Were Bynum's previous semi-injuries a blessing in disguise?

[minnytola1960]

Referring to the 2009 and 2010 playoffs. I can't help but think Pau's atrocious play might have something to do with Bynum's emergence. Add to the fact that they always seemed to be in each others grill along with the "trust issues" comment from Bynum. The last two playoffs, Bynum's ability was significantly diminished by his injuries and Pau was the clear option down low. Everyone on the team, including Bynum, knew this. Pau was playing at the highest level of his career. Now with Bynum fully healthy and playing well, Pau's play goes down the toliet.

I seem to remember there being reports back in 2008 of the Laker brass concerned that Bynum and Pau weren't meshing well. It also seems like Pau just plays better when Bynum is out, like earlier this season and when Bynum got injured against MEM in 2009. If this really is the case, I think that would push Buss even further to make a move this summer.

[kblo247]

Lamar Odom is the perfect PF for the triangle, not Pau, which is why the three finals trips saw him occupying the most minutes at the spot and being the buffer between Pau and Andrew.

Pau has spent most of his time playing at C in LA. His postseason success has come at center. His rings have come with him at C and Andrew playing 20mins.

The thing is Bynum was healthy for the first time, he was a post option for the first time, and he logged real heavy minutes for the first time. He produced as well with that time, but it took away the same comfort zone which got Pau that extension, his rings, and mainstream NBA recognition.

I said it before and I'll say it again, a healthy Pau and Andrew is great but they will never click enough to log 40 minutes together with both being effective on both ends of the court. They just haven't shown it. Pau has had great stretches during the season by himself in the paint and in the postseason with Lamar. Andrew has had great streaks alongside Lamar, and he had one before his second knee injury but Pau wasn't playing well then in those same games.

The fact that Odom is the one who closes games with one or the other points to yet another reason in which I say 1 has to be shipped out this summer.

They are 2 big dogs, different breeds of course with Andrew being a pit and Pau being a poodle, who are fighting for the same bone, the paint and C role

[Mass Rig]

I think you are right. Defensive rotations have proven to be too slow with both Gasol and Bynum on the floor. In hindsight, Bynum should have come out of the bench for Gasol, with the second unit.

I hope they will start rebuilding on a Howard-Odom-Bryant-Brown-new PG core (that PG should have been Farmar).

[dockingsched]

pau sucked in the playoffs no matter who he was playing next to, LO or Bynum.

[Mass Rig]

pau sucked in the playoffs no matter who he was playing next to, LO or Bynum.

Yes, this year. But he brought us to the finals three years in a row before that.

[Kilroy]

I think Bynum/Pau can work, but they need to accept modified roles...

Look at past Twin Towers as examples... Duncan/Admiral, Hakeem/Sampson...

Most of the time, one is the offensive threat and the other is the defensive/rebounding threat. The Later generally muscles his way to within a few feet of the basket, while the former Usually faces up 3 to 6 feet out.

And especially in those two examples, the Younger Guy is the scorer, while the older guy is the bruiser/Teacher...

When we were on our tear at the end of the season, it appeared both Bynum and Pau had accepted those roles... Bynum became a defensive and rebounding monster and the offense came to him in rhythm... Pau was the scorer and interior facilitator...

Somehow that all fell apart in the playoffs... Neither one of them were fighting very hard for position close to the basket and neither was rebounding with authority...

So I think the stretch after the allstar break shows it CAN work if they both accept their role... WILL it ever really work when it counts? I don't know... But I expect the coaching and FO staff does and will make changes accordingly.

[Mass Rig]

Look at past Twin Towers as examples... Duncan/Admiral, Hakeem/Sampson...

The game has changed. It was slower and used to be played down low. Now it's freakingly athletic, and much less technical offensively. It's about spacing, playing fast pick and rolls, and kicking the ball around to find the open men taking advantage of the defensive rotations initiated by the pick and roll. Defensively, it's really about moving your feet - and Gasol and Bynum are both slow off the ball.

Looking back, it's kind of unbelievable that we chose Artest and Blake over Ariza and Farmar, for the same money.

[Kilroy]

Look at past Twin Towers as examples... Duncan/Admiral, Hakeem/Sampson...

The game has changed. It was slower and used to be played down low. Now it's freakingly athletic, and much less technical offensively. It's about spacing, playing fast pick and rolls, and kicking the ball around to find the open men taking advantage of the defensive rotations initiated by the pick and roll. Defensively, it's really about moving your feet - and Gasol and Bynum are both slow off the ball.

Looking back, it's kind of unbelievable that we chose Artest and Blake over Ariza and Farmar, for the same money.

I don't think we had a whole lot of choice in the ariza or farmar deals... Ariza wanted starter money and Farmar just plain wanted off the team. Artest was a good choice all in all. Blake clearly was not.

But I agree with the changed game concept... The perimeter has become much more important... Phil even said as much.

That said, I think a team with a big and talented inside game still has the edge over a strong perimeter focused team if they have the right pieces, because it's easier to shut down outside scoring than it is to shut down interior scoring. And if you have a solid big inside, you can shut down the penetration needed to make a perimeter game dynamic.

Bynum and Gasol were both slow but i think that had more to do with communication breakdowns that it did actual physical slowness... Pau was kind of in his own world out there and so they were both slow to react.

But I actually think a lot of our bigs perceived slowness was actually the fault of our slow, uninspired perimeter play.

[Slava]

Both Gasol and LO looked pretty bad, makes me wonder how much of it is down to playing 44 mins a game to start the season. These guys had long summers before this and LO barely got any rest to get his legs underneath him so far.

It might not have shown when the pace is at cruise mode but once the game got quicker and intense both guys got exposed pretty badly.

As soon as we knew Bynum would miss a chunk of games we should have signed a back up PF/C that was not going to go extinct pretty soon.

[Atmanne]

Pau has played fine next to a healthy Bynum in years past.

[Mass Rig]

I don't think we had a whole lot of choice in the ariza or farmar deals... Ariza wanted starter money and Farmar just plain wanted off the team. Artest was a good choice all in all. Blake clearly was not.

That said, I think a team with a big and talented inside game still has the edge over a strong perimeter focused team if they have the right pieces, because it's easier to shut down outside scoring than it is to shut down interior scoring. And if you have a solid big inside, you can shut down the penetration needed to make a perimeter game dynamic.

I agree, being bigger is obviously still a big advantage...but back then you could tolerate bigger for slower, nowadays as crazy as it may sound you need both size and speed.

Gasol unfortunately has always been a poor off the ball defender. He's just slow (but I think it's really a lack of effort more than everything else).

On Ariza...he was asking starter money because he deserved it. How is it possible not to spend your full MLE on an emerging 23 years old that would cover the SF position for the next 5 or more years? Was the perfect fit for this team and really provided everything we needed. Such a shame. Now it's going to be hard to find somebody to put at the 3 (but I think we'll see more Kobe at SF in the future).

[Mass Rig]

Pau has played fine next to a healthy Bynum in years past.

"Fine" is enough for the regular season, it becomes "mediocre" when you face the best teams in the playoffs.

I was truly embarrassed when Paul made fun of our D.

[Jajwanda]

The Lakers were a plus 20 or so with Fisher-Bryant-Artest-Odom-Bynum out on the floor together. Imagine how good they would be with a good defensive PG out there that can actually dribble penetrate. That tells you how valuable this mythical Gasol-Bynum front court is. It's not. It's slow and it prevents post-ups from Kobe and Artest and makes the offense bland, leading to a long jump shot, leading to a fast break. That's why the Wizards deal is a good deal.

The Lakers have never been impressive with the Gasol-Bynum lineup because of that lineup specifically. They've been good because of the talent level it brings, not its cohesion.

[Kilroy]

I think it's unfair to say the Bynum Gasol combo 'never worked'...

There have been moments of absolute brilliance between those two... Unfortunately, there have been long stretches of stagnant offense in between...

It all comes down to everyone accepting their role on the team, and the Coaching staff knowing when to use a certain lineup and when to abandon it...

In those times it worked, I thought it was the best front court I've seen... So I'd like to see it work again.

But like it says in the Gambler '...You gotta know when to fold 'em.' I'm just glad Buss is the gambler not me...

[Jajwanda]

Best front court I've ever seen only when Kobe's not in there (sorry had to say it).

[Dr Pepper]

Look at past Twin Towers as examples... Duncan/Admiral, Hakeem/Sampson...

The game has changed. It was slower and used to be played down low. Now it's freakingly athletic, and much less technical offensively. It's about spacing, playing fast pick and rolls, and kicking the ball around to find the open men taking advantage of the defensive rotations initiated by the pick and roll. Defensively, it's really about moving your feet - and Gasol and Bynum are both slow off the ball.

Looking back, it's kind of unbelievable that we chose Artest and Blake over Ariza and Farmar, for the same money.

Imo the main problem is with this team's perimeter athleticism both defensively and offensively. Ariza and Farmar are much better at closing to the 3 point line and they're much better at doing things like cuts like what Barnes used to do before his injury.

The Grizz are showing that you can have success with relatively non-athletic bigs in Randolph and Marc Gasol. That team thrives on their post presence which frees up all sorts of opportunities for athletes like Tony Allen, Young, etc.

[microfib4thewin]

Gasol and Bynum has never played well together. It's either Gasol or Bynum having a good game, very rarely do you have both guys having a great game on the same night. Another problem that compounds our offensive redundancy is that neither player are that great defensively. Gasol's off the ball defense has always been weak, and Bynum's defense comes and goes. With no reliable defensive anchor it makes things difficult for the team when their offense struggles.

That said, Gasol playing piss poor is on him, this postseason is probably the worst stretch of games I've seen him play in a Laker uniform. It's no excuse to crap out like this even though Bynum is playing better.

[ALL HAIL]

If the OP is asking if Bynum's injuries allowed us to win two titles, then the answer is, strangely, yes.

If Bynum was at full health for both titles, we probably only win one. The chemistry issues between Gasol and Bynum are just that apparent.