Down to two: Vogel and Brown

Moooose · Post #1 » by **Moooose** » Thu May 12, 2011 6:18 pm

http://indiana.sbnation.com/indiana-pacers/2011/5/12/2166725/report-pacers-coaching-vacancy-between-frank-vogel-and-mike-brown

Not surprising, i'd be happy with either. I just hope the players would have their say before we settle for someone.

Post #2 » by **Grang33r** » Thu May 12, 2011 7:04 pm

It's always a risk when trying to pick a successful coach, but if Vogel isn't the right guy, we would be set back a year at minimum. Although, i can't say anything negative about Vogel, i think he carries himself really well and is very inspirational, like a Bill Belichick. I just hope Bird and Morway pick the right one. I have always wanted Mike Brown, even before i really knew who Vogel was, besides some assistant under JOB, Brown was my top target, so i am high on him. That said, it's not guaranteed that he would be a great fit for us either.

chube · Post #3 » by **chube** » Thu May 12, 2011 7:53 pm

Mike Brown wouldn't be the worst result in the world by any stretch of the imagination. However, I want Vogel. From day one, the players would be on board and wouldn't have a learning curve in terms of learning a new system.

I wouldn't hate having Brown as coach, but his success in Cleveland...and this may just be me...was more a product of having a once-in-a-lifetime basketball talent on his roster in LeBron. There were a lot of times I felt that his offense was basically "give it to LeBron." Then, come playoff time, I feel he often got outcoached by the Doc Rivers and Stan Van Gundys of the league and his weaknesses and flaws were exposed in terms of game-planning. Granted, only 5 games is a small sample size for Vogel, but he went toe-to-toe and I feel often out-smarted Thibodeau's game-planning. We're talking about a guy who hadn't even coached 50 games in Vogel and had Coach of The Year Thibs' (and long-considered a top assistant in the NBA) league-best Bulls against the ropes in 4 out of 5 games. And if the Bulls didn't have such an unbelievable floor closer in Rose (and timely buckets by Korver) we're sniffing an upset.

Again, one series is a small sample size and who knows, maybe there is still a few remnants of the honeymoon phase during this past playoff run. But I really like how Vogel and his players stepped up their game in the post-season.

Wizop · Post #4 » by **Wizop** » Thu May 12, 2011 10:07 pm

losing Brown was the ruin of Carlisle. he lost his communications channel to the players. Vogel seems not to need someone else to do that.

glasket · Post #5 » by **glasket** » Thu May 12, 2011 11:22 pm

chube wrote:Mike Brown wouldn't be the worst result in the world by any stretch of the imagination. However, I want Vogel. From day one, the players would be on board and wouldn't have a learning curve in terms of learning a new system.

I wouldn't hate having Brown as coach, but his success in Cleveland...and this may just be me...was more a product of having a once-in-a-lifetime basketball talent on his roster in LeBron. There were a lot of times I felt that his offense was basically "give it to LeBron." Then, come playoff time, I feel he often got outcoached by the Doc Rivers and Stan Van Gundys of the league and his weaknesses and flaws were exposed in terms of game-planning. Granted, only 5 games is a small sample size for Vogel, but he went toe-to-toe and I feel often out-smarted Thibodeau's game-planning. We're talking about a guy who hadn't even coached 50 games in Vogel and had Coach of The Year Thibs' (and long-considered a top assistant in the NBA) league-best Bulls against the ropes in 4 out of 5 games. And if the Bulls didn't have such an unbelievable floor closer in Rose (and timely buckets by Korver) we're sniffing an upset.

Again, one series is a small sample size and who knows, maybe there is still a few remnants of the honeymoon phase during this past playoff run. But I really like how Vogel and his players stepped up their game in the post-season.

Agree with your post.
Either Vogel or Brown would be fine for me.
Perhaps the only reservation about brown is, as you say, he had Lebron on his team and the offense and gameplanning was along the lines of lts give it to lebron and get out of his way.

Post #6 » by **Gremz** » Fri May 13, 2011 2:34 am

I'm glad this is at an advanced state already. Better to have the coaching situation prepared before this off season. I'm really open to either at this point, but leaning Vogel's way.

Post #7 » by **Miller4ever** » Fri May 13, 2011 2:50 am

I would be happy with both, but Vogel holds more sentimental weight.

paulgeorge24 · Post #8 » by **paulgeorge24** » Fri May 13, 2011 3:51 am

Brown was great for us. Vogel has been good for us. People have been putting too much weight into what Brown did not do with Cleveland and Lebron. People have been putting too much weight into Vogel's coaching vs the Bulls.

I'm cool with either. I won't be ecstatic or disappointed either way.

Moooose · Post #9 » by **Moooose** » Fri May 13, 2011 12:06 pm

chube wrote:..From day one, the players would be on board and wouldn't have a learning curve in terms of learning a new system.

I wouldn't hate having Brown as coach, but his success in Cleveland...and this may just be me...was more a product of having a once-in-a-lifetime basketball talent on his roster in LeBron..

Beautifully said.
I like Mike Brown too but i don't really know how he coaches, all i know is he was once under good coaches Popovich and Carlisle, he must've learned some good things. But still.. i too think that the biggest part of his winning seasons in Cleveland was obviously LeBron.

On the other hand, Vogel helped Larry a lot in terms of player rotations and making sure every player knows his role. In return, the players responded well and worked effectively in his system.

Just like what Simon's reason for making Bird stay, we need continuity. So i'm leaning towards Vogel.

Boneman2 · Post #10 » by **Boneman2** » Fri May 13, 2011 3:48 pm

Not to rehash the past, but Mike Brown did more with LeBron and his Cavalier misfits, than Spoelestra and Riley are doing with Bron, Wade, & Bosh. Eventually though, the Heat are just too strong, and they will crush anyone in the playoffs.

Lebron used Mike Brown as a scapegoat, got him fired, then bolted.

I have wanted Brown for some time, but Vogel has really made a case for himself. What I like about Frank is that he believed in our roster when the rest of the league laughed at him. Frank has big enough balls to handle the job.

Either way I am good.

Kuq_e_Zi91 · Post #11 » by **Kuq_e_Zi91** » Fri May 13, 2011 9:16 pm

Nothing against Mike Brown, but I'm leaning towards Vogel. I'm also interested in Brian Shaw. It's not a given that he's the heir apparent to the Lakers' head coaching position.

DougInOz · Post #12 » by **DougInOz** » Sat May 14, 2011 12:22 am

Kuq_e_Zi91 wrote:Nothing against Mike Brown, but I'm leaning towards Vogel. I'm also interested in Brian Shaw. It's not a given that he's the heir apparent to the Lakers' head coaching position.

Especially since they are supposedly interested in the suddenly available fired Rick Adelman.

Kuq_e_Zi91 · Post #13 » by **Kuq_e_Zi91** » Sat May 14, 2011 1:45 am

DougInOz wrote:Especially since they are supposedly interested in the suddenly available fired Rick Adelman.

And Mike Dunleavy Sr.? I'm a little surprised at that one.

Post #14 » by **Grang33r** » Sat May 14, 2011 1:46 am

Kuq_e_Zi91 wrote:
DougInOz wrote:Especially since they are supposedly interested in the suddenly available fired Rick Adelman.

And Mike Dunleavy Sr.? I'm a little surprised at that one.

Yeah, that one is odd. I thought Jeff Van Gundy was odd too, but not as odd as Mike Dunleavy Sr.

CelticPacer · Post #15 » by **CelticPacer** » Sat May 14, 2011 4:07 am

Paul George ends some of his tweets with #Team Vogel.

If that's any indication of the loyalty these guys have to Vogel, by all means keep him.

Moooose · Post #16 » by **Moooose** » Sun May 15, 2011 7:01 pm

I saw this on Hoopshype:

Bill Ingram: The report that the Pacers have "narrowed" their coach search to Vogel and Brown is false . . .they are just starting to look at candidates. Twitter

Post #17 » by **Grang33r** » Sun May 15, 2011 7:04 pm

And i saw this on SI.com by Sam Amick -

Vogel leads Pacers race
In Indiana, the seat that is technically vacant is likely to be occupied by Frank Vogel next season as well. According to a source close to that process, the final decision has not been made but the odds are good that the interim coach is given a one-year deal.

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/w ... z1MRvbkUv9

Post #18 » by **Grang33r** » Mon May 16, 2011 5:23 pm

Indy Star on the coaching search -

The Pacers have yet to contact potential candidates Mike Brown, Dwane Casey or Chuck Person, according to sources, but all three are expected to receive word in the coming days.

Frank Vogel, who replaced Jim O'Brien in January, remains the leading candidate. But despite Vogel successfully leading the Pacers to the postseason, he is not considered a lock to receive the permanent position.

Read more: http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/21 ... z1MXMXqXqN

Looks as if Hoopsworld was right.

Wizop · Post #19 » by **Wizop** » Mon May 16, 2011 6:21 pm

wouldn't surprise me if they don't do a deal until there is a CBA. why pay people to sit at home?

Post #20 » by **Grang33r** » Tue May 17, 2011 5:23 am

Wizop wrote:wouldn't surprise me if they don't do a deal until there is a CBA. why pay people to sit at home?

Very doubtful. Coaches can still work and watch film while theres a lockout, they just can't interact with players or hold practices. But, i'm guessing Bird/Morway will want our coach to be working on tactics and watching truck loads of film while the league is in lockout. Also, i think they'd prefer us to have a head coach for the draft. He may not have a big say in who we pick, but i'm sure they will want to bounce back some ideas with their coach on draft night.

Anyways, Hoopsworld.com Steve Kyler has this-

Indiana Pacers: Interim head coach Frank Vogel is said to be the front runner to keep the Pacers' job, however there has been talk ownership wants president Larry Bird and General Manager David Morway to talk to a few additional candidates as due diligence before extending a contract to Vogel.

The Pacers are expected to talk with former Cavs' coach Mike Brown, Celtics' assistant Lawrence Frank, Mavericks' assistant Dwane Casey, and Lakers' assistant Chuck Person.

At the end of the day this might all be for naught as it seems the Pacers want Frank Vogel back, but whenever teams talk to additional candidates, especially as many as Indiana is going to talk to, it shows there is at least an inkling of doubt and that might be enough for an upset of the favorite – Frank Vogel.

http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?sto ... z1MaHCuaAc

Also, according to Kyler, Casey is the favorite for the Houston job. Guess we can cross him right off.