Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 8

[dagger]

Kawhi Leonard certainly is flavor of the week.

All the media falling in love with the idea that he has overcome his shooting weakness and is headed for a top 5 pick. Could we draft him? Not with a top 3 pick, but certainly if we drop a slot or two. He might be a more certain value than either of the point guards that are ranked in the same area.

http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=19773

[Kevin Willis]

In this draft the better fits at 3-5 spot would be Kanter, Vesely and Leonard in that order.

Kanter allows us to keep Bargs and unfortuntely lose Evans. Bargs will start at center because we're not going to have a rookie center but at times you can pair up Kanter with Bargs, Davis and Johnson depending on need and the team will be fine. Or have a front line of kanter, Bargs and Johnson/Davis at the SF. Magic would be a good team to do that with as Johnson/Davis can check Turk.

Vesely's length and athletecism would work well with this line-up and he can hit the occasional 3. He also has the tools to be a good weak-side shot blocker and is a good enough finisher to really run. He's small but he has the potential/tools/motor to fill a Josh Smith type role for this team - with weaker defense until he gets stronger. Him, JJ and Kleiza would make our SFs passable at least.

Leonard is Amir at SF with a better shot and better hops. He can board well which would help Bargs. He's athletic enough to run with the team. His defense is solid - he guarded Jimmer for San Diego State. His major weakness was his shot because NBA players would sag on him, if he can stick that it would allow him to be a triple threat and he can post up as well.

All 3 are less of a risk than Jonas, Donatas and BB. Plus it can fit our present team without redundancy of our current players skillset ie. Walker/Knight.

But Leonard at 3 is too high.

[gerrit4]

Kawhi Leonard certainly is flavor of the week.

All the media falling in love with the idea that he has overcome his shooting weakness and is headed for a top 5 pick. Could we draft him? Not with a top 3 pick, but certainly if we drop a slot or two. He might be a more certain value than either of the point guards that are ranked in the same area.

http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=19773

Wish I had watched more San Diego State games. I hadn't really heard much about him until this week. A versatile defender who can get in the paint could fit in nicely here if his shot really is as good as advertised.

[Indeed]

In this draft the better fits at 3-5 spot would be Kanter, Vesely and Leonard in that order.

Kanter allows us to keep Bargs and unfortuntely lose Evans. Bargs will start at center because we're not going to have a rookie center but at times you can pair up Kanter with Bargs, Davis and Johnson depending on need and the team will be fine. Or have a front line of kanter, Bargs and Johnson/Davis at the SF. Magic would be a good team to do that with as Johnson/Davis can check Turk.

Vesely's length and athletecism would work well with this line-up and he can hit the occasional 3. He also has the tools to be a good weak-side shot blocker and is a good enough finisher to really run. He's small but he has the potential/tools/motor to fill a Josh Smith type role for this team - with weaker defense until he gets stronger. Him, JJ and Kleiza would make our SFs passable at least.

Leonard is Amir at SF with a better shot and better hops. He can board well which would help Bargs. He's athletic enough to run with the team. His defense is solid - he guarded Jimmer for San Diego State. His major weakness was his shot because NBA players would sag on him, if he can stick that it would allow him to be a triple threat and he can post up as well.

All 3 are less of a risk than Jonas, Donatas and BB. Plus it can fit our present team without redundancy of our current players skillset ie. Walker/Knight.

But Leonard at 3 is too high.

I think Kanter is the best option between 3-5.
However, drafting him might not mean we are keeping Bargnani, but instead, we can expand our PF spot. We can trade Bargnani in mid season if it is better for him as a role player on a contending team; or we can keep him if he is playing well, and expand one of Amir or Davis to upgrade our PG or SF spot.

[luenell]

You hope for Mike conley outta irving.... ouch

have you been watching the playoffs? come on, son.

haha, was that supposed to be an insult? Cause I'll take that anyday

[wegetitin08]

Kyrie this year..Barnes next

[wanker]

While really just more of the same, here is a video of Kanter talking with Chad Ford:

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=6540086

[Consequence]

I liked the look at Kanter going up quick to the rim after moving across the lane from that ESPN video. Thanks for posting, wanker.

[nahom1319]

I like how we still haven't heard a peep about his defencive ability. He is begining to sound like Bargnani. I'm a powerforward, I am working on my face up game.

Face up shooting:
Bargnani > Kanter
Dribble Drive:
Bargnani > Kanter
Post Play:
Bargnani < Kanter
Rebounding:
Bargnani < Kanter
Defence:
Bargnani ? Kanter (Would be a sad if Bargnani is better, that remains to be seen)
IQ/Attitude:
Bargnani < Kanter (but this is hardly set in stone)

Overall I feel like we'd be getting Bargnani 1.5 in that there are only two things Kanter does significantly better Rebounding and Post offence. You might thow in IQ but that would be based on his camp hyping him up.

If he can show some level of understanding of how to defend in the post then I will be ready to anoint him, a top 3 pick. Till then he is just another Bargnani to me... hate it or love it that just my opinion.

***for all my questioning I should mention that he is leaps and bounds ahead of Bargnani in understanding how to maintain his body. Working out at Attack is a big step in the right direction.

[Dr Positivity]

Doesn't really concern us, but Tristan Thompson is up to 8 ahead of Val and Biyombo on Ford's big board and he hasn't even had the workouts yet to prove he's not an undersized PF (due to his apparant 7'2 wingspan).

I think Thompson ends up going top 6 and possibly as high as 3. The draft is usually kind to bigs of his type and he's an outstanding fit in Sacramento, Washington and Detroit

[dballislife]

whats date n time of draft?

[Truthrising]

Speaking of Biyombo, haven't heard a peep from him.. is he even doing any workouts?

[Reignman]

I like how we still haven't heard a peep about his defencive ability. He is begining to sound like Bargnani. I'm a powerforward, I am working on my face up game.

Face up shooting:
Bargnani > Kanter
Dribble Drive:
Bargnani > Kanter
Post Play:
Bargnani < Kanter
Rebounding:
Bargnani < Kanter
Defence:
Bargnani ? Kanter (Would be a sad if Bargnani is better, that remains to be seen)
IQ/Attitude:
Bargnani < Kanter (but this is hardly set in stone)

Overall I feel like we'd be getting Bargnani 1.5 in that there are only two things Kanter does significantly better Rebounding and Post offence. You might thow in IQ but that would be based on his camp hyping him up.

If he can show some level of understanding of how to defend in the post then I will be ready to anoint him, a top 3 pick. Till then he is just another Bargnani to me... hate it or love it that just my opinion.

***for all my questioning I should mention that he is leaps and bounds ahead of Bargnani in understanding how to maintain his body. Working out at Attack is a big step in the right direction.

The funny thing is you left out what he actually said. He said he can play power forward "too". When asked about the type of player he is he first said he likes to play in the post and then said he likes to rebound and he's tough. The last thing he talked about was his shooting.

And when it comes to that list you made there really is no comparison, sorry. You picked absolutely the worst player to compare him to. Bargs was a SF/PF at Bennetton and that's how his game looked 5 years ago and that's how his game still looks to this day. Kanter has always played C, his game is that of a C and all reports from scouts (not his camp) indicate he has the game of the C and the IQ needed to play the position.

And please don't compare Bargs' D to Kanters, Bargs is one of the worst defending bigs in the league. I don't think the scouts could be that wrong on this one and none of them have said Kanter will be a liability on defense.


The only thing I see Bargs potentially having on Kanter is dribble ability, that's it and again, that stems from the fact that Bargs is really a 7' wing player.

[Lionel Messi]

Fran needs a new job if he thinks Irving will be a Conley type of point.

Not going to lie, I can see it happening. I think he can be like Conley earlier in his career though, and improve to the point where he's an all-star.

[Reignman]

Fran needs a new job if he thinks Irving will be a Conley type of point.

Not going to lie, I can see it happening. I think he can be like Conley earlier in his career though, and improve to the point where he's an all-star.

I don't see it. I watched Conley at Ohio and their games aren't similar. Irving looks far more talented than Conley at the same stage.

[dagger]

Kanter says, "I want to be a power forward, too". In context, its hard to say whether he means "I want to be a power forward in addition to playing center," or "I want to play power forward, not center."

I know it's a physically demanding job, but doesn't anyone want to be a C in this league?

[Rhettmatic]

Kanter says, "I want to be a power forward, too". In context, its hard to say whether he means "I want to be a power forward in addition to playing center," or "I want to play power forward, not center."

I know it's a physically demanding job, but doesn't anyone want to be a C in this league?

I interpreted it as the former, especially because I've seen him say that in other interviews -- that he wants to be able to play the 4 in addition to the 5.

[Young_Buc]

Kanter says, "I want to be a power forward, too". In context, its hard to say whether he means "I want to be a power forward in addition to playing center," or "I want to play power forward, not center."

I know it's a physically demanding job, but doesn't anyone want to be a C in this league?

It made me a bit nervous to hear him say it, but I'll be damned if he doesn't look super fluid for a big man. I'm really starting to question if he could have gone number one if he attended UK.

If fat boy Sullinger was in the conversation....

[gerrit4]

I like how we still haven't heard a peep about his defencive ability. He is begining to sound like Bargnani. I'm a powerforward, I am working on my face up game.

Face up shooting:
Bargnani > Kanter
Dribble Drive:
Bargnani > Kanter
Post Play:
Bargnani < Kanter
Rebounding:
Bargnani < Kanter
Defence:
Bargnani ? Kanter (Would be a sad if Bargnani is better, that remains to be seen)
IQ/Attitude:
Bargnani < Kanter (but this is hardly set in stone)

Overall I feel like we'd be getting Bargnani 1.5 in that there are only two things Kanter does significantly better Rebounding and Post offence. You might thow in IQ but that would be based on his camp hyping him up.

If he can show some level of understanding of how to defend in the post then I will be ready to anoint him, a top 3 pick. Till then he is just another Bargnani to me... hate it or love it that just my opinion.

***for all my questioning I should mention that he is leaps and bounds ahead of Bargnani in understanding how to maintain his body. Working out at Attack is a big step in the right direction.

Having doubts about Kanter are very understandable. He has a lot of question marks that won't be answered before the draft.

That being said, using "<" & ">" as a scouting report is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard of. You could use that exact formula in comparing Bargnani to Zach Randolph, and they're miles apart. You could use that argument against Bill Russell to make them sound similar.

Free Throw shooting - Bargnani > Bill Russell
Defence - Bargnani < Bill Russell
Dribble Drive - Bargnani > Bill Russell
Mid-Range Shot - Bargnani > Bill Russell
Rebounding - Bargnani < Bill Russell

Bargnani 3, Bill Russell 2

and so on and so on and so on. Just comparing attributes in that fashion as it is somehow proof of a player's ability is absolutely ridiculous.

[Reignman]

Kanter says, "I want to be a power forward, too". In context, its hard to say whether he means "I want to be a power forward in addition to playing center," or "I want to play power forward, not center."

I know it's a physically demanding job, but doesn't anyone want to be a C in this league?

Yeah, back in the day it was cool for the big guys to go down low and just punish people. Nowadays it seems that facing up, shooting and driving is the cool thing to do.

Anyway, his speed, athleticism, size and overall game just seem like a better fit at C. I don't think he could keep up with or beat some of the new era PFs. Most of these guys are just really tall SFs anyways.