If we win #1 do we keep Irving? (And can he play with Wall?)

The Fax · Post #1 » by **The Fax** » Tue May 17, 2011 2:59 am

He's way too talented to simply trade away for more picks or veterans (didn't exactly workout last time we did that anyway...) . Do you think he could co-exist with Wall? I just don't think there's anyone else on his level in this draft.

Landing the #1 overall could put us in a bit of a dilemma :oops:

Jay81 · Post #2 » by **Jay81** » Tue May 17, 2011 3:02 am

I know what we are not keeping......

this thread

The Fax · Post #3 » by **The Fax** » Tue May 17, 2011 3:08 am

Well I sort of thought this was more of a discussion about the possibility of Irving and Wall co-existing as opposed to just general draft chatter, that's why i chose to make a new thread. If you'd like to voice your opinion go ahead, but please don't just make a useless comment that contributes nothing (no offense intended).

no D in Hibachi · Post #4 » by **no D in Hibachi** » Tue May 17, 2011 3:12 am

way to tempt fate, fax

Ed Wood · Post #5 » by **Ed Wood** » Tue May 17, 2011 3:16 am

No, keeping Irving (or Walker, or Knight) would be a poor use of talent on a team that is in desperate, screaming need of it at every position but the one they play. If the offers presented by other teams to trade up for Irving aren't attractive it would make more sense to draft either Williams or Kanter. If the team were to trade down and pick up an additional pick, probably with either Utah or Cleveland, then it might make sense to consider one of the three in addition to whomever the team lands with the additional pick.

If you're getting into the mid lottery and Knight or Walker is still around there might simply be too much value there to ignore, but I don't consider Iriving so far and away better than the alternatives at the top of the draft to do the same.

dlts20 · Post #6 » by **dlts20** » Tue May 17, 2011 3:23 am

No way. We dont need him. Keeping him is even worst then Wall & Gil together. Atleast Gil has some SG in him. Both Wall & Irving are straight PG's who want the ball all the time and neither are dead eye long range shooters. We dont need him. Either trade down or get a big time vet

Chocolate City Jordanaire · Post #7 » by **Chocolate City Jordanaire** » Tue May 17, 2011 4:06 am

The Fax wrote:He's way too talented to simply trade away for more picks or veterans (didn't exactly workout last time we did that anyway...) . Do you think he could co-exist with Wall? I just don't think there's anyone else on his level in this draft.

Landing the #1 overall could put us in a bit of a dilemma

Heck, just trade Wall for something unreal and call it a brand new team.

I had to say that because I like to think outside-of-the-box, The Fax. It always stirs stuff up, too.

To answer your question, I agree with Ed Wood. If the Wizards get #1, they trade Irving's rights if a good deal is out there, OR, they draft Williams or Kanter.

Don't read below if you are threatened with strange concepts/different ideas.

In theory, Wall is a higher-rated prospect who will ALWAYS be better than Irving due to John Wall's great athleticism. Almost everyone wouldn't even consider trading the player who would have been rookie of the year had it not been for redshirt rookie Blake Griffin. Me, I would give any idea due diligence. Business is business. Wall is a professional athlete who gets paid a salary and who the team drafted. They own his rights. I am detached enough to think of just what his worth is, and there IS probably a trade that would return more than that worth.

If Irving were a Chris Paul (don't think he will be) and Wall turns out to be a Rondo/Westbrook but better (do think John will be); you could roll with either player, but not both. Personally, I'd seriously want to see how good Irving really is pre-draft. If I thought I could draft Irving AND Derrick Williams, and trade away Lewis' contract; but part with Wall, I sure would consider it if I thought Irving would win more than Wall. Won't happen--just how I think.

Post #8 » by **pineappleheadindc** » Tue May 17, 2011 5:02 am

By even entertaining the idea that we'd have the #1 pick, The Fax has just done a reverse Ji on us and the Wizards now have zero chance to win the top pick.

Thanks a lot, dude.

Post #9 » by **Ruzious** » Tue May 17, 2011 9:31 am

If the Wiz got the 1st pick (a nice problem to have), it's more likely they pick Williams than Irving. And for those saying not to pick Kanter because he hasn't done enough; what has Irving done?

Post #10 » by **Zonkerbl** » Tue May 17, 2011 10:15 am

This is an EXCELLENT year to have the #7 pick!!!! I believe this to be strongly true. Yes.

Dark Faze · Post #11 » by **Dark Faze** » Tue May 17, 2011 1:57 pm

Could potentially move the pick for all of Clevelands first round picks this year if they are high enough on Irving.

NbdyBeatsTheWiz · Post #12 » by **NbdyBeatsTheWiz** » Tue May 17, 2011 2:15 pm

Dark Faze wrote:Could potentially move the pick for all of Clevelands first round picks this year if they are high enough on Irving.

If they were in the top 3 and we were still guaranteed a shot at Williams or Kanter I'd be ALL over that. If not, though, I think I'd pass.

Post #13 » by **nate33** » Tue May 17, 2011 3:08 pm

Dark Faze wrote:Could potentially move the pick for all of Clevelands first round picks this year if they are high enough on Irving.

Yeah. If we could trade our #1 plus our #18 for Clevelands #3 and #8, that would be sweet. Draft Kanter at #3 and Leonard at #8. That's a good draft.

Nivek · Post #14 » by **Nivek** » Tue May 17, 2011 3:27 pm

nate33 wrote:
Dark Faze wrote:Could potentially move the pick for all of Clevelands first round picks this year if they are high enough on Irving.

Yeah. If we could trade our #1 plus our #18 for Clevelands #3 and #8, that would be sweet. Draft Kanter at #3 and Leonard at #8. That's a good draft.

I put together a "draft pick value" sheet similar to the one the Cowboys did back when Jimmy Johnson ran things. I based mine on the 4-year Expected Value for each pick as calculated by Neil Paine at basketball-reference. I set the value of the #1 pick at 100 and scale everything else below. Sending out 1 & 18 for 3 & 8, the Wiz would be dealing away a "Draft Value" (someone give me a better name for this thing) score of 131 and getting back 125.

Cleveland's 2nd round pick is too valuable (18 DV points), unless they're paying a premium to move up to #1. Swapping 2nd round picks has negligible value for the Wizards (they'd net 2 DV points). Maybe swap 2nd round picks and the Wizards also have the right to swap 2nd round picks in a future year?

gesa2 · Post #15 » by **gesa2** » Tue May 17, 2011 3:49 pm

Nivek, is the draft value table on your blog? are you willing to share it? It sounds like a great basis for a column for you analyzing previous draft day trades.

Nivek · Post #16 » by **Nivek** » Tue May 17, 2011 3:54 pm

gesa2 wrote:Nivek, is the draft value table on your blog? are you willing to share it? It sounds like a great basis for a column for you analyzing previous draft day trades.

I'll try to get it up today on the blog. I'm trying to write something for the Post today, though. I do plan to use it to analyze trades after the draft.

20MexicanosIn1Van · Post #17 » by **20MexicanosIn1Van** » Tue May 17, 2011 4:56 pm

Best case scenario is if we get #1 and a team with two lottery picks gets #2 (Cleveland/Utah) and then the Wizards trade #1/#18 for #2/other lottery pick.