Draft Thread Continued. 2011 part two...

[Hoopalotta]

^ For the Nick Collison talk, he was 255 at the combine, but that was with 17% body fat, so his actual playing weight throughout his career is probably more like 245 or thereabouts. Meanwhile, Kanter's probably going to push 265 or so once he gets his bearings.

Does anyone know historically which draft board has been the most accurate in predicting the order of player selections?

I don't even think all the supposed "mocks" are trying to predict the draft as much as lay out their own opinions on their view of the talent hierarchy. But Chad Ford definitely tries to predict the selection order based on his talks with GMs (who are usually lying to him), so maybe he'd be the ticket. However, for this draft in particular, I doubt anyone is really going to be able to lay it out particularly well.

If I'm choosing one or the other, I like the idea of a site trying to scout over trying to prognosticate the pick order.

[wizards-fan]

No, you're right. I am biased at the moment, and I am grouping a number of similar foreign players together (Kanter, Valanciunas, Vesely, Motiejunas, etc). I am just more and more skeptical that these foreign players have greater potential to be better than comparable American big men. It used to be there was a certain bias towards these players because they had better fundamentals (shooting, passing) to go along with the athleticism, along with the fact that they grow up playing professionally against grown men vs in the NCAA. It turns out they are just another source of players, not a better or worse one, so you need the same level of skepticism as you would use towards a raw American player (Perry Jones from Baylor or similar players).

Ever since Nowitski, everyone is looking for the next Nowitski -- without really acknowledging that Nowitski is probably as much of a once-in-a-generation player as Shaquille O'Neal is to American centers.

Yes, Kanter has more bulk and is more of a center than Collison. But his feet are slower, he is less agile -- you can see him looking at his own feet when he is making moves. Collison had a good outside shot as well. I just don't see a huge upside there. Agree to disagree.

PASS on Enes Kanter. Why am I not sold? You watched the Hoops video -- now I submit to you the following video, titled "Nick Collison highlights from his final two years at Kansas":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qB5NJAFT ... re=related

I would take that guy (6-10, 250) in a heartbeat over Enes Kanter (6-10, 250). Collison's career averages in seven seasons in the NBA: 7.4 PPG, 6.3 RPG, 0.6 BPG. To sum it up, Kanter = low ceiling.

The last skinny Euro I really liked was Andris Biedrins. He's now a pretty nice role-player for Golden State who plays about 24 minutes a game. I don't think any of the Euros will be better than him. Give me Bismack "Boom or Bust" Biyombo.

I admit, I see some similarities in their skill sets. Am I reading correctly however that you are classifying Kanter as a, "skinny European?". Kanter has cut his weight from 270 to 258, and stated that he wants to build it back up to 270, "the right way". Kanter has great bulk, whether or not you think he has a low ceiling. I personally do not.

I do like Bismack Biyombo however.

[LyricalRico]

Not to mention that Collison isn't 6'10, probably more like 6'8 and change. Kanter OTOH has legit NBA big man size.

(I can't believe I'm actually DEFENDING Kanter, but I think I might be sold...)

[closg00]

The Chicago combine list, none of the Euros will be attending. This is a glorified shoot-around with no contact, not helpful for evaluating the bigs beyond shooting ability.
http://www.nbadraft.net/2011-nba-draft-combine-list

[fishercob]

PASS on Enes Kanter. Why am I not sold? You watched the Hoops video -- now I submit to you the following video, titled "Nick Collison highlights from his final two years at Kansas":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qB5NJAFT ... re=related

I would take that guy (6-10, 250) in a heartbeat over Enes Kanter (6-10, 250). Collison's career averages in seven seasons in the NBA: 7.4 PPG, 6.3 RPG, 0.6 BPG. To sum it up, Kanter = low ceiling.

The last skinny Euro I really liked was Andris Biedrins. He's now a pretty nice role-player for Golden State who plays about 24 minutes a game. I don't think any of the Euros will be better than him. Give me Bismack "Boom or Bust" Biyombo.

This is a good post. While I'm not going to say "pass" on Kanter by any stretch right now, there are some similarities that could indicate that Enes will be a solid role player and nothing more. I do see a few differences though that would allow for some optimism.

Kanter is three and a half years younger than Collison when entering the draft, so COllison had more more time to develop. Also, I do think he's smaller than Enes. B-R lists COllison at 6'9 255; Enes may be a full two inches taller.

Kanter may end up an All-Star some day, but I'm certainly not going to guarantee it. I believe he has low bust potential -- that his floor is that of Collison, a role player on a great team. But your point is well taken; let's not get carried away on Kanter given that we have three highlight videos of the kid (Hoops Summit, Stoneridge Prep, Tim Grover Academy).

[GhostsOfGil]

Kanter looks likes a lil less skilled, slightly slower but stronger Pau Gasol...

Uhm... yeah...

marc gasol?

edit* came in a little late on this one

[Ruzious]

I actually like Collison, but you guys are talking about 2 very different players. Collison isn't an offensive player. He'll make open shots and set picks, but that's it. They may have some fairly similar physical things in common, but so what? You might as well compare Tom Gugliotta to Larry Bird. Physically, they had similarities - probably moreso than Collison and Kanter. Does that make it sensible to compare them? No.

[Ed Wood]

Yeah, I'm fine with drafting the Underkanter but solo workout footage rarely informs you about what a player is really capable of. Don't forget that the difference between a chair and Charlie Villanueva defensively is all that's stopping Yi from standing bestride the NBA like a colossus. You could get a good workout tape out of a whole bunch of prospects, and guys like Harper, either Morris brother or even marginal guys like John Leuer could probably look that good in an empty gym with a little editing.

[verbal8]

^ For the Nick Collison talk, he was 255 at the combine, but that was with 17% body fat, so his actual playing weight throughout his career is probably more like 245 or thereabouts. Meanwhile, Kanter's probably going to push 265 or so once he gets his bearings.

Does anyone know historically which draft board has been the most accurate in predicting the order of player selections?

I don't even think all the supposed "mocks" are trying to predict the draft as much as lay out their own opinions on their view of the talent hierarchy. But Chad Ford definitely tries to predict the selection order based on his talks with GMs (who are usually lying to him), so maybe he'd be the ticket. However, for this draft in particular, I doubt anyone is really going to be able to lay it out particularly well.

If I'm choosing one or the other, I like the idea of a site trying to scout over trying to prognosticate the pick order.

There may not be a lot of elite talent in this draft, but I bet the draft will be interesting. It is hard to predict where players will fall. And I think there will be a lot of trades if the CBA is resolved.

[Hoopalotta]

There may not be a lot of elite talent in this draft, but I bet the draft will be interesting. It is hard to predict where players will fall. And I think there will be a lot of trades if the CBA is resolved.

This definitely could be a draft where it's better to be good than lucky in that nice usage of the 6th pick (be it a trade back or an actual pick) could turn out to be more advantageous than lucking into the 1st pick. It wouldn't be shocking if someone mid or late lottery ended up at the best player in the draft.

The good news is I've narrowed it down to just about ten to fifteen guys.

[Ruzious]

One player who could shoot way up in the draft is Michigan's PG - Darius Morris. 6'4, 190, 15 PPG, 6.7 Assists / 2.9 to's, shot 49%. If he convinces teams that he can develop 3 point range, he could shoot up from 2nd rounder to mid 1st. Obviously not a fit for the Wiz.

[BruceO]

I am really waiting for the lotto and hope we get a good player. I think we can get a starter out of this. The draft following this has many small forwards so apart from dwill i don't think we should pick one. I don't even think there are any left at this point. But there are some small forwards like wilson chandler and jeff green ( tweener) who i'd like for this team.
So in my mind taking away players like kemba walker and brandon knight who some teams will want we are gunning for enes or Dwill with an outside chance at getting someone like alec burks, jonas, Donatas or buyombo.
I think if we fall out of the top two where players like kyrie and dwill are likely to go we should be aiming for enes. He will be a beast in the NBA. He will be at the level of cousins and marc gasol almost before end of first season. Some poster said that people are always looking for the next dirk nowitszki. graned that is a mistake that has been repeated several times the way people were seeking him out was looking for a skilled shooter. Donatas would be the next in that line of pseudo dirks. but enes on the other hand broke dirks record for nike hoops. He is still 19 with a developed post game and can shoot from the outside much like cousins can. He may be even more efficient and just as strong. Also if you go by everything thats been said about him you will hear he is going to be great. Infact only concern is his knees and we are seeing workout tapes of him running and dunking. Even video of him guarding being guarded by a chair would be great as long as he is not showing ill effects of knee injury.
If you also go by track record you will find that calipari has had top recruits who are great and are doing quite well in the NBA. I think that extends to Enes. Also the hate people have for euro's although understandable should not extend to Enes because look at the track record of turkish players in the NBA. Those seem to pan out quite well. Enes is rumoured to be the best prospect yet from that country.
My fear is that the draft sites are underating him while Gm's are correctly rating him and he won't become available if we pick outside of top two or three. So as much as i like him. I'll hold my breathe until we get our draft slot and then continue to hold my breathe until we get to pick depending on draft slot.
ideal draft would be enes and then somehow getting into position to draft burks. Either by trading up for that slot using our 18th and 34th pick or acquiring it. Beyond that faried, Singleton, Crawford and tristan thomspon i also like.

[BruceO]

John Wall on the Wizards’ needs
05/12/2011 - 2:46am

Some have suggested that the Wizards need everything besides John Wall, but the point guard himself wouldn’t go that far.

“It starts...in the power forward or the center position or the 3-man position,” Wall told Ivan Carter when discussing the team’s draft priorities. “I think if we just get stronger in that position, it’ll really help us.”

I mean, just that. Other than that, the roster is pretty much set.

“I’d like to see [Derrick Williams] or Enes Kanter play with us,” Wall also said. “I think those two guys are very good, they’re good big men that can really help us next year if we get a chance to pick ‘em.”

(...)

Saunders also said Wall appears to be an inch taller than he was when the Wizards drafted him, and that he might peak at close to 6-foot-6.

“That’s one of the reason he’s had...that soreness below his knee,” Saunders said. “Sometimes it’s caused by guys that are going through growth spurts. He’s gonna continue to get bigger and bigger.”


holy **** at the second bolded part. What if wall grows to 6 6?

[BruceO]

oh yeah apparently gys heard something about his growing i see from the john wall cousins and monroe thread. more enes links. Anyone know what D will is upto?

http://www.slamonline.com/online/nba/20 ... r-workout/

[jivelikenice]

Considering Young isn't even re-signed, I like the fact Wall didn't reference the SG position. Reading between the lines I take that to mean he thinks that him & Crawford can thrive in the same backcourt.

I don't think Wall is really calling out our bigs, but he's pointing out we need low post help and our bigs are more face up type players. I wasn't high on Kantner before, but Wall must be familiar w/ him and his talent level & skillset through the UK connection. Maybe he is the right fit for when we do get in the halfcourt set. Run, otherwise play pick & roll or post up Kantner? Could work.

[verbal8]

Saunders also said Wall appears to be an inch taller than he was when the Wizards drafted him, and that he might peak at close to 6-foot-6.

“That’s one of the reason he’s had...that soreness below his knee,” Saunders said. “Sometimes it’s caused by guys that are going through growth spurts. He’s gonna continue to get bigger and bigger.”


holy **** at the second bolded part. What if wall grows to 6 6?

I thought that he would need to develop an accurate 3 point shot to be an elite franchise player. If he grows to 6'6" he might be able to get by with a post-up game if his 3 point shot never develops.

[GhostsOfGil]

6' 6 wall?! thats incredible size for a pg.

also, kanter just finished his work out today back at the attack athletics camp.
via chadfords twitter:

Kanter looked great. Tough. Great shooter. Skilled. Showed some leaping ability. In great shape. Feeling good about our Top 3 projection.

Singleton was good. Great size. Great athlete. Quick. Leaper. Still needs work on the offensive end.

[Dark Faze]

Really excited about that endorsement from Wall because if we don't come away with Williams or Kanter then the draft will be a complete bust.

Hopefully Wall hits the weight room and works on his jumpshot this summer.

[dobrojim]

6-6 is good size for a PG but that's not the point...

6-6 with the kind of explosive speed and athleticism Wall
has...that's what I'm talking about.

[dobrojim]

DWill/Kanter - first pick

Singleton/Faried/Morris - second pick

Smith/Jenkins - third pick

wet dream