KB2011 MOCK: 1st Pick Cavs Selects Kyrie Irving

[Esq-4]

I don't think that Williams will be around at the 4th pick. If you went just on pure need, and eliminated the possibility of trades, if the Cavs don't take him at 1, logically he could be there at 4, but it doesn't work out that way.

What I mean is, sure if Irving goes 1, Kanter makes the most sense for MIN, and a PG makes the most sense for UTA at 3*. So why not get Williams at the 4? MIN has Beasley at the 3/4, Love at the 4, and Wes Johnson at the 2/3, plus Flynn and maybe eventually Rubio at the 1. Biggest need seems to be the 5. (and not the mention AR at 4 too). Why get another tweener forward? Well do you really put it past Kahn picking redundantly?

Utah is probably only set at the 4 with Al Jeff and Milsap. Sure AJ can play the 5, and does often and they have Okur, but a legit inside C would be nice. I thought they needed a 3, but our pick was used by them last year for they kid from Gordan Hayward, I'm sure they haven't given up on him yet. So Williams is not the most attractive pick position wise for them either. Do they need a PG (replace Harris), SG (who do they Wes Matthews?), or C IDK, just doesn't seem like a 3 or 4 is on top of the list. But again, if a guy like Williams is there, take him.

All that typing just to say that Williams won't fall out of the top 2, top 3 for sure. It's sort of like the Rose/Beasley draft where everyone said it was a weak draft (we hear that a lot lately - seems like every year is a weak draft). Rampant speculation on if Rose or Beasely would go no. 1, no doubt the other goes 2. To add to the comparison, Beasley is a tweener PF/SF, and Irving a scoring PG. Interesting. The one thorn in that could be the workouts of Kanter. Teams love big men and if he can show his stuff, someone might reach at the no. 2 spot (Minny who it makes sense for or via trade), meaning UTA at 3.

* PG for UTA is based more on my reading mocks etc. If not for that, and reading they are down on Harris, I would have thought there were set there, and would most want a 5 (Kanter). Then if they really want another option at point use the 12 pick for Jimmer etc. Which probably is the better route to go if you are them, but all the mocks say they are likely to take Knight or Kemba.

[NBA Fan 1234]

I'd say Irving...I know they need a small forward, but this is a point guard's league. When team's have good point guards, they have a lot of success.

Williams is a hell of a player, but I don't see him as a full time small forward...and they already have Hickson at PF so they don't really need a combo forward. If they end up trading Hickson THEN I can see them picking Williams.

Scoring first point guards (which irving is) tend to get there teams W's in the regular season but not in the post season (use Chicago and OKC as a reference). Wing scorers are what you need to get you over the hump (use Miami and Dallas as a reference)

I don't think he's a score first point guard at all. He's a pass first point that can score. I know his stats in college make it seem like he's a scorer first, but he's not. He's got very good vision and is a very smart player. I really think he's more in the mold of CP3 than, say, Rose/Westbrook. The NBA is a great fit for him because it's a much faster game and they run more pick and rolls (which is where Irving would excel).

Wing scorers - Granger? He can't lead his team by himself...Miami and Dallas are poor examples IMO because Miami has Wade and LeBron who play shooting guard and small forward respectively (they are not tweeners/combos). Dallas is a poor one because Dirk is only a 4...unless they decide to go small (which they did yesterday for a few minutes) and play him at the 5. Williams is a 3/4 tweener...a Beasley with a mean streak. He can't play the 3 full time IMO.

[JuwannaJeffries]

Kyrie Irving. As someone said, PG's are a huge part of the NBA. He can turn the franchise around. At 4, I can see them taking Kanter.

[Esq-4]

Oh, that long post and not putting in my guess. Irving goes 1st. Just get that feeling. Maybe I'm drinking the cool aid.

But personally, I'm torn with the idea of getting Williams 1 and then either Kanter or Knight at 4. Like someone said, CLE doesn't need a PG right now. If they are convinced Irving is going to be nasty, then take him, and go BPA at 4. Otherwise, drafting Williams basically guarantees them Kanter or Knight at the 4 pick. MIN probably takes Irving themselves, or trades the pick (Rubio isn't here and Flynn hasn't been great so PG is unbelievably a need), if not they Kanter b/c it makes sense. UTA take Irving if he slips (doubtful) or Kanter or Knight (or Kemba according to mocks). Meaning CLE can possibly get there PG of the future at 4, or their big man.

[mpharris36]

I'd say Irving...I know they need a small forward, but this is a point guard's league. When team's have good point guards, they have a lot of success.

Williams is a hell of a player, but I don't see him as a full time small forward...and they already have Hickson at PF so they don't really need a combo forward. If they end up trading Hickson THEN I can see them picking Williams.

Scoring first point guards (which irving is) tend to get there teams W's in the regular season but not in the post season (use Chicago and OKC as a reference). Wing scorers are what you need to get you over the hump (use Miami and Dallas as a reference)

I don't think he's a score first point guard at all. He's a pass first point that can score. I know his stats in college make it seem like he's a scorer first, but he's not. He's got very good vision and is a very smart player. I really think he's more in the mold of CP3 than, say, Rose/Westbrook. The NBA is a great fit for him because it's a much faster game and they run more pick and rolls (which is where Irving would excel).

Wing scorers - Granger? He can't lead his team by himself...Miami and Dallas are poor examples IMO because Miami has Wade and LeBron who play shooting guard and small forward respectively (they are not tweeners/combos). Dallas is a poor one because Dirk is only a 4...unless they decide to go small (which they did yesterday for a few minutes) and play him at the 5. Williams is a 3/4 tweener...a Beasley with a mean streak. He can't play the 3 full time IMO.

Kevin Durant came out as a tweener. 4 height with a 3 man's weight...he has done pretty well for himself. Williams can post up smaller 3's because he already has a back to the basket game which he showed in college. And he has good enough handle to break down bigger 4's. I think he will excel in the nba game. Maybe because he was hurt I just didn't see anything explosive about irving to but him into CP3 mold. And he sure isn't the freak athlete that rose or westbrook is

[atribecalledrch]

Irving. He's only 19 and the few games we saw him play he went off. He is truly going to be a force in the league with some elbow grease. With that said I think Kanter will go 2nd since the Timberwolves have no legit Center. Adding Kanter would make their 5 completely ready to develop together and to become a contender in the next 5 years. That leaves the Jazz to take Knight or Walker. Then the Cavs take Williams.

[GONYK]

Do people really think Cleveland will pass up Irving because Baron Davis?

Kyrie will be the pick

[Jmonty580]

Oh, that long post and not putting in my guess. Irving goes 1st. Just get that feeling. Maybe I'm drinking the cool aid.

But personally, I'm torn with the idea of getting Williams 1 and then either Kanter or Knight at 4. Like someone said, CLE doesn't need a PG right now. If they are convinced Irving is going to be nasty, then take him, and go BPA at 4. Otherwise, drafting Williams basically guarantees them Kanter or Knight at the 4 pick. MIN probably takes Irving themselves, or trades the pick (Rubio isn't here and Flynn hasn't been great so PG is unbelievably a need), if not they Kanter b/c it makes sense. UTA take Irving if he slips (doubtful) or Kanter or Knight (or Kemba according to mocks). Meaning CLE can possibly get there PG of the future at 4, or their big man.

It depends on how important they think the pg position is first off. And looking around the NBA it seems to be the most important position. Secondly it depends on how they compare Irving, Knight and Walker. If they like them all pretty much the same then I can see going with Williams first and then getting the pg that is still left. But chances are they like 1 way more than the other 2. And I'd think that 1 point gaurd ultimately is going to hold more value and help winning more than Williams alone. Just my opinion though. Cavs are in a wonderful position though, lol great problems to have.

[wambam78]

What looks better?

PG: Kemba
SG: Parker
SF: Williams
PF: Whoever
C: Varajeo

PG: Irving
SG: Parker
SF: Hickson
PF: Varajeo
C: Valanceus/Kanter

Ill take the second lineup all day. They are idiots if they do not pick irving # 1

[mpharris36]

What looks better?

PG: Kemba
SG: Parker
SF: Williams
PF: Whoever
C: Varajeo

PG: Irving
SG: Parker
SF: Hickson
PF: Varajeo
C: Valanceus/Kanter

Ill take the second lineup all day. They are idiots if they do not pick irving # 1

Hickson playing SF is laughable the dude is a 4 and only a 4....he can't stretch the floor or can stay in front of 3's.

[SonOfMars]

What looks better?

PG: Kemba
SG: Parker
SF: Williams
PF: Whoever
C: Varajeo

PG: Irving
SG: Parker
SF: Hickson
PF: Varajeo
C: Valanceus/Kanter

Ill take the second lineup all day. They are idiots if they do not pick irving # 1

but Hickson cant play extended minutes at the 3...

so the first lineup is better

[mpharris36]

What looks better?

PG: Kemba/Knight
SG: Parker
SF: Williams
PF: JJ Hickson
C: Varajeo

PG: Irving
SG: Parker
SF: Eyenga
PF: Varajeo
C: Valanceus/Kanter

Ill take the second lineup all day. They are idiots if they do not pick irving # 1

fixed...now which is better, it's pretty much the eye of the beholder

[Marty McFly]

Do people really think Cleveland will pass up Irving because Baron Davis?

Kyrie will be the pick

not because of baron, but because they've got other needs.

[NBA Fan 1234]

Scoring first point guards (which irving is) tend to get there teams W's in the regular season but not in the post season (use Chicago and OKC as a reference). Wing scorers are what you need to get you over the hump (use Miami and Dallas as a reference)

I don't think he's a score first point guard at all. He's a pass first point that can score. I know his stats in college make it seem like he's a scorer first, but he's not. He's got very good vision and is a very smart player. I really think he's more in the mold of CP3 than, say, Rose/Westbrook. The NBA is a great fit for him because it's a much faster game and they run more pick and rolls (which is where Irving would excel).

Wing scorers - Granger? He can't lead his team by himself...Miami and Dallas are poor examples IMO because Miami has Wade and LeBron who play shooting guard and small forward respectively (they are not tweeners/combos). Dallas is a poor one because Dirk is only a 4...unless they decide to go small (which they did yesterday for a few minutes) and play him at the 5. Williams is a 3/4 tweener...a Beasley with a mean streak. He can't play the 3 full time IMO.

Kevin Durant came out as a tweener. 4 height with a 3 man's weight...he has done pretty well for himself. Williams can post up smaller 3's because he already has a back to the basket game which he showed in college. And he has good enough handle to break down bigger 4's. I think he will excel in the nba game. Maybe because he was hurt I just didn't see anything explosive about irving to but him into CP3 mold. And he sure isn't the freak athlete that rose or westbrook is

He came out as a tweener 4/3? That's news to me...I'm pretty sure he was always just a wing player (2/3)...

Williams' foot speed won't be able to contain the top small forwards...he's quick for his size, but he's not quick enough to guard small forwards on a daily basis for the whole game. He'd get killed on defense...I agree that he would be able to post up small forwards though. I really think he's a stronger Beasley with a mean streak...

Irving is a very smart player on offense and defense. You don't need to be a freak athlete to be a good point guard. In fact, I'd say he's got nothing in common with Rose. The reason I compare him to Paul is because of his passing ability and the way he sees the court. He makes his team better. Take a look at some of his +/- stats. In every game he played except the one against Arizona where Duke played like sh*t and Williams took a dump on Duke, he had a positive plus minus. http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/player ... plus_minus

4 assists per game in only 27 minutes is pretty impressive...and that is taking into account his games after the injury where he was working his way back (only 6 in 3 games).

He may not end up being the Paul who first came into the league and averaged 18-20, 10, 4, and 2 steals, but I think he is going to average close to that.

[taj2133]

It will be kyrie will be selceted by the cavs he is a great talent and they need him. I actually met kyrie here in north carolina couple of times nice kid.

[Jmonty580]

What looks better?

PG: Kemba/Knight
SG: Parker
SF: Williams
PF: JJ Hickson
C: Varajeo

PG: Irving
SG: Parker
SF: Eyenga
PF: Varajeo
C: Valanceus/Kanter

Ill take the second lineup all day. They are idiots if they do not pick irving # 1

fixed...now which is better, it's pretty much the eye of the beholder

Id take Irving first but I can see where you could consider taking Williams first, he defientely fills a need. and Varjeo could play center solid i guess.

it really comes down to this. Irving vs. Knight/Walker and Williams vs. Valanceus/Kanter.

To me for thier team they'd be better off with a pg and center than a pg and sf/pf. I do like all of Knight, Irving and Walker in their own ways I think all of them will be very good NBA pgs, but I also think Valanceus and Kanter will be very good centers too. Its a toss up, but I still think the most talented player who will have the biggets impact on the league will be irving, so you take him first.

What if they took Irving, and either Valanceus or Kanter with 4, and then trade Varajeo to someone like hmm, lets say the Knicks for the 17th pick and Landry fields? they could fill even more needs like that.

[mpharris36]

He came out as a tweener 4/3? That's news to me...I'm pretty sure he was always just a wing player (2/3)...

Williams' foot speed won't be able to contain the top small forwards...he's quick for his size, but he's not quick enough to guard small forwards on a daily basis for the whole game. He'd get killed on defense...I agree that he would be able to post up small forwards though. I really think he's a stronger Beasley with a mean streak...

Irving is a very smart player on offense and defense. You don't need to be a freak athlete to be a good point guard. In fact, I'd say he's got nothing in common with Rose. The reason I compare him to Paul is because of his passing ability and the way he sees the court. He makes his team better. Take a look at some of his +/- stats. In every game he played except the one against Arizona where Duke played like sh*t and Williams took a dump on Duke, he had a positive plus minus. http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/player ... plus_minus

4 assists per game in only 27 minutes is pretty impressive...and that is taking into account his games after the injury where he was working his way back (only 6 in 3 games).

He may not end up being the Paul who first came into the league and averaged 18-20, 10, 4, and 2 steals, but I think he is going to average close to that.

Durant played the 4 in college at Texas. He also starts at the 3 and usually finishes games at the 4 in the nba. OKC starts Westbrook, Sefolosha, Durant, Ibaka, Perkins and they usually finish games with Westbrook, Harden, Cook/Sefelosha and they take Ibaka out.

Durant is 6'10 he has never played a minute at the 2 in his life. He is just as quick as Durant and the 3 and he holds his own there.

As for Irving I think he's a good player no doubt. But whats a more moveable piece ove the next 3 years. Hickson or Davis. Hickson can get u good value yet you are stuck with davis awful contract riding pine for multiple years. My other point is I think Walker and Knight are just as talented as Irving and don't see a huge drop of in talent level. but that just my opinion

[nykballa2k4]

Looking at the cavs, their only NON need is pg, this draft has 2 strong positions, SF and PG. Irving, Knight and Walker all have some star potential as does Williams at SF. The Wolves are in a similar spot, they have Flynn, Rubio, Ridnour as point guards. Their weaknesses are 2 and 5.

Is there a way for Cavs to pressure the Wolves into trading pick 2 for pick 4? Something like pick 4 and a top 3 protected pick next season for pick #2? Or maybe Cavs have faith in Varejao/Hollins and would deal JJ Hickson with #4 for Pekovic and #2, then wolves would take Kantar/Valancuines. Utah will likely take one of them, with Harris already there (Though Knight is a better passer)

IMO take Irving. If Wolves want BPA they are going to have to trade Wes, Beasley. If wolves want a center, they can trade down.

Not likely, but Wes Johnson, Derrick Williams(#2), Pekovic for Hickson, Kantar (#4), Eyenga
Cavs
Varejao
Williams
Wes
Davis
Irving

Wolves
Kantar
Love
Beasley
Webster
Flynn

[BLACKFEET 2010]

Their best young players is Hickson. And he's a four. Williams is a skilled four...not a three. It wouldn't make an iota of sense to pick him. Sessions and Boobie can and likely will be moved to to not hinder the development of Kyrie. I can see them starting Baron for one, to up his value and maybe find a sucker, I mean taker for his contract and to ease the pressure from the starved Cav fan base for instant dividends from their #1 pick. That won't last long...but Byron Scott comes off as a guy that won't just give in to a rook or to management for PR purposes....and he's coached some pretty good point guards in his career, so he knows how to develop them; I don't think he believes or buys in to entitling a player because of the hype. And Baron (who is still capable of playing some high-level ball when motivated) will not take kindly to being upstaged or pushed to the bench by a rookie...but it will undoubtedly be the case that he is eventually. It makes for good theater. And for a team like this that will struggle to win many games, they can't really ask for more. There is a good chance with some creative thinking that they can snag the #2 pick as well by shipping Andy V and maybe involving Philly (Iggy) in a three way with Minnie and dangling the #4 pick.

[mpharris36]

What looks better?

PG: Kemba/Knight
SG: Parker
SF: Williams
PF: JJ Hickson
C: Varajeo

PG: Irving
SG: Parker
SF: Eyenga
PF: Varajeo
C: Valanceus/Kanter

Ill take the second lineup all day. They are idiots if they do not pick irving # 1

fixed...now which is better, it's pretty much the eye of the beholder

Id take Irving first but I can see where you could consider taking Williams first, he defientely fills a need. and Varjeo could play center solid i guess.

it really comes down to this. Irving vs. Knight/Walker and Williams vs. Valanceus/Kanter.

To me for thier team they'd be better off with a pg and center than a pg and sf/pf. I do like all of Knight, Irving and Walker in their own ways I think all of them will be very good NBA pgs, but I also think Valanceus and Kanter will be very good centers too. Its a toss up, but I still think the most talented player who will have the biggets impact on the league will be irving, so you take him first.

What if they took Irving, and either Valanceus or Kanter with 4, and then trade Varajeo to someone like hmm, lets say the Knicks for the 17th pick and Landry fields? they could fill even more needs like that.

Now if you could garuntee me that Kanter falls to 4 I would consider the combo of irving and kanter over willaims and knight/walker. But many mocks do not have kanter dropping to 4 and that would be a huge risk hoping he drops. Picking williams garuntees you a pg at 4. Irving at 1 doesn't garuntee you Kanter at 4...but it might be a risk worth taking...i see your point.