2011 DRAFT blather goes here. Part 3...

[verbal8]

I'm basing it on the videos i see. You are right, that Kanter didn't play competitive basketball in long time, and that he was more developed than the kids his age. That helped him to dominate in almost every game he played till today.
The videos we see from him are showing, that he has real talent. He can shoot, he has good footwork, and he seems to have a high basketball iq.
That sounds a lot like Milicic pre-draft. But Milicic himself said, that he made the mistake, not really working hard, when he was in Detroit. Kanter basically had a year off, and worked his butt off, which shows, that he won't have the same attitude Milicic had at that time.

Val is a very nice player. I think his freethrow shooting is very good too.
Every young player, who is that tall will have foul problem, thats nothing he won't learn.
I just don't see Val developing an offensive game other than, well, dunking.
If he gets stronger, he has the chance to be a defensive force, but as i said, i think he will be a one way center.
While Vals ceiling is to be a better defender, he won't ever be a gamechanger on offense, which Kanter could be, i believe.

Kanter strikes me as being a center rather than a power forward, but that's about the strongest statement I'd make on him - it's not like I'm actually against our getting him, especially if he measures out big.

I agree he looks like an instinctive and smooth scorer in the post and should be a solid rebounder, it's just that I'm high on Valentine's ability to add to where he's at, as Ruz was mentioning. As to his being a one-way player, it's possible, but his PRN and even PNP potential seems really high with that pure shooting stroke and aggressiveness. More of a flow of the game thing as Kanter's obviously more the go-to option who can create his own opportunities.

Given he has greater upside than Kanter, I think Valanciunas probably goes to Cleveland with the 4th pick. If they stay put, I think the Jazz and Raptors go with the PGs.

That leaves the Wizards with Kanter and Biyombo as the best guys on the board.

[gesa2]

Some of you guys have done a lot more research than me. Is it ridiculous to say that Kanter's upside is Al Horford, while Valuncius' upside would be Noah?

[Ruzious]

WojYahooNBA Just left long day and night in hotel lobby at Pre-Draft camp, where GM says Jimmer Fredette was "most impressive interview I've ever done."

Interesting - he could be there at 18.

Kanter's interview was also supposed to be real good according to Givony.

Logistics scoop:

chadfordinsider Heading back over to @ATTACKATHLETICS for NBA Draft Combine. ESPNU & ESPN3 will televise the 2nd day of the Combine today at 10 am ET

Are the measurements going up today? Maybe.

Am I a major dork for asking? Yes.

I think Jimmer's going to be long gone. If he does as well as I think he will, he's going to be a major attraction for the NBA, because his skills are so unusual.

[KayAllTheWaay]

Kay, you're preaching to the choir on Kanter. I'd pick him #1 in the draft. But after watching highlights of his last 2 games, Val is really moving up on the developmental cycle faster and better than I thought. He's learning to use his phenominal length, and he's becoming a lot more aggressive and confident. You know... he has a very good touch, because before he filled out, he shot a tremendously high %, and he's a 90% foul shooter. It's just a matter of time before he expands his shooting range on FG's. With the extra size, aggression, and confidence, he can dunk on anyone now. He has Javale McGee type length. There are only a handful of players in the world that long, and now - we're seeing the body fill out to the frame. He's grounded in fundamentals and will continue to improve on them, because he's a disciplined hard worker. He's not a great smooth athlete, but neither was The Big Fundamental. Kanter is the better player, but Val has better potential, imo, and it's starting to show.

Well, if Val has a mid range shot and works on post moves, he should be nr.1 Pick
It's just that i don't believe in his offense. I hope his buyout won't be an issue as big as it could be, so that he can prove me wrong

He should be a realistic pick for you, because someone, picking before you, will make a mistake

[BruceO]

I'm with the offer the number six pick for the number 3. Along with either the 18th or seraphin, booker or even crawford If enes is that good. I'm watching this interview
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNNgJsDrA34 and he seems very mature and will be a great PF. IMO he can be as dominating as cousins or even better.
From the mocks and the little else i've read on the net it seems like Kyrie and Derrick Williams are going top two with a possible spoiler from indiana. Beyond that i think we may be fortunate in the draft order because Enes may be redundant to Utah but may be a serious consideration along with Jonas at the 4th slot for Cleveland. It seems from twitter than Brandon knight is being taken out to dinner by Toronto so I think he may be a target for Utah or Toronto. That's the folly with trading the 3rd for the 6th to Utah in that they may not get who they want and he may be stolen a slot ahead.
Otherwise if we make the trade:
1. Cleveland: Kyrie irving
2. Minnesota: Derrick Williams
3. Washington via trade: Enes Kanter
4. Cleveland: Jonas
5. Toronto: Brandon Knight or Jan Vesely
6. Utah: Kemba walker, Brandon Knight

I'd be much simpler if Toronto falls in love with someone other than Brandon Knight. But i'd give up Crawford because the PF position being solidified is much more important than his being here. I think also he can be replaced with someone like Stuckey who's available this off season. Someone needs to figure out also who Indiana could be possibly going after D will or Kanter and which trade would work involving those players previously mentioned.
Also according to twitter kanter wants to play for Minnesota, Washington or Cleveland.

[nate33]

RE: Kanter vs. Valanciunas

I'm agnostic. Valanciunas has a higher upside and lower floor. Kanter is the better fit for what we need right now but he might not pan out to be anything more than a decent starter. FWIW, all of the mocks I've seen have Valanciunas being gone before we pick. Most also have Kanter being gone, but if he has been lackluster in workouts, then maybe he's still around at #6.

We really need to get a spy deep into the Toronto organization and figure out what they want to do with the #5 pick. I think there's a real good chance that Utah drafts Knight, and it's almost a sure thing that Cleveland takes one of Kanter/Valanciunas. Toronto is the wildcard. If we're reasonably sure they want a PG (Walker), then we shouldn't make any trades because the likelihood is that Kanter or Valanciunas falls to us. If our spies believe Toronto wants one of the big Euros, then we need to seriously consider sacrificing some assets in order to trade up to #3.

[nate33]

Someone needs to figure out also who Indiana could be possibly going after D will or Kanter and which trade would work involving those players previously mentioned.

I don't see the Indy situation making much difference. If Indy moves to #2, they'll probably just take Williams themselves. The already have Hibbert and Collison at C and PG, so I don't see them wanting Knight or Valanciunas. There's a small chance that they go for Kanter, but if they do, it'll just mean that Cleveland ends up getting Williams at #4.

The only trade scenarios that concern me are ones in which somebody trades up to #3 or #5 and end up drafting a big man where Utah and Toronto might have taken a PG. We want as many teams in the top 5 as possible to draft PG's instead of bigs.

[GhostsOfGil]

heres audio recap from chad ford on yesterdays combine in case anyone is interested. talks about the wiz picking leonard around the 6 minute mark.. katner talk at 12 min mark

http://espn.kall700sports.com/wp-conten ... -19-11.mp3

[Rafael122]

Chad Ford tweeting measurements:

"Derrick Williams was 6' 7.25" in socks and 6' 8.75" in shoes. He had a 7' 1.25" wingspan and a 9' 0" standing reach."

Yeah, Williams is a small forward. You can talk about wing span and standing reach, he's a 6'88'' small forward.

Kanter:

Turkey's Enes Kanter measured out well. 6' 9.75" in socks and 6' 11.25" in shoes with a good 7' 1.5" wing and a 9' 1.5" standing reach

Leonard:

Kawhi Leonard had a huge 7' 3" wingspan and the biggest hands of anyone at the camp. But just 6' 7" in shoes.

[LyricalRico]

^ Also looks like Kanter is a PF with that standing reach IMO.

[nate33]

Chad Ford tweeting measurements:

"Derrick Williams was 6' 7.25" in socks and 6' 8.75" in shoes. He had a 7' 1.25" wingspan and a 9' 0" standing reach."

Yeah, Williams is a small forward. You can talk about wing span and standing reach, he's a 6'8'' small forward.

Some comparisons:

Code: Select all

Name            Year     Ht. NoSh   Wt.    Wngspn     Reach     
Michael Beasl   2008     6' 7       239    7' 0.25    8' 11     
Josh Smith      2004     6' 7       221    7' 0       8' 10.5   
Luol Deng       2004     6' 7       220    7' 0.5     9' 0.5     
Mike Sweetney   2003     6' 7.25    262    7' 1       8' 11.5   
Danny Granger   2005     6' 7.5     225    7' 1.5     8' 7       
Jeff Green      2007     6' 7.75    228    7' 1.25    8' 7       
Kevin Love      2008     6' 7.75    255    6' 11.25   8' 10     
Patrick Patte   2010     6' 8       240    7' 1.25    8' 11     
Tyler Hansbro   2009     6' 8.25    234    6' 11.5    8' 10     
Kris Humphrie   2004     6' 8.25    238    7' 0.5     8' 10.5   
Chris Wilcox    2002     6' 8.25    218    7' 1       8' 11.5   
Amare Stoudem   2002     6' 8.5     233    7' 1.75    9' 0.5     

[Hoopalotta]

Chad Ford Twitter...

Kemba Walker 5' 11.5" in socks. 6' 1" in shoes. 6' 3.5" wing Brandon Knight 6' 1.5" socks and 6' 3.25" in shoes. 6' 6.75" wing

Trey Thompkins had 15.5 percent body fat - the most among the prospects here.

Morehead States Kenneth Faried measured just 6' 6" in socks and 6' 7.5" in shoes. However he has a 7' wingspan and a 9' standing reach.

Kawhi Leonard had a huge 7' 3" wingspan and the biggest hands of anyone at the camp. But just 6' 7" in shoes.

Providence's Marshon Brooks had the biggest wingspan among guards with a crazy 7' 1" wingspan. He's longer than bothMorris twins.

Jeremy Tyler measured with the biggest wingspan -- a whopping 7' 5". He also had the largest standing reach at 9' 4.5"

[gesa2]

Kawhi Leonard 6'7" in shoes. So about 6' 51/2" in socks. Standing reach and wingspan matter too, but that's a little on the short side for a SF.

[no D in Hibachi]

I'm not sre why Chad Ford is so enamored with Leonards huge hands. With large hands there comes a point of deminishing returns and having abnormally large hands usually hinders just as much as it helps. The four players I can think of off the top of my head with abnormally large hands are Rando, Shaq, Tractor Trayler, & Dr. J. None of them can/could shoot worth a hill of beans. People are already questioning Leonard's shooting ability and with such large hands I don't see much improvement. Also, 6'7'' in shoes doesn't say to me "future lockdown SF". Caron Butler was 6'7" in shoes and he was a lousy defender.

[theboomking]

Kanter is Impressing no one in the workouts. I'm starting to sour on him

I hope Cleveland, Minny, Utah, and Toronto are saying the SAME thing.

NbdyBeatsTheWiz, can you post a link for that? ESPN's combine highlights singled out Kanter as looking good. I think you may just be basing that off of the workout of the guy from USC looking better to one scout on one day.

You also have to figure that workouts aren't the best place for a banger like Kanter to shine.

I'm more interested in Kanter's official measurements than his workouts.

[fishercob]

RE: Kanter vs. Valanciunas

I'm agnostic.

Any reasonable person here would be. We've hardly seen either guy play. I'm glad you continue to take your role as official voice of reason/ purveyor of common sense seriously.

You know if we end up with one of these guys there will be throngs of posters loving or hating the pick based on what they've read of opinions other people have formed. It's sort of akin to deciding to hate Jews after reading Mein Kampf -- when you haven't even seen their combine measurements, interviewed them, or seen them in live game action.

[nate33]

Chad Ford tweeting measurements:

Turkey's Enes Kanter measured out well. 6' 9.75" in socks and 6' 11.25" in shoes with a good 7' 1.5" wing and a 9' 1.5" standing reach

Some comparisons:

Code: Select all

Name             Year     Ht. NoSh   Wt.    Wngspn     Reach     
Kwame Brown      2001     6'10       243    7'1        9'0       
Greg Monroe      2010     6'9.75     247    7'2.25     9'0.5     
Joakim Noah      2007     6'10.5     223    7'1.25     8'10.5     
Troy Murphy      2001     6'9.75     230    6'11       8'9.5     
Ed Davis         2010     6'9        227    7'0        9'0       
Al Horford       2007     6'8.75     246    7'0.75     8'11       
Spencer Hawes    2007     6'10.5     244    7'0.5      9'2       
Kevin Seraphin   2010     6'9        264    7'3        9'1       

[REDardWIZskin]

KL won't be defending shots with his head. His length is what really matters. AND IMO, since he is just 6'5 says even more about his rebounding ability.

[NbdyBeatsTheWiz]

Kanter is Impressing no one in the workouts. I'm starting to sour on him

I hope Cleveland, Minny, Utah, and Toronto are saying the SAME thing.

NbdyBeatsTheWiz, can you post a link for that? ESPN's combine highlights singled out Kanter as looking good. I think you may just be basing that off of the workout of the guy from USC looking better to one scout on one day.

You also have to figure that workouts aren't the best place for a banger like Kanter to shine.

I'm more interested in Kanter's official measurements than his workouts.

Nah I'm with you, I think you meant to hit on Jay's quote. I'm hoping Kanter drops to us, but I'm certainly not holding my breath.

I'm all for the 6+Seraphin or Booker or even Blatche if it would land us Kanter. I'd like to keep the 18 pick and draft Singleton, but I'm probably being greedy.

[nate33]

Kawhi Leonard 6'7" in shoes. So about 6' 51/2" in socks. Standing reach and wingspan matter too, but that's a little on the short side for a SF.

Some comparisons:

Code: Select all

Name             Year     Ht. NoSh   Wt.    Wngspn     Reach     
Al Thornton      2007     6'5.75     221    7'1        8'8       
Wesley Johnson   2010     6'6.25     206    7'1        8'10       
Josh Howard      2003     6'5.25     202    7'2        8'9.5     
Renaldo Balkma   2006     6'5.25     206    7'1        8'8.5     
Tracy McGrady    1997     6'6.5      212    7'2        -         
James Posey      1999     6'6.5      208    7'0        -           
Rudy Gay         2006     6'7        222    7'3        8'11.20   
Marvin William   2005     6'7        228    7'3.5      9'0   

No worries here. It's hard to even find relatively short guys with such huge wingspans. All the ones I found have legit SF size, and Leonard has a bigger wingspan than almost all of them. Heck, the other guys that matched the specs were PF's like Blair, Diogu and Maxiell. Leonard easily has SF size. And given his rebounding numbers, I'd say he has SF strength and toughness.