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2011 DRAFT blather goes here. Part 3...

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Re: 2011 DRAFT blather goes here. Part 3... 

Post#361 » by Rafael122 » Thu May 19, 2011 1:45 pm

nate33 wrote:
gesa2 wrote:I still have reservations about Leonard at 6. Looks like his skills are those of a college 4 but with a little better passing, and he'll never make it size wise as anything but a 3. I'm wary about reports from workout camps saying a guy that couldn't shoot outside of 12 feet for 2 years is all of a sudden hitting 3's with good form. That's what they ALWAYS say this time of year. Seems like a good energy player, but not someone we couldn't find pretty easily on the free agent market. I'd try for Valuncias or Byombo.

I'm wary of that when we're talking about a guy with a fairly long track record of being a poor shooter. I remember Chad Ford pumping Iguodola's improved jumper in workouts. While I think it's certainly possible for a guy to put in the time in the offseason to actually improve his shot, what is often the case is that the improvement isn't permanent. As soon as the player backs off from the intense shooting drills, his shot disappears. What you often end up with is a guy like Marion or Iggy. They'll have a passable jumper, but it's only a reliable shot in maybe one or two years of their career.

I'm not sure this applies to Leonard though. Leonard is so young that he doesn't have much of a track record as a poor shooter. He was presumably exclusively a center or power forward in high school. He got into college and played a little bit more SF and shot 29% from 3 and 75% from the line. That's not all that bad for a freshmen with no perimeter experience.

Looking at his gamelog, I note that he shot just 23.8% from 3 in his first 22 games. He shot 40% from 3 in his last 12 games (albeit on just under 2 attempts per game). He is now reportedly shooting even better. So what we have isn't a poor shooter who is suddenly shooting well. We have a guy who has steadily improved his shot after starting out as a big man who wasn't asked to play on the perimeter at all.

Hmmm. Maybe I'm talking myself into Kawhi Leonard too.



Just to put things into perspective, it's easy to shoot jumpers when you're the only one in the gym. Just like with Kanter, it's easy to dunk and do hook shots when you're being guarded by a chair.
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Re: 2011 DRAFT blather goes here. Part 3... 

Post#362 » by nate33 » Thu May 19, 2011 1:47 pm

closg00 wrote:BB workout footage for those of you who love BB....he looks in his 20's to me.
http://www.marca.com/2011/05/19/balonce ... 06943.html

His outside shot is much better than I thought. It's a workout video so it should be taken with a grain of salt; but I had assumed he'd be purely a Ben Wallace/Michael Ruffin type of player on offense, with absolutely no ability to contribute except on offensive boards. Maybe he'll actually develop a decent midrange jumper. His form looks better than Booker's.

I can see why a lot of scouts are now thinking of him as a PF in the Serge Ibaka mold rather than a center in the Ben Wallace mold.
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Re: 2011 DRAFT blather goes here. Part 3... 

Post#363 » by Hoopalotta » Thu May 19, 2011 2:04 pm

DP.
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Re: 2011 DRAFT blather goes here. Part 3... 

Post#364 » by Hoopalotta » Thu May 19, 2011 2:05 pm

closg00 wrote:BB workout footage for those of you who love BB....he looks in his 20's to me.
http://www.marca.com/2011/05/19/balonce ... 06943.html


Yeah, if he's 22 or so as a raw upside pick that diminishes things a good deal. I can't really speak to the wrist fusing or what have you, but all opinions on him should be hinged on that.

I'll hop off that bandwagon right quick if it turns out that he fought in the Coltan War during '98.
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Re: 2011 DRAFT blather goes here. Part 3... 

Post#365 » by pineappleheadindc » Thu May 19, 2011 2:08 pm

The combine just started on ESPN2.
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Re: 2011 DRAFT blather goes here. Part 3... 

Post#366 » by GhostsOfGil » Thu May 19, 2011 2:16 pm

nate33 wrote:
closg00 wrote:BB workout footage for those of you who love BB....he looks in his 20's to me.
http://www.marca.com/2011/05/19/balonce ... 06943.html

His outside shot is much better than I thought. It's a workout video so it should be taken with a grain of salt; but I had assumed he'd be purely a Ben Wallace/Michael Ruffin type of player on offense, with absolutely no ability to contribute except on offensive boards. Maybe he'll actually develop a decent midrange jumper. His form looks better than Booker's.

I can see why a lot of scouts are now thinking of him as a PF in the Serge Ibaka mold rather than a center in the Ben Wallace mold.


hmm im starting to drink the cool-aid as well. his measurements are absolutely ridiculous. i read he has a standing reach of 7' 7?! is that for real? thats nearly an inch over mcgee.

from what ive seen, bb actually reminds me of mcgee. would bb cause a redundancy with mcgee? im not sure...
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Re: 2011 DRAFT blather goes here. Part 3... 

Post#367 » by nate33 » Thu May 19, 2011 2:38 pm

zaRdsAndZeRos wrote:hmm im starting to drink the cool-aid as well. his measurements are absolutely ridiculous. i read he has a standing reach of 7' 7?! is that for real? thats nearly an inch over mcgee.

from what ive seen, bb actually reminds me of mcgee. would bb cause a redundancy with mcgee? im not sure...

Wingspan of 7-7. His standing reach is sure to be lower than McGee's because McGee is 7-1 whereas Biyombo is about 6-9.

(McGee's wingspan is listed at 7-6 but he grew an inch so his wingspan probably did too.)
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Re: 2011 DRAFT blather goes here. Part 3... 

Post#368 » by LyricalRico » Thu May 19, 2011 2:41 pm

zaRdsAndZeRos wrote:from what ive seen, bb actually reminds me of mcgee. would bb cause a redundancy with mcgee? im not sure...


That's the question. Now that I think about it, Biyombo and Kanter might be a solid pair.

Hmmm...trade McGee and other assets for the #2 and take both of them? We'd be ultra young, but I'd be more excited about that frontcourt than our current one.

:o
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Re: 2011 DRAFT blather goes here. Part 3... 

Post#369 » by TGW » Thu May 19, 2011 2:48 pm

Admittedly, Biyombo looks wayyyyy more skilled than I gave him credit for. Obviously, they were showing all his swishes and not his bricks/airballs, but the follow through is there. The skill is there.

I'm starting to think our choices aren't as bad as I thought they were before.
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Re: 2011 DRAFT blather goes here. Part 3... 

Post#370 » by Dark Faze » Thu May 19, 2011 2:50 pm

If McGee doesn't meet his potential...or even come close to it then his value is going to drop significantly prior to his free agency.

I think eventually we are going to have to look to move him, but I just don't think this is the year to do it, given that he has 2 years left on his deal.

The only way I'd do it is if I could get the #2 without giving up the #6...that way I can at least have Williams and Bismack...but even in this draft I can't see giving up a center with Javales potential + the #6 for one player.
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Re: 2011 DRAFT blather goes here. Part 3... 

Post#371 » by nate33 » Thu May 19, 2011 2:51 pm

The Biyombo/McGee redundancy is an issue, but not that big of one. First of all, Biyombo would probably stay overseas for another year and hopefully polish his offensive game. McGee would get another year to polish his offensive game too. By 2012/13, hopefully they'll be competent enough offensively to play together for 10 minutes a game. That's enough to give McGee 34 minutes at C and Biyombo 24 minutes at PF/C.

The main problem is that it would eliminate Seraphin from the rotation. If we draft Biyombo, I'd look to move Seraphin by next summer.
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Re: 2011 DRAFT blather goes here. Part 3... 

Post#372 » by nate33 » Thu May 19, 2011 2:54 pm

Dark Faze wrote:If McGee doesn't meet his potential...or even come close to it then his value is going to drop significantly prior to his free agency.

I think eventually we are going to have to look to move him, but I just don't think this is the year to do it, given that he has 2 years left on his deal.

The only way I'd do it is if I could get the #2 without giving up the #6...that way I can at least have Williams and Bismack...but even in this draft I can't see giving up a center with Javales potential + the #6 for one player.

McGee only has one year left on his deal. He is a free agent next summer. If we intend to trade him, we need to do it this summer.

Given the uncertainty of the CBA, and the general desire of owners to make it easier to retain one's own players, I'd say it would be ill-advised to trade McGee now out of fear that we won't want to pay him next summer.
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Re: 2011 DRAFT blather goes here. Part 3... 

Post#373 » by GhostsOfGil » Thu May 19, 2011 3:05 pm

LyricalRico wrote:
zaRdsAndZeRos wrote:from what ive seen, bb actually reminds me of mcgee. would bb cause a redundancy with mcgee? im not sure...


That's the question. Now that I think about it, Biyombo and Kanter might be a solid pair.

Hmmm...trade McGee and other assets for the #2 and take both of them? We'd be ultra young, but I'd be more excited about that frontcourt than our current one.

:o


ideally id rather keep mcgee and trade blatche + 6 to move up to take kanter. if we trade mcgee and bb ends up playing over seas we have a gaping hole at the 5.
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Re: 2011 DRAFT blather goes here. Part 3... 

Post#374 » by popper » Thu May 19, 2011 3:09 pm

Take BB at 6 if he's still available. He reminds me so much of Olajuwon. Atheletes like him don't come around often. He looks like he can play both the 4 and the 5.
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Re: 2011 DRAFT blather goes here. Part 3... 

Post#375 » by Dark Faze » Thu May 19, 2011 3:11 pm

My mistake, yeah...this will be McGees contract year...which is scary given a possible lockout.
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Re: 2011 DRAFT blather goes here. Part 3... 

Post#376 » by TGW » Thu May 19, 2011 3:29 pm

popper wrote:Take BB at 6 if he's still available. He reminds me so much of Olajuwon. Atheletes like him don't come around often. He looks like he can play both the 4 and the 5.


Olajuwon? Really? Olajuwon is arguably the most skilled lowpost bigman in NBA history.

Biyombo is about as close to Olajuwon as McGee is to Wilt Chamberlain.
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Re: 2011 DRAFT blather goes here. Part 3... 

Post#377 » by thinker07 » Thu May 19, 2011 3:31 pm

nate33 wrote:McGee only has one year left on his deal. He is a free agent next summer. If we intend to trade him, we need to do it this summer.

Given the uncertainty of the CBA, and the general desire of owners to make it easier to retain one's own players, I'd say it would be ill-advised to trade McGee now out of fear that we won't want to pay him next summer.


Given the way that EG seems to operate, after the CBA/lockout is resolved, I wouldn't be surprised at all if EG tries to extend McGee before he hits free agency.
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Re: 2011 DRAFT blather goes here. Part 3... 

Post#378 » by NbdyBeatsTheWiz » Thu May 19, 2011 3:32 pm

Bismack reminds me more of a very poor man/short man's Dwight at this point. He'll take just as long to develop his post moves, and he's starting at (assumed) a later age.

I've been talkin him up as a better Ibaka with my bud, that's more likely IMO.

But still, at 6, I want him over all else.
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Re: 2011 DRAFT blather goes here. Part 3... 

Post#379 » by Ruzious » Thu May 19, 2011 3:41 pm

NbdyBeatsTheWiz wrote:Bismack reminds me more of a very poor man/short man's Dwight at this point. He'll take just as long to develop his post moves, and he's starting at (assumed) a later age.

I've been talkin him up as a better Ibaka with my bud, that's more likely IMO.

But still, at 6, I want him over all else.

Best comp to me for BB is a young McDyess with a little more bulk - when he was at Alabama.
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Re: 2011 DRAFT blather goes here. Part 3... 

Post#380 » by nate33 » Thu May 19, 2011 3:44 pm

Mock Draft Summaries:

Chad Ford:
1. Cleveland: Kyrie Irving
2. Minnesota: Derrick Williams
3. Utah: Brandon Knight
4. Cleveland: Enes Kanter
5. Toronto: Jonas Valanciunas
6. Washington: Kawhi Leonard
7. Sacramento: Kemba Walker
8. Detroit: Tristan Thompson
9. Charlotte: Bismack Biyombo
10. Milwaukee: Alec Burks

David Aldridge
1. Cleveland: Kyrie Irving
2. Minnesota: Derrick Williams
3. Utah: Jonas Valanciunas
4. Cleveland: Enes Kanter
5. Toronto: Jan Vesely
6. Washington: Markieff Morris
7. Sacramento: Brandon Knight
8. Detroit: Kawhi Leonard
9. Charlotte: Tristan Thompson
10. Milwaukee: Alec Burks

Sam Amick
1. Cleveland: Kyrie Irving
2. Minnesota: Derrick Williams
3. Utah: Brandon Knight
4. Cleveland: Enes Kanter
5. Toronto: Jonas Valanciunas
6. Washington: Jan Vesely
7. Sacramento: Donatas Motiejunas
8. Detroit: Bismack Biyombo
9. Charlotte: Kawhi Leonard
10. Milwaukee: Kemba Walker

Draft Express:
1. Cleveland: Kyrie Irving
2. Minnesota: Derrick Williams
3. Utah: Brandon Knight
4. Cleveland: Jonas Valanciunas
5. Toronto: Kemba Walker
6. Washington: Jan Vesely
7. Sacramento: Bismack Biyombo
8. Detroit: Enes Kanter
9. Charlotte: Donatas Motiejunas
10. Milwaukee: Marcus Morris

NBADraft.net
1. Cleveland: Kyrie Irving
2. Minnesota: Derrick Williams
3. Utah: Brandon Knight
4. Cleveland: Enes Kanter
5. Toronto: Jonas Valanciunas
6. Washington: Jan Vesely
7. Sacramento: Kemba Walker
8. Detroit: Kawhi Leonard
9. Charlotte: Tristan Thompson
10. Milwaukee: Alec Burks

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