Lakers/Pistons Model, [Horf + Sy trade]

[Ruhiel]

Motiejunas+Hill+Hasheem+FAMalcolm Thomas [Horf + Sy trade]


In addition to scouting them I included measurements that suggest similar comparisons and similar physical toolboxes.
D.M. the post play and 15 foot & 3pt shot is present in D.M. only thing he does is like Blake Griffin he has short arms and gives up a bit defensively. I think Clippers are happy with Blake though. He takes jumpers. 7'0 Motiejunas shoots accurately with his height advantage like Garnett.
a perfect glue guy.

Jeff Teague/Joe Johnson/Josh Smith/Donatas Motiejunas*/Hasheem Thabeet
Kirk Hinrich/Travis Leslie*/(Marvin Williams)/Jordan Hill/Zaza Pachulia
:::::
Houston gets

Al Horford
Pape Sy

Atlanta gets

Hasheem Thabeet
Jordan Hill
14th pick
23rd pick
:::
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=3to95gw

don't know what the Rockets game plan is but this team basically turned
>>>Jason Collins into Thabeet.
Al Horford >>>
1) potential Dwyane Wade/Tony Allen with offense off the bench (no talent drop off):o ,
2) potential Zach Randolph (measurements fit here as well), some say small arms are detriment for bigs but its all about proportions.

3) Moved Marvin a guy who has the arms of a center and moves like it to the bench in favor of Josh Smith a guy who has Lebron's, Carmelo's and Thaddeus Young's points per possession efficiency in 2009-2010.

"After after a summer with Olajuwon, both Kobe Bryant and Josh Smith saw a significant dip in their eFG% around the rim this past season. 6-8 Josh Smith (PF) scored less often per possession and less efficiently in the post than many other forwards, including 6-8 LeBron James (SF), 6'10 Lamar Odom (PF), 6'10 Rashard Lewis (PF) and 6'8 Luol Deng (SF) to name a few.

"This doesn’t mean that they’re not learning, however, or that their time with Olajuwon had a negative impact on their post games. In fact, perhaps due to their summer workouts, both Bryant and Smith internalized Olajuwon’s advice and looked to be more active in the post last season. Bryant spent 19.4 percent of his time in the post, an unbelievably high number for a guard, which equaled the amount of time spent in the post by guards Dwyane Wade (6 percent), Brandon Roy (6.3 percent) and Vince Carter (7.1 percent) combined.
Smith worked 18.7 percent of his offense in the post, which was significantly more than the aforementioned forwards James (6.3 percent), Odom (9.4 percent), Lewis (12 percent) and Deng (6.9 percent). Carmelo w Ultimately, it’s quite common for a player to experience a drop in efficiency with a large increase in attempts in a certain area, highlighting what tends to be a negative relationship between frequency and efficiency." Also at work here may be Smith combating actual bigs like Gasol, Bosh and Garnett.

Ideally at 230-236 he has a higher usage and be able to attack more efficiently and stay out of foul trouble.
:::::
Jeff Teague/Joe Johnson/Josh Smith/Donatas Motiejunas*/Hasheem Thabeet
Kirk Hinrich/Travis Leslie*/(Marvin Williams)/Jordan Hill/Zaza Pachulia


Similar height = similar center of gravity. Similar wingspan often means similar ball control/ability to dunk/shoot over defenders in the post.
Oe a catapult's trajectory.

There are many different combinations of weight, height, and wingspan, standing reach and vertical as well.
For example

Here are similar

Height Wingspan Weight
Donatas Motiejunas 7'0" 6'11" 220 lbs.
Zach Randolph 6'10.25 6'11" 255
Blake Griffin 6'10" 6' 11.25" 248
Kevin Love 6' 9.5" 6' 11.25" 255
**Prospectus: 7'0 Boris Diaw/Zach Randolph. why he may fall: nonchalance.

#14 Atlanta Hawks Select: Donatas Motiejunas

Chris Paul 6' 1" 6' 4.25" 190
Jeff Teague 6' 1.5" 6' 7.5" 175
Derrick Rose 6'2.5" 6' 8" 196
**Prospectus: skies the limit

Jordan Hill 6'10.25 7'1.5" 232
Amare Stoudemire 6'10 7' 1.75" 233
**Prospectus: bootleg Amare, more fluid Al Horford, Amare-lite

James Harden 6' 5.25" 6' 10.75" 222
Dwyane Wade 6' 4.75" 6' 10.75" 222
Travis Leslie 6' 4.25" 6' 10.5" 205
Tony Allen 6' 4.25" 6' 9" 214
#23 Atlanta Hawks Select: Travis Leslie
**Prospectus: low center of gravity, explosive slasher, defend
///////////////

Jeff Teague/Joe Johnson/Josh Smith/Donatas Motiejunas*/Hasheem Thabeet
Kirk Hinrich/Travis Leslie*/(Marvin Williams)/Jordan Hill/Zaza Pachulia

model: 07-08 Celtics/'10-'11 Mavericks

[Ruhiel]

i say Josh Smith isn't going to be traded for a center like Bynum. Marvin isn't going to be traded based on lack of production + jumping the shark on $8 mil.

I like this trade even more than the Bogut trade because of the depth it gives us. Leslie's downside is Tony Allen. He has a low c.o.gravity and will has potential to draw doubles and then he'll make the pass out of them but teams are going for more sexy "consensus" picks.

Leslie said he feels he's better than Tony Allen and Motiejunas is criticized for his wingspan and maturity.

[myrak433]

I would do it

[theatlfan]

Can't say I understood this post - Very stream of consciousness. I did see the trade though and I can't say that I'm a fan. If I'm looking to trade Horford, then I'd expect a bigger package in return. Thabeet has had bust written all over him and needs to take a big step to be even a passable backup C; Hill can be a decent #3 "swing" big, but he isn't the kind of guy that makes me consider moving Horford; 2 mid-1sts in a weak draft doesn't excite me either.

I see that you're high on Motiejunas, but I'm not sure why. He was a hot prospect about 4 years ago when it was thought that he might get up to the 250# range and be a legit C. It never happened and now he's a offensive-only PF who looks like an Andrea Bargnani type with his current skillset, penchant for lackluster effort on D and on the boards, and physical size. Not that I think he would be bad and won't pan out (I don't know either way), but I don't see enough to be a centerpiece in any deal for Horford either.

Honestly, if we did deal either of Smoove or Horford, I'm not really looking for a 1 for 4 deal or even take an armload of prospects. I'd prefer quality over quantity. I'm not sure what the market for either would be, but any return would need to include guys that would have an immediate impact on the court. Trading either for an armload of prospects basically means we'll have to trade the other to rid ourselves of JJ in the very near future.

[johnny878]

what are the chances that one of those guys becomes an allstar center? probably like 0 percent lol.

thabeet is pretty much busted out allready.

[Ruhiel]

Can't say I understood this post - Very stream of consciousness. I did see the trade though and I can't say that I'm a fan. If I'm looking to trade Horford, then I'd expect a bigger package in return.

that's subjective. Horford is not a superstar or even second tier star. Centers are at a premium and
Honestly, if we did deal either of Smoove or Horford, I'm not really looking for a 1 for 4 deal or even take an armload of prospects. I'd prefer quality over quantity. I'm not sure what the market for either would be, but any return would need to include guys that would have an immediate impact on the court. Trading either for an armload of prospects basically means we'll have to trade the other to rid ourselves of JJ in the very near future.



1) moved Hinrich to 6th man status.
2) Took Marvin Williams who has been a liability on both ends out and put him on 6th man status.
3) Took Travis Leslie a 6'4 slasher with a low side of Tony Allen. Yes he's not as sexy on the surface as a shooter. But who was the last guy who was 6'4 and had a 6'10.5 wingspan? James Harden and Dwyane Wade
Next year the first center on the board is 200 lbs. Thabeet will never be Kareem Abdul-Jabaar but he is a person who's presence makes the offense react differently. As is we're looking at another year of no length on defense.
Thabeet is written off as a bust because he's 24 already and 7'3 and 275. Kareem was 7'2 and 260 lbs at most. Thabeet will never be as fluid as Kareem but he can be a low maintentance 10 ppg. Player who scores off of everything in 8 foot range, He has even shown a 15 foot jumpshot.
His problem is playing time. Chuck Hayes, Scola, Brad Miller, and Jordan Hill all saw more time at the 5 with the Rockets often going small.
The media is quick to call anybody who is a role player a bust. They should be calling guys who put up big numbers but don't produce wins bust. Thabeet is another Jeff Teague.


Alternatives:
Smith will get you a near 30 year old Kaman and leave you stuck with either Hinrich (small) Marvin (non-impact) as a starter.

Thabeet has had bust written all over him and needs to take a big step to be even a passable backup C; Hill can be a decent #3 "swing" big, but he isn't the kind of guy that makes me consider moving Horford; 2 mid-1sts in a weak draft doesn't excite me either.

I see that you're high on Motiejunas, but I'm not sure why. He was a hot prospect about 4 years ago when it was thought that he might get up to the 250# range and be a legit C.

no as is he's projected top 15.
However like Leslie (who you neglected to make) his proportions are very rare. The only "bigs" with a 6'11 wingspan are 6'11 Troy Murphy, 6'10 Blake Griffin, 6'9.5 Kevin Love. Motiejunas is 7'0 with a 6'11 wingspan. If you look at his video he shows awareness of size advantages/double teams/ability to play inside out against more physical players.
He is more he is a better trailer than Smith or Horford will ever be as D.M. can shoot the 2pt jump shot the 3 pt jump shot OR put it on the ground and create a shot for Joe in the corner or 6'8 sf Smith underneath or a 7'3 target underneath.
Bottom line he'll get people with his pump fake and get in the lane. He has a point guard's awareness and brings a new dynamic. Its called good all around fundamentals.

It never happened and now he's a offensive-only PF who looks like an Andrea Bargnani type with his current skillset, penchant for lackluster effort on D and on the boards, and physical size. Not that I think he would be bad and won't pan out (I don't know either way), but I don't see enough to be a centerpiece in any deal for Horford either.

again Horford is not a superstar and a chance at a (Dwyane Wade; Tony Allen) hybrid+ a 7 foot Z-Bo on stilts with point guard skills and awareness+ a guy who was called Amare-lite and not uncoicidentally has one quarter inch less on his wingspan/reach, 1 lb less on his weight upon being drafted, and has has only a quarter inch more height in shoes. Hill is a fluid pick and roll partner with an option to pop. And he isnt named Marreese Speights he actually pays attention to defense + and to top it off a low maintenance 7'3 Kendrick Perkins center.

where do you think Horford is taking his game? to the perimeter. For all the talk about Motiejunas being Bargnani (he's not, Bargnani is 7'1 250 with longer arms) Horford went out of his way to defend Amir Johnson (PF) and Smith was assigned to guard the 7'1 Bargnani.
If you watch tape you'll notice that Horford has always played the same heady way "Horford doesn't excel at any one thing" it's tough to find any weaknesses but if its one its his mechanical post game, and he shoots with increasing confidence: but he gets to the free throw line less than Joe Johnson, who not so coincidentally has
His career average is 3 free throw attempts in 33 minutes per game. He had 6 free throws in 5 games at power forward against Gibson, Boozer and Noah.
Horford is 24 years old and went to college for 3 years. He has peaked and is easily stopped by many combinations of height, strength. Once his jump shot is contested he has little to no ability to put the ball down and make an off balance play. Motiejunas and Hill do.
There are much more possibilities without Horford and 4 rare players. Horford and his accolades are appreciated but he does nothing particularly well and is ultimately a tweener who can't create. His value lies in the fact that he and Smith are relied on to secure the majority of rebounds with Williams being an albatross to the frontcourt.

[parson]

For Heaven's sake, let's trade Horford so he can't be a threat to Smoooooooooove.

This is getting knee-deep. Every day there seems to be another thread trading Horford -- and the deals are getting worse. Horford for Thabeet and Hill? Horford may have had a poor ending to this last season (health?) and Smith may have turned things around (temporary?), but Horford is still more valuable because he's still much more dependable than Smith.

"Horford doesn't excel at any one thing" ?
"He has peaked"?

Didn't he lead the NBA in mid-range shooting this year? Would that be considered excelling in one thing?

He wasn't hitting them in the seasons before, was he? Would that be considered growing, as opposed to peaking?

Is ranking 11th in rebounds in the NBA excelling?
How about 9th in the NBA in double doubles?

[johnny878]

lol this really is the least value we could possible get for an allstar C

houston trade ONE HALF OF A SEASON of Shane Battier for Thabeet and a 1st round pick. so the trade basically is

-half season value of shane battier
-1st round pick
-jordan hill

for al horford.

[ATL Boy]

For Heaven's sake, let's trade Horford so he can't be a threat to Smoooooooooove.

This is getting knee-deep. Every day there seems to be another thread trading Horford -- and the deals are getting worse. Horford for Thabeet and Hill? Horford may have had a poor ending to this last season (health?) and Smith may have turned things around (temporary?), but Horford is still more valuable because he's still much more dependable than Smith.

"Horford doesn't excel at any one thing" ?
"He has peaked"?

Didn't he lead the NBA in mid-range shooting this year? Would that be considered excelling in one thing?

He wasn't hitting them in the seasons before, was he? Would that be considered growing, as opposed to peaking?

Is ranking 11th in rebounds in the NBA excelling?
How about 9th in the NBA in double doubles?

+1, why would we trade a 2 time All-star for 2 players that will probably have 0 All-Star appearances among them at the end of their careers, and 2 picks in a weak draft. smh at this trade

[Geaux_Hawks]

For Heaven's sake, let's trade Horford so he can't be a threat to Smoooooooooove.

This is getting knee-deep. Every day there seems to be another thread trading Horford -- and the deals are getting worse. Horford for Thabeet and Hill? Horford may have had a poor ending to this last season (health?) and Smith may have turned things around (temporary?), but Horford is still more valuable because he's still much more dependable than Smith.

"Horford doesn't excel at any one thing" ?
"He has peaked"?

Didn't he lead the NBA in mid-range shooting this year? Would that be considered excelling in one thing?

He wasn't hitting them in the seasons before, was he? Would that be considered growing, as opposed to peaking?

Is ranking 11th in rebounds in the NBA excelling?
How about 9th in the NBA in double doubles?

I actually consider you a logical poster, but Why is everybody considered "Threats" to Josh Smith?!?! What does that even mean?!?! I am pretty sure nobody is saying this is Josh Smith team, and neither is it Al Horford's either.

I always knew he was a good rebounder, and yes he was amongst the league leaders in FG% Dbl-Dbl's, but in the defense of other posters, Horford has a 12.7 RP48, while guys like JJ Hickson, Chuck Hayes, Javale McGee, Dejuan Blair have somewhat better RP48 #'s but lesser RPG. I mean basically, he has his games where he will look like a superior rebounder and then others he will look just average. Then a lot of his mid-range shots are wide open in rhythm. He ought to nail them if he is any kind of shooter(Good reason to be mad at Josh).

With that said, he was always a good mid range shooter in college and abused the smaller F/C's in college, and those #'s translates to the league more often than none with only needing small changes of improvement. But since he has 3 years in college and 4 in the NBA getting quality playing time in those time frames, that pretty much shows he has peaked to the point of not "Significantly getting better". Yeah, he still can improve on some small things(Better rebounding technique, more toughness,heck even more range), but his low post moves need a major refinement.

[Geaux_Hawks]

As far as the trade goes, I like it, and really wouldn't mind it, but feel like we should get more with some kind of 4 way with Scola in Indiana; Milwaukee landing 15th pick, Hibbert, & Marvin; Bogut, Salmons, Thabeet, Hill, 14th pick(Donatas or Klay Thompson) in Atlanta; Horford & Zaza in Houston.

Teague/Hinrich
Joe/Salmons/Reggie Williams(FA)
Salmons/T-Mac(I just think with a reasonable deal, he can contribute)/Wilkins
Josh/Hill/Rolle
Bogut/Donatas/Thabeet

Man I would love that lineup. Finally, we would have more defensive presence as an overall team and in the paint. Not to mention the depth we would have.Hill will basically replace most of what Zaza would do, Donatas provides great offense, and Salmons & McGrady can platoon the 3 despite not having a real SF. Reggie Williams is a great scorer/perimeter shooter. Hinrich keeps that veteran leadership on the team. Rolle, Wilkins, & Thabeet gives us that Chicago styled depth.

[parson]

I actually consider you a logical poster, but Why is everybody considered "Threats" to Josh Smith?!?! What does that even mean?!?! I am pretty sure nobody is saying this is Josh Smith team, and neither is it Al Horford's either.

Horford for Thabeet/Hill is a prime example of dumping Horford at any price. Why would any ATL fan want to do that?

[Geaux_Hawks]

I actually consider you a logical poster, but Why is everybody considered "Threats" to Josh Smith?!?! What does that even mean?!?! I am pretty sure nobody is saying this is Josh Smith team, and neither is it Al Horford's either.

Horford for Thabeet/Hill is a prime example of dumping Horford at any price. Why would any ATL fan want to do that?

for those 2 straight up is dumb, yes I know, but with some extra tweaking, you could turn Horford into some nice depth(Hill,Picks, Thabeet) and a quality starting Center(Bogut or Hibbert).

[parson]

I would trade either one (Smith or Horford) for a 1st class big man - and nothing else. But I'd trade Smith 1st because Horford's a sure thing.

Plus, I dont think he's finished developing. That mid-range shot is a great example of his growth. He is working on his development: 2 years ago, he tried to add a drop-step to his game but the Centers he tried it against were just too strong. Maybe at PF, he'll try again. With an inside-out game, he'd rocket.

For Smith it's more confusing: did he "get it" at the end of the CHI series or will he still try to play on the perimeter? I don't mind it - most of the time - in the regular season, but in the 4th qtr and in the playoffs, he needs to do what works and leave the experiments for less demanding times.

[Ruhiel]

@Geaux Hawks, I haven't read the scouts takes but it seems they want the mythical sharpshooting European center.
Motiejunas can score from either position but the only guys with 6'11 wingspan are Blake Griffin, Kevin Love, Zach Randolph and Troy Murphy. And none of them are 7'0 230.
He's a natural 4 like Chris Bosh with a tighter handle.
Jordan Hill has showed he can guard and score at some center, but in NYK and HOU he never played PF full time.

B.J. Armstrong was an all-star, Milicic was projected as a 7'0 small forward and bowlegged Mike Bibby started 56 games over Teague and Hinrich cost a 1st round pick. idc about ESPN/coaches stamps of approval.
Horford got more 3 DPOY votes. Josh Smith got 1. So All Star labels are nothing.

1st class big man is a big man who can run and block shots and draw doubles. Dwight Howard is the only one who comes to mind.
Obviously anyone would trade for a PF/C like that. But if I told you you could beat Dwight Howard with Jason Collins and Zaza Pachulia you would never have believed anyone.
:::::
Marc Gasol is not a shot blocker and falls into the class of centers that can be nullified with speed. That's why I specifically included Jordan Hill. He's been buried ala Jeff Teague in NYK and HOU. would He's blue-collar and would be ideal next to Pachulia.
Thabeet is a 10 and 10 and 2+bpg guy per 36 minutes. Problems he has come from lack of p.t. and refs. He rarely gets in foul trouble but has been benched from day one.

Bynum is an 11 & 7 career guy. Thabeet is faster and can defend pick and rolls better.
But that doesnt show up in the box score.
Look at the Celtics when they won the championship. It doesn't take a 1st class PG or C to win.
At this point its not a Josh vs Horford thing, Josh is a top +/- guy, Horford isn't. Of course you would trade either of them for guys like Dwight in a vaccuum.
But this isn't a vaccuum. This is reality: Jason Collins intangibles were more valuable than Marvin's contributions. and he is a starter. Hinrich could be starting to push Marvin out the lineup and Joe to the 3. Joe is an even worse defensive rebounder than Williams.

There are no top flight big men in the league. There's Dwight Howard and then there's guys who can make Dwight Howard shoot over them and rebound. Jason Collins is that. Perkins is that. Hasheem Thabeet is that.
Motiejunas is as much a center as Blake Griffin is. If you haven't seen Blake play center its ugly. His small arms increase his jumping mechanics and shooting mechanics but he can't box out top centers.

Its not Horford or Thabeet for the win. Its Horford and Hinrich/Williams starting in a 40 win season versus Jeff Teague as sole ball handler and Williams being hidden on the bench unit bench of Travis Leslie/Hinrich backcourt

Plan B:
1st unit: Kirk Hinrich/Jeff Teague/Joe Johnson/Al Horford/Kaman or Haywood etc.
2nd unit: ?Pape Sy?/Iman Shumpert?/Damien Wilkins/Marvin Williams/Zaza Pachulia


Plan A:
1st unit: Jeff Teague/Joe Johnson/Josh Smith/Donatas Motiejunas/Hasheem Thabeet
2nd unit: Kirk Hinrich/Travis Leslie/Marvin Williams/Jordan Hill/Zaza Pachulia

[FCNATL85]

if trading Horford it would have to be as part of a package e.g. Horford- Marvin maybe for Nene and pick.
S&T Crawford for later pick to free cap space and go after SF FA (e.g.Chandler)

JT-JJ-Chandler-Smoothe-Nene
Hinrich-pick orJR-damian- FA- zaza
Sy- Gladyr- Collins or Armstrong or Kwame

[HMFFL]

The chances Hasheem Thabeet actually becomes a productive 5 are slim. Jordan Hill is going to be a career role players, because he has no heart, and lacks the passion that it takes to take his game to another level.

The picks are a gamble with this draft.

[Ruhiel]

The chances Hasheem Thabeet actually becomes a productive 5 are slim.

Depends on what you call productive. 11 & 7 on a winning team at the center is productive.
Do you think Brook Lopez would average 20 points on a winning team? Bynum?
No, he'd be making up for the lack of scoring else where=more touches. We need to look for points elsewhere. Bynum: 11 & 7 career avg. Perkins: 10 & 6.
Thabeet averaged 21% DRB%. TS% .605,
Horford: .594 and it falls every year in the playoffs.

Jordan Hill is going to be a career role players, because he has no heart, and lacks the passion that it takes to take his game to another level.

His PER is higher than Taj Gibson. He has to be doing something right. 13 mpg under D'Antoni. He is within a quarter inch of Amare's height and will probably never reach his level, but he plays better defense though and shows ability to knock down the midrange, pump fake and drive and some of not surprisingly some of Amare's ability to dribble one way low switch sides when that 6'10 guy moves his feet and spin back and score.
[youtube] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21Yc_udTXDM[/youtube]
But he has the same rebounding rate as Al Horford and Gibson.
Some people say Pau and Dirk have no heart he also has a ring. They just make certain things look easier and are not equipped to do some things, like defend JJ Barea off the pick and roll .

Horford bad wingspan to height for a big man=limited post moves and extension in the paint and a slow, low jumpshot release. Low # of blocks. Amare has exactly one inch height advantage and had the same vert at one point believe it or not. That extra inch of wingspan is the only difference.
Not many 6'10 players have a 7'1.75 wingspan. Danny Granger has a 7'1.5, Richard Jefferson as well.
If wingspan = part of a physical toolbox then Amare has small forward tools and it shows in his scoring versatility.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBhX9zLktNU

::::
Tall Players with the wingspan of someone 6'11.
Motiejunas. Troy Murphy. Zach Randolph. Blake Griffin (6'11.25). Kevin Love (6'11.5). Chris Kaman (6'11.75)
compact wingspan on a big man is generally seen as a bad thing but in rare cases it can be good.
Compact quickness fluidity combined with height for leverage and a high shooting release.

a faster, taller Troy Murphy/Zach Randolph? at the cost of only having Dirk's rebounding and defense at times. But next to Thabeet? Jordan Hill who has Amare's tools and puts up Taj Gibson numbers, 2 years younger with more potential, off the bench with Pachulia???
4 players for Al Horford who is a mediocre rebounder?
Sign me $$$$ up.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E37MBYJ-w7k[/youtube]

The 7'3 CENTER (26mpg)
PER ORB% DRB% TRB% BLK% TOV% USG% ORtg DRtg
13mpg*
Thabeet 10.5 11.2 20.9 16.1 7.7 20.0 10.7 113 105
career
Perkins 12.7 10.4 22.3 16.5 4.9 23.2 14.8 103 101

Thabeet never started from day one.
and Perkins numbers are even worse the year the Cs one. Ray Allen Garnett Rondo + Pierce taking attention off of him boosted his efficiency.
Garnett covered a lot of that teams deficiencies as Smith does for this team.


If Perkins was drafted 2nd he would be a "bust".
He played 25 mpg in the championship.
Then they put another role player in and another and another (James Posey, Eddie House, Leon Powe, Glen Davis).
He's a starting role player and starter.

H.T. finishes in the paint gives us a high% finisher athleticism translates to high% garbage buckets and another mobile lane clogger against the Bulls.
Defends the pick and roll with speed at 7'3. No he's not Kareem.


Jason Collins is labeled an extreme bust but he helped us defeat Dwight Howard. Thabeet is faster, more athletic and just as low maintenance as Collins with twice the rebound rate that allows others get in transition.

Perkins averaged 28 and 16 and 7 blocks in high school.
If he were drafted #2 then he would be a bust. Oh well he plays defense converts high percentage dunks and layups He has a ring.


17 mpg of Jason Collins helped us limit Howard's double teams and switches, rebounds and tip outs. Took up space in the paint. In limited minutes Thabeet has shown he can contest Howard better than Collins and makes it even harder to score for Howard. Asik look like a midget crashing against him and moves his feet well enough to make Noah look like the 235 PF he is.
Rockets felt they need scorers so they put Brad Miller out there. Miller's scoring may be higher but his foot speed and defense may be worse than Collins. Oh well, Bibby beat out Teague for 56 games.

:::::::
Thabeet, Pachulia is a great C rotation {in the East Playoffs}. Thabeet is a solid 8 and 8 with Smith (17 & 9, SF) and Motiejunas (4ppquarter=16ppg, Dirk like 7rpg).
::::
Hill gives up ten pounds to Horford but offensvely is better with more extension. Horford is exposed as a tweener in the playoffs.
Taj Gibson showed what athleticism can do to Horford in the playoffs.
Horf can go outside but he can't drive and has a low reach and shot release that lets people contest his shot. Josh Smith has the same reach which is why the same players can contest their shots. Smith has small forward size and speed to try and cross them. But Horford's main attribute is bulk which does not help on the perimeter. Plus he's a model citizen.

[Ruhiel]

Here's extended video of Thabeet
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nXlIx6KxJA[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRFftJqL2xk[/youtube]
Dwight had 27 points but more fouls than Thabeet and is one of the few guys that can occupy him.
Grizz went small with Darrell Arthur+Randolph and ended up getting blown out by Vince's post ups and isos and Orlando's depth. Crazy like 6 guys from that team's depth are gone and a D12 team is vulnerable.

[evildallas]

I can only assume this is a step towards collecting all the #2 flops on one team and I look forward to your proposal to get Darko from the Timberwolves.

Trading 1 good player for 4 mediocre players isn't a recipe for success. I understand that Al's not getting much love right now because of a weak post season, but when you stop to evaluate over a greater sample size then I think you'll realize that this idea is selling him cheap.