropriate analysis of his skill-set. With that said, there are NBA people who have said he's basically a Horford-caliber player - Horford went #3 overall in a pretty good draft - so IF they're right, picking him at #3 isn't a stretch at all.

In addition to the scouts, his coach and team mates have raved about him, saying that if he had the chance to play this season, he would be one of the best big men in NCAA basketbal - similar to, if not better than Sullinger. I'm not saying take their word for it... but please don't disregard it and bring about terrible arguments by stating he's not worthy of a top pick. Who's to say that if he played this season and dominated, he wouldn't be a better prospect then Williams or Irving? Obviously no one can really say anything right now - especially about a guy who hasn't been on the map for a while. I hope he comes into the NBA and plays great, just to put a muzzle on people who have no idea what's going on.

You mean everyone including yourself? lol

[Rhettmatic]

We have no idea at all how good Enes Kanter is. None of us have seen him play outside of YouTube highlights. We have no idea whether he deserves to start, or to play regular minutes, or not to play at all.

We also don't know who will be on the team once they eventually play, so this comment seems completely baseless to me.

That's the nature of drafting. Based on what you now about him, do you draft him 3rd overall? Considering the options, yes.

If those other players didn't drop out? No

Just because he is a third overall in this draft class doesn't make him GOAT and the saving grace at C for this team.

Who are you arguing with? Why did you quote my post and then write a bunch of nonsense that had nothing to do with what I said?

I specifically said I have no idea how good Enes Kanter is, which I think falls considerably short of declaring him the GOAT or saving grace (I haven't actually seen anyone argue either of those things, though that's quite the subtle strawman you've constructed).

I said that you haven't seen him play, outside of possibly watching YouTube clips, so you shouldn't make definitive statements about whether he should start because that would be really ignorant. Do you disagree with that assessment?

[Indeed]

I am not sure if "overrate" is the right word, but I do think that Kanter's given the benefit of the doubt more often than not (and there are many doubts) especially when it comes to rebounding and defense. I've even heard some say that he's definitely going to be a great rebounder in the NBA.

I think we are overrating his offense than his defensive game.
I think his rebounding and defense are fine, and those are the aspect of things he can transfer and improve in the NBA. However, his offense is a big question mark. He is not athletic, he doesn't have the quickness, and his size and strength advantage don't exist in the NBA.

I seriously doubt he can go one-on-one and score against other NBA starting center (create for himself). He seems like he can be a good man defender (not a lot of great offensive center anyways), and his positioning seems to be good (just not quick enough for help defense).

[Basketball_Jones]

When do these guys start working out with teams again? This speculation of how good these euro bigs are based on youtube clips and "mixtapes"...ugh...is getting old.

[Tenacious_C]

Why does every one of your posts seem to be fueled by your undying love for Bargnani?
Bargnani developed poorly because he wasn't good enough, it has very little to do with the organization. Good players become good players.

This has nothing to do with AB and it is absolutely up to the organization to draft and develop talent.

The fact is that EK will be the BPA at 3 simply because others dropped out. The fact is that this was considered a weak draft last year and the fact is EK is not a starter in the NBA.

The Fact is that he isn't as good as some posters want him to be.

[Rhettmatic]

Why does every one of your posts seem to be fueled by your undying love for Bargnani?
Bargnani developed poorly because he wasn't good enough, it has very little to do with the organization. Good players become good players.

This has nothing to do with AB and it is absolutely up to the organization to draft and develop talent.

The fact is that EK will be the BPA at 3 simply because others dropped out. The fact is that this was considered a weak draft last year and the fact is EK is not a starter in the NBA.

The Fact is that he isn't as good as some posters want him to be.

Actually, the fact is you have no idea how good he is, and neither does anyone else.

[bboyskinnylegs]

What kind of value do you think we'll get from trading the pick?

This draft sucks, yes, but trading the pick doesn't guarantee better value.

I think it's something that can be explored. I like the C that are available next year and think that we could trade our pick this year to a bubble team and get their first round next year.

I'm sure that there are teams that would be willing to take a chance on this guy may develop into something special.

In case you'd hadn't noticed, this organization is atrocious at developing big men.

What?

What centers are available next year?

As far as I can tell, next years center crop is basically non-existent.

Yeah next year is flat out terrible for C's, this year's is much, much better in comparison. Even just looking at the mocks, the best C's are Tyler Zeller, Patric Young, Ezeli, and Oriachi (and I guess Fab Melo if he declares ). The best incoming freshman Cs are Khem Birch, Rakeem Christmas, Norvel Pelle, and Marshall Plumlee.

[5DOM]

I am not sure if "overrate" is the right word, but I do think that Kanter's given the benefit of the doubt more often than not (and there are many doubts) especially when it comes to rebounding and defense. I've even heard some say that he's definitely going to be a great rebounder in the NBA.

I think we are overrating his offense than his defensive game.
I think his rebounding and defense are fine, and those are the aspect of things he can transfer and improve in the NBA. However, his offense is a big question mark. He is not athletic, he doesn't have the quickness, and his size and strength advantage don't exist in the NBA.

I seriously doubt he can go one-on-one and score against other NBA starting center (create for himself). He seems like he can be a good man defender (not a lot of great offensive center anyways), and his positioning seems to be good (just not quick enough for help defense).

Not sure if we are overrating or underrating any aspect of his game tbh. He's the hardest player in this draft to rate because there's like nothing available to us. Huge gamble at this point and workouts will help

[Tenacious_C]

I specifically said I have no idea how good Enes Kanter is, which I think falls considerably short of declaring him the GOAT or saving grace (I haven't actually seen anyone argue either of those things, though that's quite the subtle strawman you've constructed).

I said that you haven't seen him play, outside of possibly watching YouTube clips, so you shouldn't make definitive statements about whether he should start because that would be really ignorant. Do you disagree with that assessment?

Actually, you said We have no Idea how good Enes Kanter is and based on the love for him on this board; plenty of posters seem to think they do.

I'm arguing that he isn't that good.

Is that cool or should I just back off?

[Indeed]

What kind of value do you think we'll get from trading the pick?

This draft sucks, yes, but trading the pick doesn't guarantee better value.

I think it's something that can be explored. I like the C that are available next year and think that we could trade our pick this year to a bubble team and get their first round next year.

I'm sure that there are teams that would be willing to take a chance on this guy may develop into something special.

In case you'd hadn't noticed, this organization is atrocious at developing big men.

Really? I think we've just drafted some bad big men. Others have done well.

Chris Bosh developed nicely. Ed Davis is doing well. Charlie Villaneuva had as much success here as he did anywhere else.

How many big men did we do a poor job developing only to see them flourish elsewhere?

Its always a risk when drafting big men. We can only weight them on potential.
I don't even think CV is a successful case here. And even Bargnani plays better offense and defense than CV.

[Truthrising]

We have no idea at all how good Enes Kanter is. None of us have seen him play outside of YouTube highlights. We have no idea whether he deserves to start, or to play regular minutes, or not to play at all.

We also don't know who will be on the team once they eventually play, so this comment seems completely baseless to me.

That's the nature of drafting. Based on what you now about him, do you draft him 3rd overall? Considering the options, yes.

If those other players didn't drop out? No

Just because he is a third overall in this draft class doesn't make him GOAT and the saving grace at C for this team.

We're not saying he's greatest of all time, we have no idea how he'll be and you certainly have no idea how he'll be as well. Stop making rash decision and why don't you just wait until how the workouts will turnout or even see how he'll do during the season before writing him off. You can't just write him off without even knowing, this is all based on your assumption which is baseless as Rhett pointed out. Jeez....

[Tenacious_C]

What?

What centers are available next year?

As far as I can tell, next years center crop is basically non-existent.

http://sites.google.com/site/2010nbadra ... mock-draft

[Truthrising]

What?

What centers are available next year?

As far as I can tell, next years center crop is basically non-existent.

http://sites.google.com/site/2010nbadra ... mock-draft

So you'd rather go for Joshua Smith?

[Tenacious_C]

^^ He's an option.

[Dr Positivity]

Next year's Cs blow. Patrick Young probably goes highest, he has nice defensive potential but no offensive game, so he's basically Biyombo. Nogueira is too skinny and Smith is a fat undersized guy

[Tenacious_C]

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Patric-Young-5746/

Is who I like.

[CanadaB-Ball]

I think it's something that can be explored. I like the C that are available next year and think that we could trade our pick this year to a bubble team and get their first round next year.

I'm sure that there are teams that would be willing to take a chance on this guy may develop into something special.

In case you'd hadn't noticed, this organization is atrocious at developing big men.

What?

What centers are available next year?

As far as I can tell, next years center crop is basically non-existent.

Yeah next year is flat out terrible for C's, this year's is much, much better in comparison.

Yeah, this year seems to be much better for point guards and centers, where as next year seems to be stacked with small forwards.

Of course, it's still a year away, and a lot can happen, but early indications are that there is a lot of talent next year at the small forward position.

[CanadaB-Ball]

Next year's Cs blow. Patrick Young probably goes highest, he has nice defensive potential but no offensive game, so he's basically Biyombo. Nogueira is too skinny and Smith is a fat undersized guy

Agreed.

Worst part is, Nogueira declared for this draft, making next years crop even worse.

[Tenacious_C]

Next year's Cs blow. Patrick Young probably goes highest, he has nice defensive potential but no offensive game, so he's basically Biyombo. Nogueira is too skinny and Smith is a fat undersized guy

Isn't that what we are looking for? A defensive C?

Either way, all I am saying is that EK is going to be a project at C. Whether it's 2 years or 5 years is anyones guess. All i am asking is that if he doesn't work out, can all posters remember that it was unrealistic to expect him too make an immediate impact considering the weak draft class that he came from.

That's all.

[Dr Positivity]

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Patric-Young-5746/

Is who I like.

Keep in mind he played this year and averaged 3 points and 4 rebounds in 17mpg at Florida. He's mostly a body at this point like Daniel Orton after his freshman year.