2011 DRAFT blather goes here. Part 3...

[Rafael122]

Boston has got nothing to offer. Clippers pick I believe is top 10 protected and you just know that team is going to suck next year so it's worthless.

[Benjammin]

One thought:

If Kanter and Valanciunas are gone at #6, our best bet might be to draft Biyombo. The reason is that Detroit really wants a big man in this draft. With Kanter, Valanciunas and Biyombo gone by #8, they'll probably be willing to trade to get Biyombo.

We draft Biyombo at #6

Sacramento drafts Walker at #7

Detroit trades with us to move up to #6. We draft Leonard at #8 while coming away with incentive from Detroit.

Unless the incentive is good, I would just keep Biyombo. I am not a fan of Vesely or Leonard in the top 8. If a team wants to give up a lot to move up just a few spots then I might think differently.

[AnotherFinn]

I was thinking about that, too. Detroit would likely be in a no-win situation at 8 - if BizB isn't there, and he could be a very good fit for them. We'd be in a nice bargaining postion with them. If we could pick up their 2012 pick with little to no protection, it might be worth pursuing.

Detroit board is not that down on Vesely, so they most likely just will pick him instead trading.

[Ruzious]

I was thinking about that, too. Detroit would likely be in a no-win situation at 8 - if BizB isn't there, and he could be a very good fit for them. We'd be in a nice bargaining postion with them. If we could pick up their 2012 pick with little to no protection, it might be worth pursuing.

Detroit board is not that down on Vesely, so they most likely just will pick him instead trading.

Hey, and the Detroit board makes the decision.

I'm down on Vesely in general, but I think he'd be especially useless with Detroit - considering the long lean forwards they already have - Prince and Day plus Villa and Jerebko as tweeners - not to mention Rip, McGrady, and Summers possibly being able to fit in as 3's.

[nate33]

After seeming the combine results, I'm now entertaining the notion of drafting Fredette at #18. He's the 3rd-quickest athlete in the draft and has good strength and wingspan. His D can't be that bad. Maybe his woeful D at BYU was by design in order for him to conserve energy.

In a year or two after Wall fills out, I could see Fredette and Wall sharing the backcourt for stretches with Wall guarding the SG.

Some measurements:

Code: Select all

Name             Year     Ht.NoSh    Wt.    Wngspn     Reach           
Stephen Curry    2009     6'2        181    6'3.5      8'1       
James Fredette   2011     6'0.75     196    6'4.5      8'0.5     

Name             NS Vrt   Mx Vrt     Bnch   Agility    Sprnt       
Stephen Curry    29.5     35.5       10     11.07      3.28       
James Fredette   28       33         14     10.42      3.21       

Why exactly is Fredette a borderline lottery pick at best, whereas Curry was a #6 pick?

[Rafael122]

After seeming the combine results, I'm now entertaining the notion of drafting Fredette at #18. He's the 3rd-quickest athlete in the draft and has good strength and wingspan. His D can't be that bad. Maybe his woeful D at BYU was by design in order for him to conserve energy.

In a year or two after Wall fills out, I could see Fredette and Wall sharing the backcourt for stretches with Wall guarding the SG.

Some measurements:

Code: Select all

Name             Year     Ht.NoSh    Wt.    Wngspn     Reach           
Stephen Curry    2009     6'2        181    6'3.5      8'1       
James Fredette   2011     6'0.75     196    6'4.5      8'0.5     

Name             NS Vrt   Mx Vrt     Bnch   Agility    Sprnt       
Stephen Curry    29.5     35.5       10     11.07      3.28       
James Fredette   28       33         14     10.42      3.21       

Why exactly is Fredette a borderline lottery pick at best, whereas Curry was a #6 pick?

Jimmer was probably seen as another white dude who has no athletic ability.

And I doubt he's there at #18. Jazz have two chances to pick him up, and there's Indiana.

[GhostsOfGil]

After seeming the combine results, I'm now entertaining the notion of drafting Fredette at #18. He's the 3rd-quickest athlete in the draft and has good strength and wingspan. His D can't be that bad. Maybe his woeful D at BYU was by design in order for him to conserve energy.

In a year or two after Wall fills out, I could see Fredette and Wall sharing the backcourt for stretches with Wall guarding the SG.

Some measurements:

Code: Select all

Name             Year     Ht.NoSh    Wt.    Wngspn     Reach           
Stephen Curry    2009     6'2        181    6'3.5      8'1       
James Fredette   2011     6'0.75     196    6'4.5      8'0.5     

Name             NS Vrt   Mx Vrt     Bnch   Agility    Sprnt       
Stephen Curry    29.5     35.5       10     11.07      3.28       
James Fredette   28       33         14     10.42      3.21       

Why exactly is Fredette a borderline lottery pick at best, whereas Curry was a #6 pick?

well we do have the 6th pick this year

[Illuminaire]

Its fine that everyone wants to address our defensive needs in this draft but just how are going to score points?

It's fine that everyone wants to address our scoring needs in the draft, but how are we going to rebound and defend?

I say that not to be a smartass, but to establish that neither route is inherently better than the other. It's just a preference.

[tontoz]

After seeming the combine results, I'm now entertaining the notion of drafting Fredette at #18. He's the 3rd-quickest athlete in the draft and has good strength and wingspan. His D can't be that bad. Maybe his woeful D at BYU was by design in order for him to conserve energy.

In a year or two after Wall fills out, I could see Fredette and Wall sharing the backcourt for stretches with Wall guarding the SG.

Some measurements:

Code: Select all

Name             Year     Ht.NoSh    Wt.    Wngspn     Reach           
Stephen Curry    2009     6'2        181    6'3.5      8'1       
James Fredette   2011     6'0.75     196    6'4.5      8'0.5     

Name             NS Vrt   Mx Vrt     Bnch   Agility    Sprnt       
Stephen Curry    29.5     35.5       10     11.07      3.28       
James Fredette   28       33         14     10.42      3.21       

Why exactly is Fredette a borderline lottery pick at best, whereas Curry was a #6 pick?

well we do have the 6th pick this year

[tontoz]

Its fine that everyone wants to address our defensive needs in this draft but just how are going to score points?

It's fine that everyone wants to address our scoring needs in the draft, but how are we going to rebound and defend?

I say that not to be a smartass, but to establish that neither route is inherently better than the other. It's just a preference.

The bulk of the rebounding should be coming from the 4/5 spots. With Wall as a pg the 2/3 spots need to be able to score. if they can't then the spacing is going to be terrible.

Not only was Leonard a poor perimeter scorer but he was also poor at finishing inside. Given his size and athleticism that is a bit alarming.

[Benjammin]

After seeming the combine results, I'm now entertaining the notion of drafting Fredette at #18. He's the 3rd-quickest athlete in the draft and has good strength and wingspan. His D can't be that bad. Maybe his woeful D at BYU was by design in order for him to conserve energy.

In a year or two after Wall fills out, I could see Fredette and Wall sharing the backcourt for stretches with Wall guarding the SG.



Why exactly is Fredette a borderline lottery pick at best, whereas Curry was a #6 pick?

I've been advocating for Jimmer at 18 for some time before the combine results. He would be a great spot guy off the bench. However, I think even without his good combine numbers his "starpower" and "complexion" would likely help lead a team to pick him before 18. Now with these numbers I think it's almost a slam dunk he won't make it to 18. But if he is there, I'd be very interested in taking him.

[Illuminaire]

The bulk of the rebounding should be coming from the 4/5 spots.

Our team gives up long rebounds and tends to be weak at getting hustle boards. That's where you want a strong rebounder at the 2/3 spot.

With Wall as a pg the 2/3 spots need to be able to score. if they can't then the spacing is going to be terrible.

And if we can't control the boards or get stops, our team defensive rating will be terrible. This is half a dozen of one, six of another. To quote my last post: "neither route is inherently better than the other. It's just a preference."

Not only was Leonard a poor perimeter scorer but he was also poor at finishing inside. Given his size and athleticism that is a bit alarming.

He also drew fouls at a good rate and played with mostly meh shooters. When you ask a mediocre offensive player to carry a team's scoring load, poor shooting numbers are what happens.

You could be very right that he never develops, though. I've been ceding that point for about 30 pages. All of our options have holes like that, unfortunately. Biyombo may never learn plays or how to shoot, Harper may never learn to pass or rebound balls that don't bounce directly to him, etc...

No matter who we draft, we'll be hoping and praying they improve *something*. =p

[tontoz]

The bulk of the rebounding should be coming from the 4/5 spots.

Our team gives up long rebounds and tends to be weak at getting hustle boards. That's where you want a strong rebounder at the 2/3 spot.

With Wall as a pg the 2/3 spots need to be able to score. if they can't then the spacing is going to be terrible.

And if we can't control the boards or get stops, our team defensive rating will be terrible. This is half a dozen of one, six of another. To quote my last post: "neither route is inherently better than the other. It's just a preference."

This team gives up all rebounds. I don't see the point in focusing on long ones. The problem is that this team does not have one player at the 4/5 spots that is a good defensive rebounder. All of them, except possibly McGee, are bad defensive rebounders. No wing player is going to change that. That is a separate issue that certainly needs to be addressed.

The reality is that this team is far better on defense than on offense, even with their poor defensive rebounding.

[WizarDynasty]

there is only one bigman in the draft who fits our needs in post scoring. It's a very good chance that cleveland drafts him with their second pick.
Kanter has to get passed Minnesota..who has beasley and love and rubio coming over...then he has to get past Cleveland after they drafted kyrie with their first pick and have no starting center on their roster---
and then Toronto who has needs a low post scoring. Unless we have something that is a better option than Kanter for them--or they are scared off by his knees highly unlikely..


So what this board realizes that is the reality, we have to come to terms that we still need defensive rebounding as a number one priority. what better option exist for minnesota outside of derrick williams.

If anything they want Kanter for themselves but our hedging that they cleveland want's derrick williams so badly that they will give them assets to move up the the 2nd spot and get Kanter at 4. We just don't have the assets to grab kanter so considering that reality, our next best option is Biyombo or Valuncias (spelling) but neither of these two provide inside scoring. Furthermore, Biyombo doesn't have the lower body strength to match up with centers and he transforms your offense into a 4 on 5 every offensive
possession.

Valuncias a defensive center in the haywood format won't be in the league probably for another 2 years.

So now that moves you to forwards...Vesely, although nice size has pretty terrible hands and poor coordination close the basket.
We have singleton who prides himself on defense but has a very poor basketball iq. Looking at his assists.
we have leonard who is stiff---but one of the most dominant rebounders has the wingspan and hands of a seven foote, basketball iq, lead his team to success.

After that you have the morris twins, who have horrible measurable, very small hands, and neither of them is quick enough to guards shooting guards on the perimeter.

We didn't win the lottery folks, or even move up a few spots. We could have had the same fate last year, but we got lucky and got wall instead of Wes. Johnson, D. Favors. I will take the 1st from last year and 6th this year rather than the other way around--with option of Kanter or Williams as my franchise player.

so again, the key to understanding all is that minnesota has beasley and love at the forward spots. beasley was high lotto pick with many of the same attributes that williams has. Minnesota isn't looking to ditch williams for love and love can't play center.
Now Minnesota may go for point guard depending on the rubio situation but the odds are that they go for a bigman since they don't have a starting caliber center. If rubio is coming over, then you can expect them to pull of a trade to get a center or draft enes.

So if minnesota does trade their pick for a starting caliber center, then Cleveland is the next team that takes enes because they don't have a bigman that plays center outside of injured varejao. unless we have a package that Minnesota wants that is better than Enes, then we are better off spending our energy on option past enes. We need a small forward that complements this teams weakness. I definitely see Leonard being able to stroke the three based on his mechanics and his rebouding and defensive potential..all fit what we severely need. I am turned off by singleton because he has poor handle and poor assists which usually translate into low basketball iq and Al thornton on offense. I just see alot of al thornton with singleton outside of his ability to knock down the three with his feet set but i may be wrong. 7'1 wingspan is decent but nick young as the same wingspan. He has very nice vertical but lack of ball handling, he didn't lead his team to a high ranking.
I just leonard as the better fit. even if we were to trade down from 6th and pick up multiple role players, none of the players available after six are better than any of our starters..faried included. I just don't see players with two way potential after leonard...but maybe i am wrong.

Finally a small forward is considered a front court player. A wing player is reserved for a small forward that is really a shooting guard because the wing player on defense is incapable of guarding a powerforward. If your small forward can guard both a shooting guard and a powerforward then he is more than a wing player.
deshaun stevenson and maurice evans playing small forward are wing player because they can't guard p/fs.
When you look at dennis rodman, no one considered him a wing player but he played the small forward position. Same with James Worthy.

[Nivek]

tontoz & Illuminaire -- both of you are basically correct.

Better rebounding teams tend to have good rebounders at PF and C -- usually at C. You want guys who are good rebounders at the positions too, but what's best is the guys up front to control the glass.

Building with offense or defense is an either or proposition. Championship teams are typically balanced teams that are very good at both ends of the floor. Unbalanced teams sometimes make conference finals or the Finals, but typically are losers. (Those unbalanced teams that reach the Finals are usually elite defensive units and below average on the offensive end.)

Historically, the quickest way to improve has been to upgrade the offense, because broadly speaking offense is more about individual talent and defense is more about system and teamwork. That said, unless you can find some of that quality offensive talent, you might as well build a culture of defense so that when you plug in an offensive force, he's coming into a group that prides itself on defending. These are not mutually exclusive approaches, however. Good offensive players can be good defenders. Which sorta leads me right back to where I always am on draft day -- pick the best available player.

[Illuminaire]

Historically, the quickest way to improve has been to upgrade the offense, because broadly speaking offense is more about individual talent and defense is more about system and teamwork. That said, unless you can find some of that quality offensive talent, you might as well build a culture of defense so that when you plug in an offensive force, he's coming into a group that prides itself on defending. These are not mutually exclusive approaches, however. Good offensive players can be good defenders. Which sorta leads me right back to where I always am on draft day -- pick the best available player.

That's basically all I'm saying too - with the caveat that I want someone with heart, who really loves to play the game and play it hard. If the talent is otherwise similar, I want the guy who's going to catalyze the team like a Tony Allen or Noah.

[AnotherFinn]

there is only one bigman in the draft who fits our needs in post scoring. It's a very good chance that cleveland drafts him with their second pick.
Kanter has to get passed Minnesota..who has beasley and love and rubio coming over...then he has to get past Cleveland after they drafted kyrie with their first pick and have no starting center on their roster---
and then Toronto who has needs a low post scoring. Unless we have something that is a better option than Kanter for them--or they are scared off by his knees highly unlikely..

After watching David Locke's scouting report video I think you can safely put Utah Jazz on that list too...

[tontoz]

Historically, the quickest way to improve has been to upgrade the offense, because broadly speaking offense is more about individual talent and defense is more about system and teamwork. That said, unless you can find some of that quality offensive talent, you might as well build a culture of defense so that when you plug in an offensive force, he's coming into a group that prides itself on defending. These are not mutually exclusive approaches, however. Good offensive players can be good defenders. Which sorta leads me right back to where I always am on draft day -- pick the best available player.

That's basically all I'm saying too - with the caveat that I want someone with heart, who really loves to play the game and play it hard. If the talent is otherwise similar, I want the guy who's going to catalyze the team like a Tony Allen or Noah.

Tony Allen would be a bad fit here. In Memphis he is surrounded by scorers so it is easy for them to start a defensive specialist.

Noah plays inside and it is much easier for an interior player to have an impact on defense and especially on the boards.

It is easy to say pick the best player but identifying the best player is not that easy, especially later in the draft. I would guess that most teams identify a group of available players of roughly the same ability and then pick among them based on team needs.

Given that the Wizards franchise player struggles to shoot from the perimeter that makes it that much more important to have wing players who can shoot. If you want to upgrade the defense and defensive rebounding better to draft BB since he would have the chance to have a bigger impact on both, playing inside.

The teams defensive rebounding is a major sore spot for me so i know where you are coming from. The bigs just don't box out worth a dam.

[Ruzious]

After seeming the combine results, I'm now entertaining the notion of drafting Fredette at #18. He's the 3rd-quickest athlete in the draft and has good strength and wingspan. His D can't be that bad. Maybe his woeful D at BYU was by design in order for him to conserve energy.

In a year or two after Wall fills out, I could see Fredette and Wall sharing the backcourt for stretches with Wall guarding the SG.

Some measurements:

Code: Select all

Name             Year     Ht.NoSh    Wt.    Wngspn     Reach           
Stephen Curry    2009     6'2        181    6'3.5      8'1       
James Fredette   2011     6'0.75     196    6'4.5      8'0.5     

Name             NS Vrt   Mx Vrt     Bnch   Agility    Sprnt       
Stephen Curry    29.5     35.5       10     11.07      3.28       
James Fredette   28       33         14     10.42      3.21       

Why exactly is Fredette a borderline lottery pick at best, whereas Curry was a #6 pick?

You're preaching to the choir (if I could sing), but if he's not picked by #12, I'd be very surprised.

[Hoopalotta]

I think most here would rage if we passed on the Jimmer at 18, but we've probably got to move up if we want him.