Bobcats Picks Discussion (#9, #19, #39)

[Eoghan]

Jordan Williams, you can make a Sean May comparison. That's all I have to say isn't it?

[doc.end]

I'm not sold on J. Williams. I mean having Oakley I'm willing to give big men with shortcomings a chance but I wouldn't want to reach which may be necessary as there aren't many big bodies in this draft. I mean I wouldn't draft not worthy big with 19th if we could get not much worse players through second rounder or camps (on unguaranteed contract!). Saying that I admit I didn't research bigs in second round, it is a crap shoot anyway, so i probably wouldn't bother till we draft someone with 39th.

[SWedd523]

If he was from America we wouldn't even be having this discussion. If a huge wingspan is all that matters then Sene and Olowokandi would have been beasts. There's a reason why Ben Wallace and Mourning are the only small Centers to ever be successful.

There have been at least 50 players measured with a wingspan of at least 7-5. Of those, only four are of note: Shaq, Mourning, Brook Lopez, and Shawn Bradley. Keep in mind all of those guys are much taller than Biyombo.


Conversely, bigs measured at least 6'11'' in shoes fare much better. Here are some (height short to tall):

LaMarcus Aldridge (7'4.75)
Chris Bosh (7'3.5)
Joakim Noah (7'1.25)
Andrew Bogut (7'3)
Tyson Chandler (7'3)
Chris Kaman (6'11.75)



It goes much farther than just having a huge wingspan.

[doc.end]

Lol, i expected this. So before measurements mattered. Now suddenly they don't. Of course reach alone means almost nothing but we all know Biyombo has a good motor and how cooridanated he is. If you wouldn't mind watch those linked videos.

That's questionable. Of course height itself is not meaningless but after all it is only about how effectively you are able to use your gifted body. How is it possible that arguably best densive center - Dwight Howard - is shorter than all those guys? Javale McGee, prominent blocker - shorter as well. Actually Howard is a good example here being only inch taller and having only slightly better reach. Height is useful, so is vertical, so is wingspan, anticipation, fell for the game, lateral speed, reflexes, other things. You are just trying to find a reason for your prejudice. You can't win your argument cause it is meaningless.

[ohara]

My man Marshon is now listed as #22 ranked with ESPN and he is projected to go #20. Depending upon what we do at #9, he might be a very good selection for us at #19. But I fear he goes before then at this point. His stock is soaring.

[Charlottehoops]

I am watching the nba combine on espnu. Currently potential nba threes are working out. You will never guess who is looking the best right now. Chandler Parsons and Marcus Morris?

[Badd_Intentions]

Williams, Derrick 6'7.25'' 6'8.75'' 248.4 7'1.5'' 9'0''
Williams, Jordan 6'7.75'' 6'9'' 247.2 7'0.25'' 8'10.5''

Jordan Williams measured the same height at Derek Williams but Derek has a bigger wingspan and higher standing reach and people want to draft Jordan to be our Center? I think his measurements should remove Jordan Williams from our board. I'd rather resign Kwame, sign Aaran Gray as backup and draft a wingman (Klay Thompson, Reggie Jackson, Jordan Hamilton, Tyler Honeycutt).

Who wants him to be our center?

He'd be a great back up PF and change of pace to T2.

I would have to disagree on this one. Williams in college was a straight up center. He is a center in the body of a PF. He doesn't have the mobility to defend the 4 spot. Nor does he have the range on offense. He pretty much scores on post moves in the paint. I watched him in the combine workouts and when he's on the court with the other guys he looks like a boy amongst men. Not just size/athleticism but he isn't looking too confident and I saw him get his shot shoved back in his face in a one on one situation twice(I didn't catch who was defending). He is seeming like one of those guys that was a good college player but I'm not sure his game will translate well to the pros.

[Badd_Intentions]

Jordan Williams, you can make a Sean May comparison. That's all I have to say isn't it?

He isn't as pudgy as May, but May was the superior player IMO. May's skills were far more superior and he has range that we have yet to see from Williams.

[Marvel]

I'm just sitting back waiting for Bismack to play in the NBA...can't wait. Actions speak louder than words, measurements, "wingspan"...

[Diop]

I must say I'm not sold on all the Bitchsmack hype either. The lack of size and offense scares me, he seems like a young Reggie Evans.

[Diop]

As for our 2nd pick, I'd rather take a risk there. #19's don't have a history of having a big impact in the league, but I just read this story on Jeremy Tyler: http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=A ... aft_051811

Apparently he was projected to be the #1 pick for this draft but he f'd up and quit highschool to play in Israel and Japan. If #19 is a long shot anyway, why not make a leap of faith on this kid? He's got an NBA body right now and he's only 18 or 19.

I remember checking Tyler's Japanese team during the year to see how he was going and it wasn't impressive. This fella know's more about it than me and mentioned this:

He averaged 9 fouls and 6 turnovers per 36 in the Japanese league (MVP: Kosuke Takeuchi; Jai Lewis, Charles O'Bannon and Ryan Forehan-Kelly were 1st team selections). Large number of mistakes there. He'll probably need 1 year or 2 in the D-League.

He measures out well physically but I would only consider him in the 2nd round if we had no other prospects in mind.

[JMAC3]

I really like Klay, and think he is a great fit, but you cant take him over Donatas at this point. Motiejunas has some problems with his softness, but he is still a guaranteed 15 points a game I think in his prime. He could be a third scorer for us next year. He may not be huge, but he is still a 7 footer. I think he will bulk up to about 230 and I can live with that.

[SWedd523]

I can't win my argument because it disagrees with your POV, and that's fine, whatever.

The fact remains. How many 6'9 and below (in shoes) Centers can you name that have been great historically? Not many right? Now how many great Centers can you name that are over 6'9? A lot more. If Biyombo was "so great", why didn't he get any national attention until a couple of months ago? Too many questions about the kid if you ask me.

Sure, height isn't the be-all-end-all, but it seems to be a pretty big determinant on if a guy is going to be good or not. Just like Muggsy, Boykins, etc. succeed, but the countless other great, tiny PGs get no chance.

Now if we're talking about him being an "enforcer" PF like Dennis Rodman was, then we're on the same page. Trot him out next to Lopez, Bargnani, and the other soft big men and you have something. But I don't want to spend a lottery pick on the better version of Reggie Evans. We don't need solid big defense (we have Kwame, Diop, and countless other one-dimensional FAs for that). We need someone who can score in the post and take pressure off the guards.

[doc.end]

Maybe you should read his draftexpress profile. Lenght of his arms is freakish in comparison to his height. They have never seen anyone with such a ratio. That answer your question and points out your incapability to get the point - they aren't many succesful centers of this height as most of them have significantly shorter arms so they can't compensate lack of height that way so much.

To my knowledge Ben Wallace was 6-9. Bismack sems to have better motor than him IMHO.

I don't care about how high the pick is done. You pick from a certain pool, you pick the best one (or a need) you can. If the crop is weak it may look like some players were drafted to high in comparison to other drafts even if it was right decision to pick them. There can easily be players picked in this draft that would become bad contracts even on their rookie contracts. with possible change of rules, i wiould like to avoid busts. Bismack seems like a low risk choice to me, what he does well he does excelently, so you know what you get and parts of his game which need to be polished, that is always a bit of question, buit I believe Oakley and Silas to make those thing non-issues at least (remember what they did with Kwame) and Bismack seems to be a quick learner. His physical attributes are evident, there is always couple of picks each year based on "potential", fro example DeAndre Jordan was considered a top 10 pick for a while ending in second round. Worst case scenario you'd get an above average defensive big man who can play both positions who earns his money. I mean offensive centers are hard to get and there is already a sort of movement dreaming about Dwight Howard signing in Charlotte, so what's the point. We discuss Biyombo as acenter mostly because what he does is usually a job for a center and because we currently have a kind of ovepopulated PF position so he would naturally end up with minutes there.

I think I've read some mention about strong interest of his national team on DX, but anyway that kind of info won't pop often as pretty mcuh nobody cares about congolese basketball.

[Badd_Intentions]

Biyombo is a PF I believe, but he may very well see minutes at C. With his wingspan and standing reach he could see a fair amount of minutes at C depending on which team he goes to, if they like to play small/quick or have a big lug at C he can play PF. From what little i've seen though he does seem like a guy that will go out and get at least 10 RPG and a couple blocks given starting minutes. He also seems like he will influence shots around the rim if he doesn't block them.

I think what amazes scouts about BB is his wingspan, combined with his athletic ability, and willingness to grab boards, play defense, and block shots, at his young(supposedly) age. He really hasn't even been playing basketball for too many years, and they try to project what he'll be with NBA coaching down the line.

I would see him as a bigger more athletic version of Ben Wallace. If that turns out to be true then he is definitely worth a top 10 pick. I mean Ben won dPOTY a few times right. He'll have to go to a team with balanced scoring across the other 5 players on the floor or one with a star that can create for himself and others.

The big gamble is that there isn't much tape outside of the Nike Hoop Summit. Would take some brass balls to pick him that high based off that game. His handlers have shut him down aside from doing individual workouts, so you won't see any more 5-on-5 action from him until he suits up in the NBA. Interesting scenario b/c this guy came absolutely out of nowhere.

I would say that he has great upside with great risk. I've said it before, in our division with guys like Wade, LeBron, J. Smith, etc, we could use an athletic long arm freak to help defend the paint and you CAN'T have enough of those types of players (just take a look at how useful Chicago's bigs are in their current series). Huge risk vs huge reward. However I don't doubt his ability to hold down a spot at center. He's got the size, maybe not ideal 6'10'' but the wingspan, reach, weight, strength to hold down the spot. Hell Chuck Hayes starts at Center for Houston and he's only like 6'5'' lol.

[fatlever]

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2011/0 ... draft.html

rick talks about a few prospects this morning. nothing too deep.

[jstar5]

I haven't made up my mind on Biyombo yet, but I will say, if he was 6'11" we would have zero chance to draft him at 9...

So, if those 2 inches are the only reason he falls to us, then I think the unheard of freakishly long arms DO make up for the height and make him worth the risk.

The main question is he what this team needs, not he's only 6'9"so he will/won't be successful

[bobcats3wallace]

http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2011/

Interesting latest mock on draft express. They have Kanter going one pick prior to us at 8 and then Jordan Hamilton going one pick before us at 18. That would be an absolutely TERRIBLE draft if both of our targeted guys went one pick before us. Seems as though Kanter is starting to fall a bit. They no have him behind Valancius and Biyombo. Idk about you, but I would rather Kanter to both of those guys and i'm haven't even been on the Kanter bandwagon from the start.

They have us taking Danatas Motiejunas which they compare to Pau Gasol. Personally I think I would be fine with that pick, but I would expect for us to try and get Hamilton with the 19th and possibly trade up if we had to.

[debo23]

I was hoping we are going to end up with the wolves' 2 pick via some trades or maybe trade diaw +9th for beasley and 20th given kahn's comments at the combine...but knowing MJ, we'll end up trading TT for Brendan Haywood, draft Jimmer at 9th and Singler at 19th.

[Charlottehoops]

I haven't made up my mind on Biyombo yet, but I will say, if he was 6'11" we would have zero chance to draft him at 9...

So, if those 2 inches are the only reason he falls to us, then I think the unheard of freakishly long arms DO make up for the height and make him worth the risk.

The main question is he what this team needs, not he's only 6'9"so he will/won't be successful

No doubt. If Biyombo was 6'11 he would be the consensus number one pick.


Dontas at nine. Marshon at nineteen, and Jackson at 39 would be a great draft.

I was hoping we are going to end up with the wolves' 2 pick via some trades or maybe trade diaw +9th for beasley and 20th given kahn's comments at the combine...but knowing MJ, we'll end up trading TT for Brendan Haywood, draft Jimmer at 9th and Singler at 19th.

Knowing MJ nothing. When are you guys going to leave the past in the past. MJ has not done anything as silly as that. When he drafted Kwame number one Kwame was the consensus number one that year. Any of the gm's with the top pick would have taken Kwame. He just busted. Adam Morrison the same thing. Heck, Jerry West (the greatest gm of all time) tried to trade up with us to get Morrison. Jordan has made some great trades for us since he has been here. Our luck in the draft just hasn't been there. Instead of crying about things that happened years ago how about we cross our fingers that things will go better from now on.