Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread, Part 8

[5DOM]

I've obviously watched Taj Gibson both in college and in the NBA, but proven or not Taj Gibson can't be the best case scenario for a potential top 5 player even in a weak draft like this one

Gibson (25y/o sophomore) is averaging 7/6/1 on 50TS% and 14.3PER.
I think those two dunks he had against Miami made you guys believe he's some amazing player.

Givony said Gibson would be the worst case scenario for Biyombo in which case he's clearly over-rating the guy.

But at the end of the day, I wouldn't mind if the Raps take a flier on this guy cause he's has the potential in being a Serge Ibaka type player

Not sure how he's overrating Biyombo by saying his worst case scenario is Taj Gibson. We are talking about a player who's 5-6 years younger than Gibson when he came out, has already produced in the ACB and has better measurements than Gibson. It's not like Gibson had/has much to offer offensively either.

[ty123]

If the mecahnics and work ethic are there, the jumpshot will be there. I care more about driving to the basket than jumpshooting.

[5DOM]

So what you are saying is that there shouldn't be a worst case scenario for anyone because none of these kids are proven.

No, what I'm saying is that calling Taj Gibson a worst case scenario for a guy who's high risk, high reward (which means his floor is an absolute bust, NOT Taj Gibson) is a joke. If that were true, Biyombo would be top-3, like I said, fairly easily in a draft that's apparently this weak. It's completely undervaluing what Gibson does for his team. Just use common sense. Knowing what you know; if you could get a prospect with the worst case scenario guaranteed to be Taj Gibson in this draft don't you take him right after Irving and Williams? Now look at where Biyombo is projected. It's that easy!

But that's usually not how this "worst case scenario" comparison works. If what you said was the case, Derrick Williams' worst case scenario would be a 12th man on an NBA team, not a "more athletic Jamison". These are reasonable guesses. Otherwise we would have MJ for best case and a bust for worst case for every single player

[Strategist1]

I like the idea of trading Bargs for Washington's 6th pick or Sacramento's 7th pick.
To make it work, of course, the Raps would have to take on a mediocre contract.

[Silk Wilkes]

Alec Burks also has a pretty high ceiling as well. Brandon Roy best case scenario.

he does, although I think #5 is too high for him personally, and there's better options with our pick. I wonder if we could run a lineup with Bayless/Burks/DeMar... or would that be too small?

I would implore you guys to watch footage of him on draftexpress. He has a good handle but man is he an awful jumper shooter. With Demar already on the team we need someone on the perimeter to stretch the defense.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Alec-Burks-5819/

I know we're talking about another level of players here, but look at Miami. Their two best shooters can't throw a pebble in an ocean, but when surrounded by shooters (who actually hit shots) it's pretty effective. The way I see it, we won't be paying 3 guys max dollars trying to fill out our roster with washed up scrubs so we're we'd be ahead of the curb!

[Mr.Raptorsingh]

Looking at the numbers, Kemba's assist rate in his first year (29.6%), 2nd year (30.7%), when he was more 'pass-first' and of course now in his 3rd year (19%) is less than Bayless' assist rate this whole year (36%).

I think people look way too much into statistics when they evaluate, and not enough at context, and that applies to Kemba Walker in particular. If you watched him play, and I know you did bboy, you'd see that he always started the game out at PG, looking to get others involved. It's when nobody was making shots (other than Lamb), that Calhoun moved him over to SG, and put Napier at PG. At that point, Kemba became a scorer. He was looking to get buckets for his team. That's what he was focusing on. The game that really brought out his PG skills, was against a weak opponent, in Bucknell, where his teammates picked up the slack, and he didn't have to do as much. He finished with 18 pts, 8 rebs, and 12 assists, while only taking 11 shots for the whole game. Bucknell pretty much dared Kemba to pass the ball by trapping him, and he hurt them with his playmaking because his teammates were making shots.

So, I think it's more about what was asked and required of Kemba by coach Calhoun more than anything. When you watch him, you could see that he can get into the painted area at will, and make defences collapse. You put that ability on our team, and it's only going to make things easier for DeMar, and Ed because opposing bigs are going to have to help on him - that's when those assists will come for Kemba. But, I agree - it's his ability to score the ball, that makes him lethal at the PG spot, because I'm guessing opposing PGs won't be able to stay in front of him, which is going to force defences to cross-match, and put bigger guys on him (like Kentucky did with Liggins), which should open post up opportunities for DeMar and James Johnson.

That's how I see things playing out with Kemba, particularly if he continues to refine his jumpshot. I think he'll be a force, man. It's up to him to get that jumpshot a bit better.

[T_Biggums]

If the mecahnics and work ethic are there, the jumpshot will be there. I care more about driving to the basket than jumpshooting.

Have you seen his mechanics they're brutalé! He has a pretty good handle though I'll give him that.

[TDotRep]

Outside of Dontas (or anyone that can't play D), I don't think I can be mad at anyone they take at 5. I'll just have to trust them & hope they did their homework.

Whoever they pick MUST be at minimum an average defensive player though.

Get out of my head lol.

[Silk Wilkes]

So what you are saying is that there shouldn't be a worst case scenario for anyone because none of these kids are proven.

No, what I'm saying is that calling Taj Gibson a worst case scenario for a guy who's high risk, high reward (which means his floor is an absolute bust, NOT Taj Gibson) is a joke. If that were true, Biyombo would be top-3, like I said, fairly easily in a draft that's apparently this weak. It's completely undervaluing what Gibson does for his team. Just use common sense. Knowing what you know; if you could get a prospect with the worst case scenario guaranteed to be Taj Gibson in this draft don't you take him right after Irving and Williams? Now look at where Biyombo is projected. It's that easy!

But that's usually not how this "worst case scenario" comparison works. If what you said was the case, Derrick Williams' worst case scenario would be a 12th man on an NBA team, not a "more athletic Jamison". These are reasonable guesses. Otherwise we would have MJ for best case and a bust for worst case for every single player

Throw best case scenario out the window because that's always unknown. However, worst case scenario is your guarantee that the player in question can be no worse than that worst case scenario. That's your absolute bottom of the barrel comparison for him. I really don't believe Taj Gibson fits that bill for Bismack Biyombo.

[T_Biggums]

he does, although I think #5 is too high for him personally, and there's better options with our pick. I wonder if we could run a lineup with Bayless/Burks/DeMar... or would that be too small?

I would implore you guys to watch footage of him on draftexpress. He has a good handle but man is he an awful jumper shooter. With Demar already on the team we need someone on the perimeter to stretch the defense.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Alec-Burks-5819/

I know we're talking about another level of players here, but look at Miami. Their two best shooters can't throw a pebble in an ocean, but when surrounded by shooters (who actually hit shots) it's pretty effective. The way I see it, we won't be paying 3 guys max dollars trying to fill out our roster with washed up scrubs so we're we'd be ahead of the curb!

That pretty much says it all hall of famers here.

[Silk Wilkes]

I would implore you guys to watch footage of him on draftexpress. He has a good handle but man is he an awful jumper shooter. With Demar already on the team we need someone on the perimeter to stretch the defense.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Alec-Burks-5819/

I know we're talking about another level of players here, but look at Miami. Their two best shooters can't throw a pebble in an ocean, but when surrounded by shooters (who actually hit shots) it's pretty effective. The way I see it, we won't be paying 3 guys max dollars trying to fill out our roster with washed up scrubs so we're we'd be ahead of the curb!

That pretty much says it all hall of famers here.

You read and bolded the first sentence yet completely failed to understand it.

[T_Biggums]

I know we're talking about another level of players here, but look at Miami. Their two best shooters can't throw a pebble in an ocean, but when surrounded by shooters (who actually hit shots) it's pretty effective. The way I see it, we won't be paying 3 guys max dollars trying to fill out our roster with washed up scrubs so we're we'd be ahead of the curb!

That pretty much says it all hall of famers here.

You read and bolded the first sentence yet completely failed to understand it.

dude... everything is thrown out the window when you're talking about HOF players. Why not try that with players who aren't otherworldly?

[Truthrising]

I've obviously watched Taj Gibson both in college and in the NBA, but proven or not Taj Gibson can't be the best case scenario for a potential top 5 player even in a weak draft like this one

Gibson (25y/o sophomore) is averaging 7/6/1 on 50TS% and 14.3PER.
I think those two dunks he had against Miami made you guys believe he's some amazing player.

Givony said Gibson would be the worst case scenario for Biyombo in which case he's clearly over-rating the guy.

But at the end of the day, I wouldn't mind if the Raps take a flier on this guy cause he's has the potential in being a Serge Ibaka type player

Not sure how he's overrating Biyombo by saying his worst case scenario is Taj Gibson. We are talking about a player who's 5-6 years younger than Gibson when he came out, has already produced in the ACB and has better measurements than Gibson. It's not like Gibson had/has much to offer offensively either.

To say that Biyombo's worst case scenario will turn out to be a Taj Gibson like player, is pretty much guaranteeing Biyombo that he will be on the all rookie team with an average of 9.0ppg/7.5 rpg.(Taj Gibson's first year) Taj Gibson is a servicable player and can you really guarantee those numbers from Biyombo? I don't mind Biyombo at all but Givony has to be realistic in expectations and the potential for Biyombo being a bust is more than you think.

[ty123]

Draftexpress makes pretty accurate assesments. If you read their Derozan Bargnani Reggie Evans assesments it's pretty accurate.

[Silk Wilkes]

That pretty much says it all hall of famers here.

You read and bolded the first sentence yet completely failed to understand it.

dude... everything is thrown out the window when you're talking about HOF players. Why not try that with players who aren't otherworldly?

Give me an example of another team in the same scenario. There isn't one, see how that works?

[Truthrising]

^ this is just another reason why I really take Givony's opinion with a grain of salt, he clearly doen't think that Biyombo is a high risk/high reward type player if he would rate Gibson as his worst case scenario

[witnessraps]

So will teams have a hard time scoring on us or what with a James Johnson/Ed Davis/Biyombo frontcourt? Bayless is not to shabby defensively and hopefuly DeMar improves in that aspect.

[Silk Wilkes]

So will teams have a hard time scoring on us or what with a James Johnson/Ed Davis/Biyombo frontcourt? Bayless is not to shabby defensively and hopefuly DeMar improves in that aspect.

That would go both ways.

[T_Biggums]

You read and bolded the first sentence yet completely failed to understand it.

dude... everything is thrown out the window when you're talking about HOF players. Why not try that with players who aren't otherworldly?

Give me an example of another team in the same scenario. There isn't one, see how that works?

Maybe because no other team in their right mind would have a backcourt that includes two starters that can't shoot. You see how that works! Only Hall of Famers make that scenario work get it!

[Mr.Raptorsingh]

So will teams have a hard time scoring on us or what with a James Johnson/Ed Davis/Biyombo frontcourt? Bayless is not to shabby defensively and hopefuly DeMar improves in that aspect.

Try scoring on those long *** arms between Davis and Biyombo. It all depends on Biyombo, and whether he pans out or not. Davis would need to develop an offensive game for that pairing to be worthy of starting.